Amazon launches Music HD with lossless streaming

[Alcophone]

This is what I was talking about. In this case, the track is 192kHz (Todd Rundgren, It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference, from 2015 remaster of Something/Anything,) Windows sound control panel setting is 48kHz, but it still says it is sending it to my dac (in this case Gungnir MB) at 192kHz. Previously, with Windows set to 48 kHz, it would have reported sending it to my dac at 48 kHz. This is different than it used to be.

I can reproduce this the following way:

1. Set DAC to 24/192 in Windows
2. Set Amazon Music to use that DAC, but with exclusive mode disabled. Otherwise step 4 will stop playback and potentially mess up the playback state in the app. Though pausing before step 4 seems to be okay with exclusive mode enabled.
3. Play a 192 kHz track with Amazon Music. Will show as track/device/playing as 192/192/192, DAC shows 192 kHz.
   
   
4. While the track keeps playing, set the DAC to 24/48 in Windows. Amazon Music will show track/device/playing as 192/48/192, DAC shows 48 kHz.
   
   
5. Switch to a different song and then back to the song played initially. Amazon Music will show track/device/playing as 192/48/48, DAC shows 48 kHz.
   

Essentially, when you start playing a song for the first time, Amazon Music picks the playback sample rate based on the device capability at the time. If the track's quality is higher, it chooses the device's quality, otherwise it's based on the track quality. If you change the DAC setting during playback, this does not get updated until you change tracks. It will keep playing at the same sample rate (send 192 kHz audio to the Windows WASAPI interface), but it will get downsampled by Windows prior to hitting the DAC. Once you switch to a different track and back, it gets another shot at picking the playback sample rate.

Now, that worked for Muddy Waters - Good Morning Little School Girl. Playing a 16/44.1 file does not result in Amazon playing at 24/48, track/device/playing says 44.1/48/44.1. The DAC still shows 48 kHz.



I suspect that the Amazon Music app does the downsampling itself, while upsampling is performed by Windows (or possibly downsampling if the Amazon Music app hasn't re-checked the device sample rate since it changed). Either way, the system level output device setting always determines what the DAC sees.

 

[senorx12562]

I can reproduce this the following way:

1. Set DAC to 24/192 in Windows
2. Set Amazon Music to use that DAC, but with exclusive mode disabled. Otherwise step 4 will stop playback and potentially mess up the playback state in the app. Though pausing before step 4 seems to be okay with exclusive mode enabled.
3. Play a 192 kHz track with Amazon Music. Will show as track/device/playing as 192/192/192, DAC shows 192 kHz.
   
4. While the track keeps playing, set the DAC to 24/48 in Windows. Amazon Music will show track/device/playing as 192/48/192, DAC shows 48 kHz.
   
5. Switch to a different song and then back to the song played initially. Amazon Music will show track/device/playing as 192/48/48, DAC shows 48 kHz.
   

Essentially, when you start playing a song for the first time, Amazon Music picks the playback sample rate based on the device capability at the time. If the track's quality is higher, it chooses the device's quality, otherwise it's based on the track quality. If you change the DAC setting during playback, this does not get updated until you change tracks. It will keep playing at the same sample rate (send 192 kHz audio to the Windows WASAPI interface), but it will get downsampled by Windows prior to hitting the DAC. Once you switch to a different track and back, it gets another shot at picking the playback sample rate.

Now, that worked for Muddy Waters - Good Morning Little School Girl. Playing a 16/44.1 file does not result in Amazon playing at 24/48, track/device/playing says 44.1/48/44.1. The DAC still shows 48 kHz.



I suspect that the Amazon Music app does the downsampling itself, while upsampling is performed by Windows (or possibly downsampling if the Amazon Music app hasn't re-checked the device sample rate since it changed). Either way, the system level output device setting always determines what the dac sees.

I did not do any of the steps you have listed. And I have since that started fresh a few times, and it acts the same way. But I am sure you are right. I am a very old computer-barely-literate person, but that is why...oh, never mind. I was really just trying to be helpful. I do (or used to) know better.

