[grawk]

You know, I bet greenspan knows the great depression was over 70 years ago...not in the last 50.

 

[Roam]

Worst crisis in at least 50 years. That covers everything back to at least 1958. There is nothing between the end of the Great Depression and 1958 which was worse than the stagflation suffered during the 70's and early 80's. Meaning nothing, other than the Great Depression is worse than the current situation from a credit crisis standpoint.

 

[Konig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not only that those other countries how hold so much of our debt. What bothers me greatly about the trade surplus is that the folks in the EU and China are not using those dollars we send over to buy US-made goods in return......instead, they are buying US companies! Firms I've worked for in the US chemical industry over the past 30 years include Stauffer Chemical (now largely owned by Rhodia, spinoff of Rhone Poulenc, plus INEOS, a British conglomerate), Morton Chemical (its most profitable unit eventually spun off to Nippon Paint), Miles Labs (remnants of which are owned by Bayer AG and other Bayer spinoffs), and General Mills Chemicals (bought by Henkel, now Cognis). A local plant owned by Pfizer until the mid-1980's is now owned by a Hong Kong investment group. GE Plastics, who developed polycarbonate (the polymer used in CD's) was recently sold to SABIC, 70% of which is owned by the Saudi government. Some remaining jobs stay here, at least....but the profits won't. And with a weakening dollar, there will not be meaningful reinvestment here. The excuse will be that sure, capital in the US is relatively cheap compared to the EU, but the profits don't translate so well into euros any more. And in general, their "solution" has been further headcount reductions, or in the case of Bayer, engaging in price-fixing cartels that ruined several businesses.

That is not true. Im very sure China and Russia will want to buy your f22s and nuclear submarines but the govt won't let the military industry sell. So you are stuck with a trade deficit, want to protect your global supremacy and yet complain people do not buy enough of your goods? lolx

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is not true. Im very sure China and Russia will want to buy your f22s and nuclear submarines but the govt won't let the military industry sell. So you are stuck with a trade deficit, want to protect your global supremacy and yet complain people do not buy enough of your goods? lolx

I'm not complaining about what other countries buy or don't buy in terms of goods--and I'm also very sure that selling China and Russia F22's and subs wouldn't make any significant difference in the US economy.

My complaint is that if they don't buy goods, then the only thing that remains to be bought with their dollars are US companies, and to me, as a nation we should have greater foresight as to what that means for the future.

The problem is that the management of American firms, and the policy makers in Washington, continually forget that someone must pay the piper, and we can't keep pushing the costs to solve today's problems forward onto future generations. Most CEO's apparently only want their jobs for 2 years or so to bail out with a good package that keeps them set for life--they don't care about managing for real sustainability of the business.

IMHO, it's idiot shareholders who've overpaid for the stock on speculation alone, who've pushed the price beyond anything reasonable that should be paid based on true earnings potential, that have forced the issue in many cases. The availability of broad stock index funds has caused share prices for many firms to rise when there are no fundamental reasons to believe that future performance warrants an increase share price.

We have enough blame to spread around within the US for our problems, believe me!

 

[frozenice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMHO, it's idiot shareholders who've overpaid for the stock on speculation alone, who've pushed the price beyond anything reasonable that should be paid based on true earnings potential, that have forced the issue in many cases. The availability of broad stock index funds has caused share prices for many firms to rise when there are no fundamental reasons to believe that future performance warrants an increase share price. We have enough blame to spread around within the US for our problems, believe me!

When you have a large group like the baby boomers entering the workforce at once with few people leaving the workforce you get a situation where there are more buyers than sellers of stocks and therefore a natural overbidding of share prices. It really has nothing to do with idiocy.

 

[sejarzo]

I think anyone who thinks a corporation should turn a higher profit margin solely based on what he or she paid for the stock.....without studying the reports, balance sheets, market position, etc. etc. is an idiot. And frankly, that's the prevailing attitude among many who pumped new money into the market. They didn't do their homework and now want performance that was never reasonably attainable. Maybe attainable for a few quarters after headcount reductions and freezing capital expenditures, but then they'll whine because they end up owning an expensive parking lot in two more years.

 

[ok computer]

All of this is irrelavent. Everyone knows the world will end in 2012. Just enjoy life while you can.

Apocalypse 2012 : An Investigation into Civilization's End

 

[hoosterw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok computer /img/forum/go_quote.gif All of this is irrelavent. Everyone knows the world will end in 2012. Just enjoy life while you can. Apocalypse 2012 : An Investigation into Civilization's End

Well all through history people have been quoting dates for when the world would come to an end.

Its like the weatherman telling it is gonna rain. If he keeps it up for enough days in a row, there will come a day that he is right!

In this case I do not believe there is a wheaterman that will live long enough to get his right.

Just my 2 cts.