Any current Stax O2 owners heard the Audeze LCD-2?
Jul 8, 2010 at 11:43 PM Post #91 of 105
Pabbi, how does it sound? Did you even bother to try? No wonder theres no love for this amp around here.

Lunatique, another option is rudistor, which got mixed bag review in general. I personally tried the nx-3 which is their entry level dynamic SS and not impressed
 
Jul 9, 2010 at 12:34 PM Post #92 of 105
Quote:
I listened to the 007MKII with the 717 and that was my first experience with electrostat setups. I loved it very much and has converted me. So exactly how does the 717 color the sound? Too warm? Too dark? Not articulate enough? And just how much better than the 717 is the KGSS or BHSE? And I don't mean in audiophile hyperbole terms, but objective, logical, and fair terms.
 


The 717 has this warm texture which goes on top of everything (i.e. is not neutral) in a similar way which the HE90's bass always sounds the same, regardless of what you are playing. 
 
When you reach this point in amps you are pouring in a lot of money for a less and less reward.  This is given but what you get is the ability of the amp to step aside and let the headphones do their thing.  This means cleaner sound over all so if the recording has lean bass, that's what you are going to get.  That's about it really...
 
Quote:
Pabbi, how does it sound? Did you even bother to try? No wonder theres no love for this amp around here.

Lunatique, another option is rudistor, which got mixed bag review in general. I personally tried the nx-3 which is their entry level dynamic SS and not impressed


I don't think that amp ever worked right, just the low gain and distortion which is what you'd expect from that circuit. 
 
As for Rudistor, the prices he charges for what is the most basic ESP amp you can build are utterly dumb.  The build quality is quite bad too and the bias supply's used will destroy your headphones. 
 
Jul 9, 2010 at 2:45 PM Post #93 of 105


Quote:
The 717 has this warm texture which goes on top of everything (i.e. is not neutral) in a similar way which the HE90's bass always sounds the same, regardless of what you are playing. 
 
When you reach this point in amps you are pouring in a lot of money for a less and less reward.  This is given but what you get is the ability of the amp to step aside and let the headphones do their thing.  This means cleaner sound over all so if the recording has lean bass, that's what you are going to get.  That's about it really...

Thank you for clarifying that. So based on what you said previously, the KGSS is significantly more neutral than the 717 ("significant" as in it requires no concentration at all to clearly hear the difference), and just a tad less articulate in the bass than the BHSE ("a tad" being the key here--it would required concentration to hear this difference)? If so, then the KGSS makes a lot more sense to me since its price is acceptable.
 
When I listened to the 717 with the 007MKII, I really didn't hear anything I didn't like in the bass (for example, I like the bass of the D7000 very much, and what I heard of the Stax rig came very close to matching the substantial and punchy bass of the D7000). So perhaps that slight bass-emphasis is a good thing for me?
 
The only thing I was surprised by was the overall darker sound of the treble, and how it was amazingly detailed and textured, despite being the darkest treble I've ever heard compared to dynamic headphones. That's not a 717 coloration, is it?
 
 
Jul 9, 2010 at 3:23 PM Post #94 of 105
Listen to a 717 after you have spent some time on either a KGSS or a Blue Hawaii and the effect is quite obvious.  I have seen the 717 and it's quite clear that this sound effect was deliberate and in theory the 717 could even be modified to get rid of it but it wouldn't be an easy fix.  I'm trying to buy a cheap 727 for the same reason to see if KG and I can't modify it to be more linear to have a cheap SS alternative for people to buy. 
 
You might like the extra bass, you certainly wouldn't be the first. 
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  Now with the Mk2 there has crept up an issue as Stax has altered the design from the very first units and plugged the ports making the bass more like the Mk1 SR-007.  I had a few of the very first A/Mk2 units and they had the ports open which made them sound rather poor to my ears.  This resulted in me inventing a mod to make them sound more like the Mk1.  Fast forward to CanJam where I heard two Mk2's which both had the ports closed and the bass was back to normal.   What they did I don't know (I didn't want to rip the earpads off at the show) nor when the change took place. 
 
