[Redcarmoose]

That's kind of what I was getting at with the BL03 thing though. More often than not this stuff is downright mediocre, if not just plain bad, and it gets forgotten by the end of the year, if not much sooner. Is it really worth the effort to seek one out and write a whole review about it? How many chifi hypetrains came and went last year? Who talks about stuff like the Audiosense T800 or the Thieaudio Voyager 14 today? I suppose I certainly wouldn't turn down the chance to hear one if I happen to run into it, but that's not to say I'll think it'll be worth writing about either - the number of IEMs I've heard and chosen not to cover is innumerable, and for good reason.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I don't see the point of covering stuff that ends up not standing the test of time; and not just that but isn't even all that entertaining to write about either. If an IEM is unable to fulfill either criterion, then what exactly is there to talk about?

I’d love to read your take on the Thieaudio Legacy 4 in stock switch settings, also the Tripowin TC-01?

 

[aminus]

I’d love to read your take on the Thieaudio Legacy 4 in stock switch settings, also the Tripowin TC-01?

No promises on those ones. Both of them don't have actively available demo units in SG, meaning I have to seek out an owner. I have a decent idea of where I might be able to find a Legacy 4 but I have no idea where to find the Tripowin. I wasn't even aware Tripowin made IEMs until now.

Stuff I will be actively seeking out over the coming weeks will mainly be the Dunu Zen, the Dusk, and the Acoustune 1300SS. I do have some ideas for another rant article talking about some of the stuff that's been discussed in here over the last few days regarding chifi and hypetrains. No promises that it will materialize into anything though.

 

[Redcarmoose]

No promises on those ones. Both of them don't have actively available demo units in SG, meaning I have to seek out an owner. I have a decent idea of where I might be able to find a Legacy 4 but I have no idea where to find the Tripowin. I wasn't even aware Tripowin made IEMs until now.

Stuff I will be actively seeking out over the coming weeks will mainly be the Dunu Zen, the Dusk, and the Acoustune 1300SS. I do have some ideas for another rant article talking about some of the stuff that's been discussed in here over the last few days regarding chifi and hypetrains. No promises that it will materialize into anything though.

I bring up the L4 only as it would be interesting to get your take on the new 8mm DD. While of course I haven’t heard a bunch of IEMs, like you have; I’ve just never heard bass like the L4 does.

 

[Nabillion_786]

I have tried all those chifi hype trains you are talking about and the nm2+ was the first one that brings a noticeable change in terms of technicalities and details. My favourite now is the fiio fd5 and this further improves the strengths of those whilst conveying better emotions probably due to that bigger driver. Still a touch lean sounding but I feel this iem will not be forgotten because of the unique airy stage they possess. Honestly it is huge and not comparable to other iems because of its semi open design. They have changeable filters aswell which give them more flexibility for tuning.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I’ve been dipping into the Chinese river of budget IEM hope since the HiFiMan $70 RE0 in 2009. Things started to get good in 2018, yet have just gone to the next level in late 2020. IMO

 

[aminus]

Metal Magic Research: Lessons in Bad Shell Design
MMR is a company that I seem to be a little late on. They originally debuted back in February with something of a disaster of a show, with pretty much universally negative comments from my friend group on some of their stuff in particular. Not just in sound, but in fit as well. The MMR IEMs look incredibly painful to wear, and by all accounts are just as uncomfortable as they look. Who knew modernist architectural traits didn't work well with stuff that you're supposed to stick in yourself? That sounded weird.

I’ve reviewed some expensive IEMs in my time, but holy hell. $4.5k for the Thummim. This might be the most expensive IEM I’ve ever reviewed (though not the most expensive I’ve ever heard, that would be Obravo’s Ra C Cu).

I'm tired of saying it at this point, but the Thummim is yet another seriously overpriced IEM that doesn’t perform up to its MSRP at all. Let’s start with the bass, which is supposedly DD. Genuinely could have fooled me, given how blunted and light it is. It’s also really bloated, though thankfully not as much as the Dorado 2020 or Vega 2020, which sound asphyxiating in comparison. The Thummim’s bass is really unbefitting of a DD, given its incapability at performing in subbass and poor slam. The bass texture is also really poor, which is especially egregious given how much upper bass bloat there is. I would just say this is a poorly performing driver overall with not much else to it.

The midrange of the Thummim is kind of whatever. It’s upper midrange forward with a clear suckout in the lower mids, no doubt in part thanks to the bass bloat. I’ve heard tunings like this too many times, to the point where I’m really no longer phased by it. Don’t get me wrong, it still sounds bad, but it’s... how do I say this... generic. Generically bad. Unmemorable. Let’s move on.