 

[Alcophone]

I did not do any of the steps you have listed. And I have since that started fresh a few times, and it acts the same way. But I am sure you are right. I am a very old computer-barely-literate person, but that is why...oh, never mind. I was really just trying to be helpful. I do (or used to) know better.

Okay, interesting. I'm just trying to get on the same page, whether the story on that page is closer to mine or yours is irrelevant. When you posted your findings, I got excited and tested it right away, and was disappointed that it didn't match what I saw.

The song you mentioned is this one, right? Is your Gungnir using USB gen 2, 5 or or Unison? I have a Jotunheim with USB gen 2, Yggdrasil with USB gen 5 and a Bifrost 2 with Unison USB, for a more apples to apples comparison, though only the Yggdrasil would tell me what it's receiving.

One thought that crossed my mind is that Amazon may be A/B testing different versions of the app by sending experimental versions to a subset of the users to limit the impact of breaking changes. I would expect that to be reflected in the version, though. In the top right corner, clicking on the user icon > Help > About Amazon Music shows me that I'm using version 8.8.0.2295. I'm using Windows 10 Pro 20H2 / 19042.1288.

I do appreciate your effort, truly. This is a pet peeve of mine, hence my obsession. Nothing against you. Sorry for coming across as dismissive.

 

[Alcophone]

Did the Android app always look this way? Seems to imitate Roon.

On my Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus (Android 11):



On my Samsung Galaxy Tab A (Android 9):



Different tracks each. In both cases a Topping D10 is connected, and in both cases it receives 192 kHz audio, yet Amazon is claiming I'm using wired headphones.

On the tablet it's apparently downsampling the 192 kHz track to 44.1 kHz, then sending it to Android, which upsamples it to 192 kHz.

With Qobuz on the S10 Plus, 44.1/48 tracks arrive at the USB DAC as 48 kHz and 88.2/96/176.4/192 arrives as 192 kHz, while on the tablet everything arrives as 192 kHz.

UAPP on the tablet, without an external DAC connected, is also sending 44.1 kHz exclusively. Might be an Android 9 limitation, or one this particular tablet has.
On the S10 Plus, UAPP passes each sample rate on to Android as is.

At least Qobuz via UAPP sets the sample rate correctly using a USB DAC. I doubt streaming apps will ever put in that amount of effort to bypass Android's shenanigans.

 

[SolaVirtus]

Did the Android app always look this way? Seems to imitate Roon.

On my Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus (Android 11):



On my Samsung Galaxy Tab A (Android 9):



Different tracks each. In both cases a Topping D10 is connected, and in both cases it receives 192 kHz audio, yet Amazon is claiming I'm using wired headphones.

On the tablet it's apparently downsampling the 192 kHz track to 44.1 kHz, then sending it to Android, which upsamples it to 192 kHz.

With Qobuz on the S10 Plus, 44.1/48 tracks arrive at the USB DAC as 48 kHz and 88.2/96/176.4/192 arrives as 192 kHz, while on the tablet everything arrives as 192 kHz.

UAPP on the tablet, without an external DAC connected, is also sending 44.1 kHz exclusively. Might be an Android 9 limitation, or one this particular tablet has.
On the S10 Plus, UAPP passes each sample rate on to Android as is.

At least Qobuz via UAPP sets the sample rate correctly using a USB DAC. I doubt streaming apps will ever put in that amount of effort to bypass Android's shenanigans.

I think this is pretty new, at least not more than a week at most.
Mine also calls it "wired headphones" though I'm using a Tempotec dongle.

 

[TK33]

I think this is pretty new, at least not more than a week at most.
Mine also calls it "wired headphones" though I'm using a Tempotec dongle.

I believe it is pretty new as well l. I only noticed it last night and only because I saw a Dolby Atmos badge pop up and I was curious. If you swipe left and right on that screen, you can actually switch between Dolby and Ultra HD if the track is available in both formats. Thought that was pretty cool.

 

[H20Fidelity]

Amazon Music HD launched in Australia last week, I was so happy, the interface, the library, the price.

