[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork It is my feeling that the emphasis placed on replacement cables for the HD600/650 is GREATLY overstated. $240 is a ridiculous amount to pay for a replacement cable for $300 headphones. I would sooner spend that on a superior amp / source / music. The difference is minimal compared to any of these.

Amen to that.....unless you have all of the above and just need to upgrade the cable as the last option, otherwise, i agree 100%....

 

[Swampwalker]

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but I will respectfully disagree. I just bought a Silver Dragon for my HD-650s, and I can report a pretty significant improvement, esp. noticable in teh bass, but goes from top to bottom, IMO. Driven by an RKV, I don't think anyone can call these laid back now (most common criticism of Senns).

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampwalker Not wanting to hijack this thread, but I will respectfully disagree. I just bought a Silver Dragon for my HD-650s, and I can report a pretty significant improvement, esp. noticable in teh bass, but goes from top to bottom, IMO. Driven by an RKV, I don't think anyone can call these laid back now (most common criticism of Senns).

This may be true, but any other major change in the system, equivalent to that amount of money, unless you already have the rest, will result in a more noticaeble change, this is what we are trying ot say. Sometimes we find people that get an HD650, get an aftermarket cable of 300 bux to run the headphone from a mint amp with a 150.00 CDplayer, or evne less, my question is, why not spending more in the CDplayer instead or the amp, or any other better source, that will give you a more noticeable improvment for sure, than the best of the cables....

I will use your same equipment as an example, if you leave the HD650 stock, and sell the RKV, and get an RP33 for example (and just to mention one amp that will fit in that difference more or less, but it could be any other, and knowing that the RKV is a little rolled off on the highs, while the RP33 is not or maybe a PreHead, etc....) with that little more, I can asure you that the change will be more noticeable to your ears, than the one offered by the cable...

 

[rsaavedra]

[OT]Actually I was inaccurate, my Mobius cost was more around $215, can't recall exactly, but it was the introductory price they had for a while. Anyway, once Raaj asked me whether I thought it was worth the cost. I answered that it depends. For the largest % of people that use headphones in general more than likely not. For some headphone-philes and perfectionists, e.g. many headfiers, more likely yes. I don't regret buing it at all, they do make a difference in the sound, and I like the difference they make. I also liked the Equinox that I heard in a FL meet, but I thought I liked the Zu slightly better overall.[/OT]

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork It is my feeling that the emphasis placed on replacement cables for the HD600/650 is GREATLY overstated. $240 is a ridiculous amount to pay for a replacement cable for $300 headphones. I would sooner spend that on a superior amp / source / music. The difference is minimal compared to any of these.

So you think selling a source and buying a new one that was $240 more would be a bigger improvement than upgrading the cables on the HD650s? I'm not saying one way or the other, i'm just curious. The only 650s i've ever heard were without the cable upgrade and i did notice the veil and boringness alot of people seems to mention. I really wondered if a cable would fix the problem.

But even then, you're still talking about a $550 headphone that is widely considered the absolute best for > $1300. That's a pretty strong selling point. Though with his kind of money to spend, i think it may serve him best to pay the extra money and get the best. It's just that the 650s have set the bar so extremely high for performance for price ratio that it's hard to justify spending 6x (or more) that much on headphones that'll most likely only offer a 40% improvement at the most...

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller why not spending more in the CDplayer instead or the amp, or any other better source

[OT2]That's assuming not being satisfied with the source. I have a $60 source, modded of course (so in actuality, final cost is closer to $200), the modded 3950. I heard this side by side with a Meridian and *that* cost difference I wouldn't pay for. Basically, because for me there was no difference. This was in meet conditions though, but also, I preferred the sound of my modded Tosh better than my now sold Sacdmodded NS500V, which was great sounding on its own. And the latter comparison I did extensively over months, and in the quietest possible conditions. How much you spend where is very relative after all. Depends on what you've got, and what you want.[/OT2]

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WulfmanJax So you think selling a source and buying a new one that was $240 more would be a bigger improvement than upgrading the cables on the HD650s? I'm not saying one way or the other, i'm just curious. The only 650s i've ever heard were without the cable upgrade and i did notice the veil and boringness alot of people seems to mention. I really wondered if a cable would fix the problem. But even then, you're still talking about a $550 headphone that is widely considered the absolute best for > $1300. That's a pretty strong selling point. Though with his kind of money to spend, i think it may serve him best to pay the extra money and get the best. It's just that the 650s have set the bar so extremely high for performance for price ratio that it's hard to justify spending 6x (or more) that much on headphones that'll most likely only offer a 40% improvement at the most...

Two points, the cable will not fix the veil, at least not the Zu Mobious, and the second, if you consider the HD650 as the best selling headphones for >$1300, it is up to you, and a very personal opinion, I know a few members that don't even change it for the HD580 which will cost less than $150.00.....who stated that? IMO not even close, it is not a secret that I preffer a few others headphones over this one, including the CD3000....HD650 is too bored and laid back for my taste, and for many other members....RS-1, PS-1, HP-1, RS325, 225, etys, ATW1000, ATW2002, the new canalphones by Sure, and IIRC all of them are less than 1300, and many members will choose any of those over the HD650.