Oh wait, this is another one of those quad EST IEMs? Christ, can’t believe those are still in vogue. Anyways, the Thummim’s treble sounds soft, lacking in extension, recessed, and all around extremely questionable in implementation. In other words, par for the course for the at this point uncountable numbers of quad EST designs. Seriously, I can’t think of any of them with standout treble. All of them are just bad or mediocre in one way or another.

I’d talk about coherency, but the Thummim really doesn’t have any; not in the timbral, tonal, nor transient departments. The bass attack is clearly too blunt to match up with the midrange, which in turn has a gaping hole between the bass bloat and the pinna region, and the pinna gain leads off to an uneven EST treble crossover, which sounds disjointed from the midrange, not only in speed but in its overly lightweight timbre. It’s just a disorienting and badly put together mess throughout. In a sense, the Thummim kind of summarizes a lot of the reasons I hate tribrid designs. They don't sound any better than normal hybrids or even just full BA setups in many cases, and they tend to demand black market organ prices and prop themselves up with all sorts of insufferable marketing that adds nothing to the sound. You could probably say it's no different from luxury goods in other markets, but I don't know. It's just kind of sickening to look at.

The Homunculus is an IEM that, at launch, received rave reviews. No, not that kind of rave, the “raving about how it was possibly one of the worst IEMs in existence” type of rave. Practically everyone I know hated it, and I really don’t use that word lightly (well, at least in the context of other peoples’ opinions). I, unsurpisingly, went in sort of expecting the same.

Except it appears that the launch unit was plagued with a phase issue that has since been corrected. The Homunculus now sounds... okay. It’s really generic sounding with a lot of the same issues that plagued the Thummim (surprisingly lightweight bass response for a DD, overly airy and “ethereal” treble in all the wrong ways, general incoherency throughout the frequency band), but with a lot less bass bloat, and a midrange tuning that, while not exactly amazing, is arguably a lot more normal sounding than the Thummim. In that respect, the Homunculus is just kind of mediocre all around, but ends up being a lot more palatable than its exponentially more expensive older brother. Funny how that works.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that the MMR stuff is surprisingly, well, not terrible. It's one of those times where the manufacturer really did fumble and correct themselves in short order, which is an oft used excuse that usually amounts to nothing in the long run. The thing is, now we're left with IEMs that are more visually distinctive than they are memorable to listen to. Neither of them have particularly good tunings, nor do they pull off the tribrid sound particularly well, nor do they have any sort of noteworthy intangibles to at least have something going for them. They just... exist. And it's not like their visually distinctive shells are particularly comfortable to wear either. Even the considerably less angular and edgy Homunculus feels like inserting a knife edge into your ear. That's not something I would want to hear someone say about my IEM's fit if I were MMR, but I guess here we are.

All listening was done with the WM1A's 4.4mm jack.

This could certainly have turned out a lot worse than it did, but as is, it's really a big whatever. I would have expected something more interesting from the most expensive IEM I've reviewed to date, but there's something kind of symbolic about it being utterly mediocre, if not just outright worse than.

Scores:
Homunculus: 5/10
Thummim: 4/10

 

[xanlamin]

I wouldn't have put it as eloquent as you but I totally agree with your observations given I have tried both. They are really a rip-off imho.

 

[Toom]

@aminus - have you (or have you ever been, lol) tempted to review earbuds alongside IEMs? The new Fiio EM5 buds could be a prime candidate for a quality takedown from you, even if they sound beautiful to my ears. It's 2021 and I'm all about needing pain in order to feel pleasure these days....

 

[frix]

Yes +1 for that. I'm tempted to sink too much money in the mentioned earbud.

 

[Toom]

Yes +1 for that. I'm tempted to sink too much money in the mentioned earbud.

I say do it - they are amazing. Right now, preferring them to my Solaris 2020....not that animus thinks those are any good,

 

[aminus]

@aminus - have you (or have you ever been, lol) tempted to review earbuds alongside IEMs? The new Fiio EM5 buds could be a prime candidate for a quality takedown from you, even if they sound beautiful to my ears. It's 2021 and I'm all about needing pain in order to feel pleasure these days....

