[Solude]

Should add, own and like their O2 

 
When I got my O2 in 2006 I had gone through every top dynamic available and none even remotely approached the O2 in any area.  Fast forward to 2010 and we have the Senn 800 and Beyer T1 which I haven't heard.  Now the Audeze LCD-2 which many 800/T1 owners are gaga for.
 
So any current, happy, O2 owners heard the LCD-2?  How do they compare, contrast?

 

[spritzer]

I spent quite a while listening to the LCD-2 at CJ, ditto for the T1 and I've spent a lot of time with the HD800 since it was released.  The T1 is clearly the worst of the lot, it's not even a high end headphone IMO.  Hell, it isn't the best headphone Beyer have ever made with a fully functioning ET1000 being far more neutral.  The HD800 is a bit of a mixed bag for me, it sounds ok but not good enough to warrant the high price.  Side by side comparisons against the SR-007 (the HD-800 using an Auditor and the SR-007 using my ES-X) shows just how inferior they are, disjointed bass, lack of presence in the midrange, uneven top end and the list goes on.  The HE60 is a far better headphone in every way. 
 
As for the LCD-2, it is a good headphone but not great.  The bass is too strong and not linear enough for my tastes.  The soundstage is too uneven and can't quite make the headphones disappear like the really good ones can.  Now I'm not a fan of the washed out Sennheiser soundstage but it was just too disjointed.  There was also something off with the midrange but I wouldn't go as far as call them nasal as some have done.  Most likely some resosnace rearing its ugly head which is nothing that bothers me given that most 'stats have something like that.  I for one am going to buy a LCD-2 but I'll wait until the FS section is filled with them once the next FOTM rolls into town...

 

[Solude]

 
[size=medium]

Huh four hours later and no rebuttal.
 
Thanks for the impressions Sritzer.  So MORE bassy then the O2, definitely not the area I would change with my current setup.  I can't say I'm terribly surprised given the research I did on orthos today that pretty much boils down to a modified dynamic to mimic electrostatic movement but tied to amplifiers that are readily available.  But its a compromized design.  Heavier diaphragm, only one "stator" etc.
 
I'll also probably still get one just to be sure and given their short supply shouldn't be too hard to dump it if the O2 proves to still be my cup of tea.
 
As for the T1/800 I would be very cautious about the T1 because the 880 was so dry and distant and JaZZ who's ears I trust had to mod his 800 to live with them.  Modding and I don't get along so they're out.
 
Completely unrelated, my Concerto came in today.  Its so tiny compared to my KGSS =)  But until I get the LCD-2 I only have Shure SE420 to listen to which are fine Zune cans but not home ones =(
​

[/size]

 

[momomo6789]

Quote:

Should add, own and like their O2 

 
When I got my O2 in 2006 I had gone through every top dynamic available and none even remotely approached the O2 in any area.  Fast forward to 2010 and we have the Senn 800 and Beyer T1 which I haven't heard.  Now the Audeze LCD-2 which many 800/T1 owners are gaga for.
 
So any current, happy, O2 owners heard the LCD-2?  How do they compare, contrast?

 
i own both but didnt get any chance to use them side by side and mostly used lcd-2 off a udac.

 

[tonereef]

I agree about the T1 and the HD800 in relation to the O2, but disagree about the LCD2, which I've owned for a couple of weeks now. It is an excellent headphone but, as I've said in the main LCD-2 thread, the stock cable compromises the sound in ways that sound like what you're reporting - you will have to upgrade it to make the comparison fair (which I have done, in fact I'm using a spare/replaced O2 Mk 1 cable). Or did you hear the Audeze with the ALO cable?
 
I hesitate to make comparisons because my amps for the two phones are very different. For the Stax I have a custom-built T1 design using better parts which sounds quite a lot more open than the T1. For the Audeze I have tried a couple of custom SS amps - the best is a no-compromise discrete design, and fed by it the Audeze sounds quite amazing.
 
I know this may not be very helpful, but in any case, with this equipment, to my ears the Audeze sounds more accurate and "colorful"/richer as regards timbre, faster and more dynamic, and considerably more detailed than the O2. Tighter and deeper bass, more extended highs, very coherent presentation overall, very low distortion.
 
I've lived with the Stax for 4-5 years and have loved their sound (and still do, for classical music especially). But if I really want to know what's on a recording (so far I haven't listened to vinyl, only CDs and SACDs, through my modified Sony XA777ES), and just for the pure pleasure of listening deeper into the music, I'm going to the Audeze.
 
Also FWIW, two frineds here have heard my Audeze for short periods. One is my amp-building friend, who doesn't own the O2 but really likes his Lambdas (I think he has the Pros). The other is an engineer who has used the Orpheus for a number of recording sessions (he doesn't own them) and who commented that the Audeze pretty accurately represent the sound of a 300 voice choir he recently recorded (and this was through a couple of less good hp amps he owns - I can verify that the sound was nowhere near as good as through my friend's amp). Both of them are buying the Audeze.
 