But after listening and tinkering around I too discovered exclusive mode means something different to Amazon.

Bit perfect is in fact not perfect.

I contacted their customer support and explained which they forwarded onto the developers but internet searches show people have been asking for 2-years about this, people have jumped ship to other streaming services because of it and still nothing is done.

So close yet so far.... I'll stick with Tidal until something is done about it.

 

[senorx12562]

Okay, interesting. I'm just trying to get on the same page, whether the story on that page is closer to mine or yours is irrelevant. When you posted your findings, I got excited and tested it right away, and was disappointed that it didn't match what I saw.

The song you mentioned is this one, right? Is your Gungnir using USB gen 2, 5 or or Unison? I have a Jotunheim with USB gen 2, Yggdrasil with USB gen 5 and a Bifrost 2 with Unison USB, for a more apples to apples comparison, though only the Yggdrasil would tell me what it's receiving.

One thought that crossed my mind is that Amazon may be A/B testing different versions of the app by sending experimental versions to a subset of the users to limit the impact of breaking changes. I would expect that to be reflected in the version, though. In the top right corner, clicking on the user icon > Help > About Amazon Music shows me that I'm using version 8.8.0.2295. I'm using Windows 10 Pro 20H2 / 19042.1288.

I do appreciate your effort, truly. This is a pet peeve of mine, hence my obsession. Nothing against you. Sorry for coming across as dismissive.

My Gungnir usb is definitely gen5, in fact i assume it is an A2, as the sn starts w/ B and it was purchased new from Schiit in late Sept 2017. But since Schiit won't confirm that that even exists, who knows? But as a more practical matter, for $80/year, (1/3 the price of Tidal) they are not gonna lose my business over these sample rate shenanigans. As long as I am enjoying it, the value is good for me. And getting a higher sample rate than 48kHz on an Android device from the Amazon app is definitely different than it used to be, fwiw.

 

[H20Fidelity]

Do you guys in USA still have the HD and Ultra HD symbols showing under the albums?

About 4-hours ago in Australia they all disappeared, even the HD option in settings to select it is gone.

 

[rlw6534]

Do you guys in USA still have the HD and Ultra HD symbols showing under the albums?

About 4-hours ago in Australia they all disappeared, even the HD option in settings to select it is gone.

I just checked and it's still there for me (on Android). I assume you're talking about the "now playing" screen.

 

[senorx12562]

Do you guys in USA still have the HD and Ultra HD symbols showing under the albums?

About 4-hours ago in Australia they all disappeared, even the HD option in settings to select it is gone.

This has only happened to me when I try to use the app on 2 different devices simultaneously, then the 2nd device can't access HD (cd quality in Amazon's world apparently) and the yellow HD/ULTRA HD isn't there.

 

[H20Fidelity]

I've checked a few things but still don't have it back.

Still sounds alright though.

 

[originalsnuffy]

Maybe I'm wrong, but comparing Amazon (FLAC streaming) to a download AIFF formatted file might not be an "apples to apples" (pun intended) comparison. AIFF, while lossless, might not be the same bitrate and might not have been from the same master / mix of the music. There's many aspects that go into the quality of music, and comparison of sources can be tricky at best.

The Apples to Apples comparison here would simply be which provides a more enjoyable listening experience for that individual. None of the rest really matters now does it?

 

[GlenAppleton]

The Apples to Apples comparison here would simply be which provides a more enjoyable listening experience for that individual. None of the rest really matters now does it?

Subjectively, absolutely. Whatever your ears say is good is good. However, the conversation did appear (to me) to be more about objective parameters. But that might just be my subjective observation of the conversation.

 

[jsmiller58]

I have Amazon Music Unlimited installed on my Hiby R6 Pro DAP. The issue I am experiencing is whenever I play music with 360 Reality Audio I get considerable stuttering and skipping in the tracks, but not when I play the same tracks in Ultra HD, or tracks that are presented in Dolby Atmos. As a reference I don’t have the same stuttering on the same 360 Reality Audio tracks when played from my much older LG V30.

Any suggestions or insights?