I don't think I'll ever get into the earbud space. Here are a couple reasons why:
1. I personally really, really hate the comfort of earbuds. I dislike how they don't feel secure in the ear and I can't stand it when they shift around due to movement or whatever. The fundamental design of them also means that earbuds will ultimately have flaws like being terrible at bass regardless, which kind of lowers the bar on how well they can perform from the start. Not to say that something with rolled bass can't be good, but there is a reason why there is only one KSC75 and only one HD580/600/650.
2. Earbuds are probably nigh impossible to write reviews on that even slightly approach what other people may hear. I usually drop the pretense of writing with the intent of objectivity and largely use this thread as an outlet for my unfiltered opinions on IEMs, but I do think this thread is most useful to others when people can agree with what I write and understand perhaps a bit more about what they're listening to through my writing unraveling some of their experiences. Though IEM perception does ultimately vary from person to person due to the acoustics of the pinna and the head, things like frequency response and transient behavior (audio is, after all, frequency over time) always remain constant, or at least consistent enough between units to be considered negligible. With earbuds, no such benchmark exists. Earbud FR changes based on placement within the concha, not to mention all the other acoustic variations from person to person that listening to IEMs inherently has, meaning that there is a near 0 chance that what I hear will be consistent with someone else, or even what I myself hear on subsequent listening sessions. I see this as a killing blow to ever reviewing earbuds seriously.
3. Most of the IEMs I hear are store demos. This is pretty easy to do given the number of IEM stores there are in SG, and whatever those don't have, I can have friends loan me. Virtually no store carries high end earbuds, due to how much of a niche they are even in comparison to kilobuck IEMs. This effectively makes it impossible for me to get my hands on most, if any earbuds at all. I'm not going to sink my own wallet into this venture either.
4. There is generally a lack of reliable and consistent writing related to earbuds, likely due to point 2. Most earbud discussion is very much hype based, and who knows how much of it is really pointing towards something good. Essentially speaking, there is no way I can know what stuff is actually worth listening to and what stuff is just FOTM. The territory is simply far too uncharted, and likely for good reason.

I'd honestly much rather get into something like headphones than try earbuds, and I won't do headphones without being able to try everything on the same setup the same way I do IEMs (which is currently highly impractical, if not just completely impossible). At the moment the most logical step forward in this thread, if it were to expand out of IEMs, is DAPs. I've been planning on that for a while but a lot of stuff got delayed and pushed back throughout the year. I may get started on that soon.

 

[Toom]

I don't think I'll ever get into the earbud space. Here are a couple reasons why:
1. I personally really. really hate the comfort of earbuds. I dislike how they don't feel secure in the ear and I can't stand it when they shift around due to movement or whatever. The fundamental design of them also means that earbuds will ultimately have flaws like being terrible at bass regardless, which kind of lowers the bar on how well they can perform from the start. Not to say that something with rolled bass can't be good, but there is a reason why there is only one KSC75 and only one HD580/600/650.
2. Earbuds are probably nigh impossible to write reviews on that even slightly approach what other people may hear. I usually drop the pretense of writing with the intent of objectivity and largely use this thread as an outlet for my unfiltered opinions on IEMs, but I do think this thread is most useful to others when people can agree with what I write and understand perhaps a bit more about what they're listening to through my writing unraveling some of their experiences. Though IEM perception does ultimately vary from person to person due to the acoustics of the pinna and the head, things like frequency response and transient behavior (audio is, after all, frequency over time) always remain constant, or at least consistent enough between units to be considered negligible. With earbuds, no such benchmark exists. Earbud FR changes based on placement within the concha, not to mention all the other acoustic variations from person to person that listening to IEMs inherently has, meaning that there is a near 0 chance that what I hear will be consistent with someone else, or even what I myself hear on subsequent listening sessions. I see this as a killing blow to ever reviewing earbuds seriously.

OK, fair point on them being less useful for playing music on the go, but this begs the question - why does music have to be listened to while moving? The evolutionary development of earphones then iems surely follows from a requirement to listen while out and about in the world, but has now taken on a life outside of this function. This is especially true in lockdown - how much time do we spend sat or lying, listening to music? Horizontal is my favourite inclination du jour, actually, lol - not least because I have Covid right now and exertion is so tiring.

So actually, just as for headphones, I think earbuds may have more raison d'etre than they have for a long time. And with that caveat clearly stated, there is no reason at all why they shouldn't be reviewed alongside IEMs.

As for how we hear IEMs vs earbuds consistently, I would have thought it was the opposite of your argument? Surely, with variables as tip selection and ear canal topography, IEMs are much more a slot machine of chance than earbuds, which are essentially just speakers placed next to the head?