I've listened in a store to all the other top-of-the-line dynamic competition, the HD800 with Cardas cables, through different amps, so not under controlled conditions, but none of them convinced me they were close to rivalling the O2. Unless the best amps for the Stax are a lot better than mine, the Audeze certainly does that at least.
 

Quote:

I spent quite a while listening to the LCD-2 at CJ, ditto for the T1 and I've spent a lot of time with the HD800 since it was released.  The T1 is clearly the worst of the lot, it's not even a high end headphone IMO.  Hell, it isn't the best headphone Beyer have ever made with a fully functioning ET1000 being far more neutral.  The HD800 is a bit of a mixed bag for me, it sounds ok but not good enough to warrant the high price.  Side by side comparisons against the SR-007 (the HD-800 using an Auditor and the SR-007 using my ES-X) shows just how inferior they are, disjointed bass, lack of presence in the midrange, uneven top end and the list goes on.  The HE60 is a far better headphone in every way. 
 
As for the LCD-2, it is a good headphone but not great.  The bass is too strong and not linear enough for my tastes.  The soundstage is too uneven and can't quite make the headphones disappear like the really good ones can.  Now I'm not a fan of the washed out Sennheiser soundstage but it was just too disjointed.  There was also something off with the midrange but I wouldn't go as far as call them nasal as some have done.  Most likely some resosnace rearing its ugly head which is nothing that bothers me given that most 'stats have something like that.  I for one am going to buy a LCD-2 but I'll wait until the FS section is filled with them once the next FOTM rolls into town...

 

[Solude]

Quote:

As for the LCD-2, it is a good headphone but not great.  The bass is too strong and not linear enough for my tastes.  The soundstage is too uneven and can't quite make the headphones disappear like the really good ones can.  Now I'm not a fan of the washed out Sennheiser soundstage but it was just too disjointed.  There was also something off with the midrange but I wouldn't go as far as call them nasal as some have done.  Most likely some resosnace rearing its ugly head which is nothing that bothers me given that most 'stats have something like that.  I for one am going to buy a LCD-2 but I'll wait until the FS section is filled with them once the next FOTM rolls into town...

 
Is this bolded section about the LCD-2 or the Senn 800?
 

 

[Solude]

I believe in cables, I have lots of first hand experience with power, digital, speaker, inter and headphone cables but I've never had a cable change modify the core sound of a piece.  Minor changes to this and that, open this, clean that but nothing as sweeping as correcting a resonance or an upper mid peak.
 
As for the two amps, I have to assume your goal for each is the best possible sound with a particular sound in mind.  Unless you are saying the T1 or the SS aren't doing it for you... its fair to compare.
 
I believe the cable used is a Canare 20 gauge star quad top to bottom.  Definitely not your garden variety lamp wire.  That and fair being fair... if your $945 reference headphone is crippled by the cable, ugh.

 

[Solude]

 
Quote:

i own both but didnt get any chance to use them side by side and mostly used lcd-2 off a udac.

 Not asking for full blown exhaustive review just a comparison of how they match up.  What do you like about the LCD-2, what do you think the O2 still does better?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

I agree about the T1 and the HD800 in relation to the O2, but disagree about the LCD2, which I've owned for a couple of weeks now. It is an excellent headphone but, as I've said in the main LCD-2 thread, the stock cable compromises the sound in ways that sound like what you're reporting - you will have to upgrade it to make the comparison fair (which I have done, in fact I'm using a spare/replaced O2 Mk 1 cable). Or did you hear the Audeze with the ALO cable?
 
I hesitate to make comparisons because my amps for the two phones are very different. For the Stax I have a custom-built T1 design using better parts which sounds quite a lot more open than the T1. For the Audeze I have tried a couple of custom SS amps - the best is a no-compromise discrete design, and fed by it the Audeze sounds quite amazing.
 
I know this may not be very helpful, but in any case, with this equipment, to my ears the Audeze sounds more accurate and "colorful"/richer as regards timbre, faster and more dynamic, and considerably more detailed than the O2. Tighter and deeper bass, more extended highs, very coherent presentation overall, very low distortion.
 
I've lived with the Stax for 4-5 years and have loved their sound (and still do, for classical music especially). But if I really want to know what's on a recording (so far I haven't listened to vinyl, only CDs and SACDs, through my modified Sony XA777ES), and just for the pure pleasure of listening deeper into the music, I'm going to the Audeze.
 
Also FWIW, two frineds here have heard my Audeze for short periods. One is my amp-building friend, who doesn't own the O2 but really likes his Lambdas (I think he has the Pros). The other is an engineer who has used the Orpheus for a number of recording sessions (he doesn't own them) and who commented that the Audeze pretty accurately represent the sound of a 300 voice choir he recently recorded (and this was through a couple of less good hp amps he owns - I can verify that the sound was nowhere near as good as through my friend's amp). Both of them are buying the Audeze.
 