With the SR-007 you can always tailor the phones to have more or less bass simply by adjusting the arc's over your head.  Decrease the pressure for more bass and increase it for tighter bass control.  For instance the arc's on my set are nothing like the stock unit, there is no break over the earpieces and it makes a tall steep arc. 
 
The treble issue is due to lack of power in the 717,  hook the phones up to a Blue Hawaii and this goes away.  The KGSS doesn't quite eliminate it but it gets close enough for my liking.  The KGSSHV will be a lot closer to the BH.Speaking of the KGSSHV, I just saw the simulated data for the current version of the circuit and it is beyond excellent. 
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Jul 11, 2010 at 2:34 AM Post #96 of 105
I know it's heresy, but I preferred the Exstata SS over the KGSS. Certainly the KGSS is the more neutral of the two and brings out the latent treble of the O2; but the Exstata - although darkening the sound - has a beautiful liquid/organic quality which makes instruments sound very real and natural, though without that last bit of 'air'. Hard to describe, I'm afraid. The bass is certainly more present with the exstata, though it is never unnaturally loud IMHO. I would say that the Exstata is 'good enough' - particularly for those on a budget.
 
Still want to hear the KGSSHV though :)
 
Jul 11, 2010 at 5:53 AM Post #97 of 105
Neutrality isn't for everybody but I for one prefer my amps as neutral as is possible as I want to hear what the headphones sound like, not the amps. 
 
The KGSS though isn't that much more expensive to build then the exstata.  You certainly won't need 50 J271's (only way for me to get a good quad) which will also be true of the HV.  You can match to your hearts delight but it won't be needed. 
 
Quote:
How does the 727 compare?
 


When I had it a couple of years ago I absolutely hated it, non linear, colored and quite frankly it just sounds odd.  Turns out this is the general concensus wrt this amp and it's why I'm buying a used one to see if what Stax did wrong. 
 
Jul 12, 2010 at 1:27 PM Post #98 of 105
I won't have much to add to comparing the O2 and the LCD2 until I have another amp for the Stax, but the Audeze just keep getting better in the sense that improvements in the signal are duly reflected by the phones. In fact I don't really know what these phones sound like - so far, every shortcoming that might have been attributable to the phones turns out to have been somewhere else in the chain. I've been listening on my friend's DIY point-to-point SS amp for a couple of weeks - it gives instruments and voices an almost pinpoint clarity compared to other amps I've heard. Then last night I swapped my older silver Kimber interconnects (1030s) for his DIY silver interconnects - significant improvements in air and timbral complexity/layering, especially noticeable on piano and cymbals, listening again to "Yesterdays" by Patricia Barber (on her Nightclub album, MoFI SACD). At his place, through his new tube amp, Marantz SACD player (with custom output stage), and with proper power conditioning, that track sounded incredibly full and rich. With these phones though I think I prefer the quickness and believable detail of SS, which they deliver in spades, to the extra luxuriance of tubes.
 
I'm not hearing the problems Spritzer has referred to (non-linear or not fully-controlled bass, a touch of mid-range hardness, disjointed soundstage). 
 
IMO these phones are indeed a valuable reference tool for recording, and a pleasure to listen to for the music I like (classical, jazz, rock, world music, etc.), with the caveat that to get the best out of them you'll need to upgrade from the stock cable (as mentioned, I've been listening with a customized Stax O2 Mk1 cable).
 