 

[darkclouds]

Don't let the price of the HD650 fool you. They're definitely a top tier set of cans. The addition of an after market cable will increase they're sound quality. With a budget of 4k, you'll definitely want to get the cable upgrade. My suggestion of HD650/cardas and Stealth will run you about 3k. This is in the ballpark of Stax Omega II and 007t or 007 amp from EIFL. I've tried the stax and just prefer the senns more. As others have mentioned, at these price points, it'll be about personal preferences more than anything else.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra [OT2]That's assuming not being satisfied with the source. I have a $60 source, modded of course, the modded 3950. I heard this side by side with a Meridian and *that* cost difference I wouldn't pay for. Basically, because for me there was no difference. This was in meet conditions though, but also, I preferred the sound of my modded Tosh better than my now sold Sacdmodded NS500V, which was great sounding on its own. And the latter comparison I did extensively over months, and in the quietest possible conditions. How much you spend where is very relative after all. Depends on what you've got, and what you want.[/OT2]

There are always room for improvements, unless we aretalking of NIK's system...LOL...

But I stated the same, "unless you already have the rest", means in my statment that same idea, if you are satisfied with the system you have, and feel that the cable will be what you are missing, or maybe that what you need to upgrade is far more than this amount of money, then is OK to go for a cable, but honestly with a 60.00 source I would look for upgrades in any other direction than the cable, but this is just me, of course any person is a different world....

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller but honestly with a 60.00 source I would look for upgrades in any other direction than the cable, but this is just me, of course any person is a different world....

I understand your point, but as darkclouds said about the Senn's, I say about the modded Tosh, don't let the truly ludicrous price tag fool you. You should hear one some time.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra I understand your point, but as darkclouds said about the Senn's, I say about the modded Tosh, don't let the truly ludicrous price tag fool you. You should hear one some time.

Raul, I think I heard one, Jahn's one, I don't know if is the same model as yours, but it sounded decent and very good for the money of course, but man, there are other options, and this is comming from a person who has nothing to show you better, OK? But I know the market at least, and I know that before going any further, we need to upgrade our sources. BTW I consider the Tosh a very good value for the money, OTOH the HD650 IMO is not the same case, for the price of the HD650 plus a cable, I will get some others instead (sorry I do not like it a little bit, not even with that cable) so....

and I can't get any better in source, with 60.00...LOL...

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Raul, I think I heard one, Jahn's one, I don't know if is the same model as yours

Not sure either, mine is the 3950 with Vinnie Rossi mods + Browndog/OPA627 opamps (check the link in my sig).

Quote:

OTOH the HD650 IMO is not the same case, for the price of the HD650 plus a cable, I will get some others instead (sorry I do not like it a little bit, not even with that cable)

I'm not saying you should like it, you don't and that's the way it is. No problem with that. I also see your avatar (and remember your posts from some other threads) that you like the CD3K, which I have tried in several ocassions, and have always found too bright for my taste. We all hear differently after all.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra Not sure either, mine is the 3950 with Vinnie Rossi mods + Browndog/OPA627 opamps (check the link in my sig). I'm not saying you should like it, you don't and that's the way it is. No problem with that. I also see your avatar (and remember your posts from some other threads) that you like the CD3K, which I have tried in several ocassions, and have always found too bright for my taste. We all hear differently after all.

His is the 3960, and I do not think he had modded his that extensively, well indeed Voodoochile did it for him.

 

[Swampwalker]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that often folks are shelling out big $ on a pair of cans, amp, upgrade cable, whatever, and have only a fair quality source. I am using a somewhat dated, but still quite respectable CAL CL-10 on my hp rig. No question that the cable upgrade may not be very efficient, unless you have a quality source. People argue about where to sink the most $, but generally, the entire chain should be relatively similar quality; you wouldn't want to use a $4K source (say Esoteric DV-50 or Cary 30X) with a pair of eggos, or a $100 PCDP with a Stax OmegaII/007t. But generally, IMO, if you get a very resolving transducer (like a Stax or K1000) you will need a very good quality source (and amp), but a transducer that commits no major errors but is not the last word in resolution will sound fine with a very good source. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[WulfmanJax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Two points, the cable will not fix the veil, at least not the Zu Mobious, and the second, if you consider the HD650 as the best selling headphones for >$1300, it is up to you, and a very personal opinion, I know a few members that don't even change it for the HD580 which will cost less than $150.00.....who stated that? IMO not even close, it is not a secret that I preffer a few others headphones over this one, including the CD3000....HD650 is too bored and laid back for my taste, and for many other members....RS-1, PS-1, HP-1, RS325, 225, etys, ATW1000, ATW2002, the new canalphones by Sure, and IIRC all of them are less than 1300, and many members will choose any of those over the HD650.

Maybe the 650s are just getting unhealthily popular? It's the price thing man. Plus all the praise they're recieving. You're one of the few i've seen that truly doesn't like them. I've seen others like you, sure, but the people that love them to the people that dislike them ratio is probably 10 to 1.