I've listened in a store to all the other top-of-the-line dynamic competition, the HD800 with Cardas cables, through different amps, so not under controlled conditions, but none of them convinced me they were close to rivalling the O2. Unless the best amps for the Stax are a lot better than mine, the Audeze certainly does that at least.
 

Quote:

 

The only good Stax amp (short of the rare SRM-T2) is the 717 and even that is highly colored compared to its KGSS cousin.  Something like the Blue Hawaii is giant leap forwards and the SR-007 can sound even better as our DIY SRM-T2 proved at CanJam.  The T1 hasn't got a chance in hell of driving the SR-007, better parts or not.  Now if you would scrap the PSU and the output stage and use the same ones as we used in the DIY T2 then it would be a different story. 
 
I'm sure the LCD-2 improves with a better amp too but I only tried it with the best designs present at the meet and bypassed all the crap. 
 
Quote:

 
Is this bolded section about the LCD-2 or the Senn 800?
 

LCD-2. 

 
Quote:

I believe in cables, I have lots of first hand experience with power, digital, speaker, inter and headphone cables but I've never had a cable change modify the core sound of a piece.  Minor changes to this and that, open this, clean that but nothing as sweeping as correcting a resonance or an upper mid peak.
 
As for the two amps, I have to assume your goal for each is the best possible sound with a particular sound in mind.  Unless you are saying the T1 or the SS aren't doing it for you... its fair to compare.
 
I believe the cable used is a Canare 20 gauge star quad top to bottom.  Definitely not your garden variety lamp wire.  That and fair being fair... if your $945 reference headphone is crippled by the cable, ugh.

Ditto, cables make a small difference at best and the sweaping statements about them completely changing a system are just utter BS.  People should also look inside those pretty cables and see just how badly they are made as only handful of the MOT's actually know how to solder, let alone do it properly. 
 
As for the LCD-2 cable, it's the ergonomics which bother me and not how it "sounds".  The cable is just to thick and heavy (even compared to the sheer mass of copper found inside the Stax Wide PC-OCC cable) and the cable was dragging over the top of my shoulders.  Very, very annoying. 

 

[Solude]

I keep going over Tyl's graphs from CanJam and can't help but wonder if the LCD-2 is just an LCD-1 in a new casing.  The two measure as the same right across the board.  Also why oh why are the Stax never measured.  They were there, why no measurements =(

 

[DarKu]

Quote:

I know this may not be very helpful, but in any case, with this equipment, to my ears the Audeze sounds more accurate and "colorful"/richer as regards timbre, faster and more dynamic, and considerably more detailed than the O2. Tighter and deeper bass, more extended highs, very coherent presentation overall, very low distortion.
 
I've lived with the Stax for 4-5 years and have loved their sound (and still do, for classical music especially). But if I really want to know what's on a recording (so far I haven't listened to vinyl, only CDs and SACDs, through my modified Sony XA777ES), and just for the pure pleasure of listening deeper into the music, I'm going to the Audeze.

Thank you very much!
Can't wait for my own pair of LCD-2
 
spritzer you bash all headphones I know of except Stax, I strongly disagree with something you've said about HD800..

 

[bozebuttons]

Quote:

I keep going over Tyl's graphs from CanJam and can't help but wonder if the LCD-2 is just an LCD-1 in a new casing.  The two measure as the same right across the board.  Also why oh why are the Stax never measured.  They were there, why no measurements =(

Tylls measurement equipment was not able to do electrostatic headphones at the meet.

 

[Solude]

Isn't the measuring equipment a head?

 

[dreamwhisper]

I'm skeptical of anyone's comparisons who haven't heard the O2's driven by a KGSSHV or BHSE, the two contenders for top 007 amp, the T2 being more elusve as a difficult DIY effort.
 
Orthodynamic headphones I've heard so far the YH100 and Thunderpants (Thunderpants, according to some orthoheads, being not far behind LCD2 in orthoworld) have an issue with sounding compressed and losing detail at points in the music when a lot is going on.
At first they may seem to have a more transparent midrange, or seem more detailed than 007, but their inner detail and layering isn't consistent throughout the whole song.
Maybe this is what spritzer is referring to when he calls the LCD2 soundstage disjointed.
 
Although I haven't heard LCD2, I feel I should give my $.02. (and not just back the headphone that some people seem to want to see win just because it's less expensive)

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

spritzer you bash all headphones I know of except Stax, I strongly disagree with something you've said about HD800.

Yeah sure, I've never been critical of a Stax headphone.  

 
As for the HD800, go listen to a 100% functional HE60 (i.e. recently rebuilt) off a good amp and hear just how much better the HD800 could have been.