Jul 13, 2010 at 3:51 AM Post #99 of 105
To add to my earlier comments, I've been listening tonight to the O2 again using the more resolving DIY silver interconnect for the first time. As expected, it didn't really change my conclusion with highly dynamic material like the drum solo on "Yesterdays" - on which the O2 (with my DIY all-tube amp using 6SN7 output tubes) still can't resolve, for example, the sharp attack of the snare thwacks anywhere near as well as the Audeze, and makes the piano (which is being played loud during the drum solo) sound somehow too generalized and over-reverberant compared to the Audeze, as if the mics were positioned too far from the strings to catch as much of their play of overtones. If this is an artifact of inadequate power then I will re-evaluate when a more powerful amp comes my way. However, on listening to the following track, a guitar- rather than piano-accompanied ballad called "Just for a Thrill", the relative merits of the two phones show themselves more evenly divided, and here I personally prefer the O2 (at least sometimes!). The Audeze, while seemingly more clearly representing the track's spatial detail (differentiating the slightly greater or longer reverb on the voice from that on the instruments for example), is a bit more clinical-sounding through the solid-state amp, and even through the tube amp it doesn't have quite the liquidity and delicacy and also the "size" of the O2's representation of sound in space. By size I mean a sense of the pervasive space or volume of a room that somehow situates the listener in relation to the performance itself in a very beguiling and intimate way. Exactly how much of all this is due to the different amps and how much to the inherent sound of the Audeze and the O2 I can't really say, nor can I say which is truest to the recording. If I could hazard a guess, based on how I imagine it was mic'd and mixed, it would be that neither phone is exactly right, that the "truth" lies somewhere in between. So once again it comes down to personal taste. If the O2 is indeed adding its signature to everything, that would sometimes work in the music's favor for many listeners, but not always. If the Audeze has a signature I think it is more subtractive - the Audeze might not be capturing the last wisp or two of airiness, but then again that might be largely an electrostatic coloration. (I hear even more of something like the same thing on my Lambda Signature, but it does this by exaggerating the presence range, which the O2 does not; OTOH the Lambda does better at resolving detail on the "Yesterdays" drum solo, probably  because it has less bass along with more highs.)
 
For me the Audeze are excellent close-up phones - if you like sitting in the first row and reveling in dynamics, power and detail (as I do most of the time) they can dazzle like sunlight glinting on rippling water. And I (tentatively) think they more accurately represent a greater range of music and qualities in music. The O2 have their own kind of subtle detail, and can create a laid-back sort of moonlit ambiance that subjectively seems absolutely right, even magical. At this point I wouldn't want to be without either of them.
 
Jul 13, 2010 at 6:59 AM Post #101 of 105
Great write-up tonereef. I can't wait to compare both in the future myself.
 
Sep 1, 2010 at 3:17 AM Post #102 of 105
The picture says 2006 on the Mcalister amp.  I purchased a one-off PP-Triode amp from him about the same time for about $700.  I had to renovate, remount, re-wire, tighten, straighten, bend.....you get the picture, but after i was finally done, it sounded gorgeous and still does.  The bias still drifts, but what the heck, call it a learning experience.  Peter promises that he has cleaned up his act, by the way, but other than hear one of his amps a couple of years or so ago at RMAF, who knows what the construction looks like. 
 
Sep 1, 2010 at 8:12 PM Post #103 of 105
I have a T2 I use with my Omegas and yes it gets hot but its a gross exageration to say it fries eggs and melts that just B******s
 
However; this is the ONLY amplifier I have found that can adequately drive the Omegas.  Spritzer is absolutey spot on here.  For me the performance difference is like night and day, they just come alive when using this amp.  I've tried all the other Stax amps and nothing compares either in the old or new range.  The power supply on the T2 alone is hernia inducing!  I've never heard the BHSE or the DIY SRM-T2, but if they come close to the original T2 then they should be the amp of choice for anyone who wants to really hear what the Omegas are capable of
 
Quote:
The remark was directed at the original T2.

 
 
The original T2 either melts or fries your eggs for a year... and then melts.
 



 
Sep 2, 2010 at 4:27 AM Post #104 of 105
Measure the the top panel of the T2, mine was about 65°C which as it happens is hot enough to fry an egg (about 60°C). 
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   The T2 is a nice amp but it simply doesn't have the power of the BH or T2DIY due to the chassis design (as in Stax couldn't run the EL34's at full power) and the PSU is also a bad joke in comparison to what's used on the DIY T2.  That doesn't mean it isn't more powerful then almost every other amp out there and that is sounds lovely but with the DIY version we were simply able to do things properly without ever caring about how much it would cost. Add in better chassis design, far better PCB layout, better parts and we have a winner. 
 
Sep 2, 2010 at 12:32 PM Post #105 of 105
I would love an answer, and i have asked the question a number of times.
 
On the monster speaker amps stax fully regulated just about everything.
Same thing with the Dac, the phono cart, and the preamp.
 
But they do not regulate the power supplies for any of the electrostatic
amps except for the srm-300/310.
 
My best guess is due to size and heat issues.
 

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