 

[aminus]

OK, fair point on them being less useful for playing music on the go, but this begs the question - why does music have to be listened to while moving? The evolutionary development of earphones then iems surely follows from a requirement to listen while out and about in the world, but has now taken on a life outside of this function. This is especially true in lockdown - how much time do we spend sat or lying, listening to music? Horizontal is my favourite inclination du jour, actually, lol - not least because I have Covid right now and exertion is so tiring.

I mean, it doesn't. It's just a personal thing. I've had bad experiences using earbuds in the past and just dislike them because of it. I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree with or understand it.

As for how we hear IEMs vs earbuds consistently, I would have thought it was the opposite of your argument? Surely, with variables as tip selection and ear canal topography, IEMs are much more a slot machine of chance than earbuds, which are essentially just speakers placed next to the head?

Tip selection isn't a huge factor in IEM perception beyond bore size, which affects treble response. Materials do affect perceived sound (and likely do change transient response a little, though such can only be conjecture) but this is largely negligible when it comes down to the grand scheme of things. Tip rolling makes more sense in the eyes of finding synergy that works with something you already like than it does in the eyes of properly sitting down and reviewing something for what it is. If you want to be really stringent about it, you could probably just enforce a widebore only rule for all IEMs, as widebores affect frequency response the least, though that will obviously work in the favor of some and against others. My philosophy is that whatever is provided is deemed good enough by people who have financial incentive for it to be good (that is, by the store who's selling it or by the manufacturer) and is therefore good enough for me.

As for earbuds being speakers placed against the head, this is completely inaccurate. Speakers are (at least to my knowledge) somewhat consistent from person to person because of the distance they occupy from the listener, and the fact that they also propagate through the skull/head/torso and not just the ears. Headphones lose most of this, which is why image perception on headphones is greatly diminished compared to speakers. IEMs and earbuds are the same in that they both bypass the pinna and whatever remaining acoustic factors there are outside the ear canal that headphones interact with, and earbuds are even more variable than IEMs due to having to deal with inconsistent placement and fitting on top of all the acoustic factors that they bypass. This makes them the most inconsistent transducer type of the 4 mentioned.

 

[Toom]

I mean, it doesn't. It's just a personal thing. I've had bad experiences using earbuds in the past and just dislike them because of it. I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree with or understand it.


Tip selection isn't a huge factor in IEM perception beyond bore size, which affects treble response. Materials do affect perceived sound (and likely do change transient response a little, though such can only be conjecture) but this is largely negligible when it comes down to the grand scheme of things. Tip rolling makes more sense in the eyes of finding synergy that works with something you already like than it does in the eyes of properly sitting down and reviewing something for what it is. If you want to be really stringent about it, you could probably just enforce a widebore only rule for all IEMs, as widebores affect frequency response the least, though that will obviously work in the favor of some and against others. My philosophy is that whatever is provided is deemed good enough by people who have financial incentive for it to be good (that is, by the store who's selling it or by the manufacturer) and is therefore good enough for me.

As for earbuds being speakers placed against the head, this is completely inaccurate. Speakers are (at least to my knowledge) somewhat consistent from person to person because of the distance they occupy from the listener, and the fact that they also propagate through the skull/head/torso and not just the ears. Headphones lose most of this, which is why image perception on headphones is greatly diminished compared to speakers. IEMs and earbuds are the same in that they both bypass the pinna and whatever remaining acoustic factors there are outside the ear canal that headphones interact with, and earbuds are even more variable than IEMs due to having to deal with inconsistent placement and fitting on top of all the acoustic factors that they bypass. This makes them the most inconsistent transducer type of the 4 mentioned.

Thanks for the detailed response. I have no idea how you manage to score IEMs for review - surely not by companies sending them to you, which would be like turkeys voting for Christmas - but if you were to give the EM5s a try for whatever reason, well I would be fascinated to see how you choose to murder them in print.

 

[nraymond]

...earbuds are even more variable than IEMs due to having to deal with inconsistent placement and fitting on top of all the acoustic factors that they bypass. This makes them the most inconsistent transducer type of the 4 mentioned.

Yes. I have bought too many headphones/earphones to speak of over the last 15 years, and some of them have been earbuds. I recently gave up on earbuds after a year of trying recent models that are considered to have good bass. While I could get good bass from them when I physically pressed them against my ears, nothing I could do would get good bass out of them with the way they sit in my ears on their own. I figure it must largely be due to my ear anatomy. (I grew up loving earbuds, but that was long ago when I probably didn't even know was good bass was, so I likely didn't know what I was missing back then.) I do enjoy the KSC75 mounted to a simple headband though, that works well.