[Thermionic Dude]

First, apologies if this is in the wrong forum. Sony is the biggest offender but other (once) great Japanese companies seem to be following this trend. What I'm referring to is the dramatic dumbing-down of their product range to the point they are now at the lowest common denominator in terms of consumer electronics. Quite simply, Sony no longer offers any significant high-end products and their product offerings (at least in N. America) appear to be getting cheaper and cheaper in terms of build quality and cannot hold a candle in sonic performance to some of their past products-no more Esprit, Qualia, ES (they have a few pieces with "ES" in the model name, but look/feel nothing like the "classic" ES products and I don't think they have the 5-year warrantee any more), MDR CD3000, MDR R10, high-end SACD/CD players, high-end tuners, or high-end MD equipment. I understand that the market has shifted somewhat and that with the Wal-Martification of American retail, the only thing that counts anymore is cheapest price (quality/performance be damned), but there IS still a healthy enthusiast/"audiophile" market overall (with some signs of growth even) which would be highly interested in quality product offerings. I understand that they probably did not sell enough of the high-end stuff to make a significant difference in overall profits for the company, but I think that offering at least a few high-end products can be very helpful in marketing the more mainstream products. As an example, consider car companies. Dodge still builds the Viper and Ford recently put a modern incarnation of the GT-40 into production; neither company sells enough of these cars to have a significant impact on profitability (and both are struggling for survival), but these models are very important to the companies as a showcase for their engineering/design prowess. By building the Viper, Dodge can now make claims that the boring 4-door sedans that most people are shopping for feature technology "derived" from the "legendary" Viper (which itself is a derivative of the "legendary" AC Cobra)-all the sudden, that boring sedan seems a little more exciting now that a connection has been made between it and cars such as the Viper and Cobra. The mere presence of these "supercars" in the maker's line-up lends additional credibility to the engineering/design staff and the ability of the company to build a "great" car in general and leads to increased sales of the bread-and-butter models (sort of a positive "guilt by association"). Is there any good reason why this phenomenon would not translate into the world of audio? Does Sony not realize that some of their past flagship products (such as the MDR R10) sell for substantially more used (and several years old) than when new-if this is not indicative of a healthy demand for such products, I don't know what is. Sorry this was so lengthy, but does anyone share in my frustration? (Perhaps an industry "insider" could shed some light?)

 

[The Actual]

Sony did release the PFR-V1 recently which seemed to aim pretty high. Unfortunately it is hard to find and the few impressions out there seem to indicate the drivers just aren't too amazing, whether or not the design is a good one.

For my own personal entertainment I wish Sony and other companies would come out with new and improved headphones ever 4-5 months- then I would never run out of interesting new reviews to read. I don't really blame them though since it seems there just isn't enough money in the high-end headphone game for them to bother.



Also, Thermionic Dude, I recommend paragraphs

 

[alphataru]

I guess what's annoying is that Sony lacks range now. They used to have a great lineup from cheap $10 headphones to ultra expensive ones. However, that's just how big companies work, they forgo the most expensive products for ones that sell more. Essentially, cheaper products sell way more than the more expensive ones, and they are catering to the consumer. It's also easier for them to distribute the products in massive electronic stores such as BB that aims at midrange buyers.

You really can't blame companies for finding the most optimal market position. However, by Sony leaving the high end market, it does open up room for others.

What DOES bother me is that they're now passing mediocre products off as high-end. Like their new IEM EX-700SL. It's really nothing special, yet it's priced in the range of SE530. I'd rather they not turn into Bose...

 

[dclancy]

It's too bad too. I always liked the designs of some of their MDR series cans. The simple black, down to business look of the 150's look awesome, unfortunately I tried them at a BB, admittedly through an ipod nano, but they completely killed one of my favorite songs because of garbage sound.

 

[Uncle Erik]

It seems like no one is releasing new high-end headphones today. The last one was the GS-1000, and that was almost two years ago. I just don't think there's enough interest to justify statement products today. Probably even less in the near future since the economy is precarious.

Still wish there were a few on the market, though.

 

[wae5]

What about the MDR-F1s? I picked them up from Audio Cubes a few weeks ago and since that time they've become my favorite phones meaning I reach for them first. If you check my profile, you'll see they're up against some pretty stiff competition. I like them so much I picked up a second set just in case Sony discontinues them.

 

[ken36]

Sony needs to make money in each of it's profit centers. Not much money in good headphones these days. We are a dying breed.

 

[HiWire]

Sony got stung by the Qualia fiasco a few years ago. They killed that division and decided to focus on products that make more profit... too bad, since every major company needs a flagship product. Their MDR-SA?000 series probably isn't selling well, which gives them even less incentive to develop audiophile products.

 

[catscratch]

I think some of it has to do with how flagship products are perceived. A flagship supercar with a 200+mph top speed and a $100,000+ price tag is seen as exotic and desirable; a $4000 headphone or a $30,000 CD player is seen as absurd and ridiculous. Image on the market is everything, and when flagship audiophile components have a negative connotation with the lowest common denominator, any market-driven company would do better to steer clear of them as opposed to using them to build up brand prestige. $400-$500 headphones are all a headphone manufacturer needs, and developing flagship products isn't worth it when the marketing return is either negligible or detrimental (i.e. Sennheiser lost money on every Orpheus sold, but how many kids today are drooling over it (us excluded) as opposed to ridiculing the idea of $16,000 headphones?). Besides, modern recordings are at their worst in terms of sound quality that they ever have been in the last 20-odd years. The loudness war has killed whole genres of music for audiophile purposes. What are you going to listen to on serious high-end systems?

Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and there still are companies that contradict this kind of thinking. I'm thankful for it. I think that as hardware formats die and digital downloads become the norm for mass-market music distribution, vinyl will gain a very real foothold as the only serious hardware format left. Which in turn will support a small but stable audiophile market segment.

Well, either that, or hardware formats will die period and drag us kicking and screaming into mp3 hell.

 

[bestnaru]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphataru /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess what's annoying is that Sony lacks range now. They used to have a great lineup from cheap $10 headphones to ultra expensive ones. However, that's just how big companies work, they forgo the most expensive products for ones that sell more. Essentially, cheaper products sell way more than the more expensive ones, and they are catering to the consumer. It's also easier for them to distribute the products in massive electronic stores such as BB that aims at midrange buyers. You really can't blame companies for finding the most optimal market position. However, by Sony leaving the high end market, it does open up room for others. What DOES bother me is that they're now passing mediocre products off as high-end. Like their new IEM EX-700SL. It's really nothing special, yet it's priced in the range of SE530. I'd rather they not turn into Bose...

hi alphataru

Have you tried EX700 with decent burn-in time?
They are not popular here in North America but From what I read from Asian audiophile forum, they are worth the price and known to have wide sound stage and speaker like bass response. Though they can't really compete with Ultimate Ears TF10. At least that's what I read.

 

[jant71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wae5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about the MDR-F1s? I picked them up from Audio Cubes a few weeks ago and since that time they've become my favorite phones meaning I reach for them first. If you check my profile, you'll see they're up against some pretty stiff competition. I like them so much I picked up a second set just in case Sony discontinues them.

The F1's are from 2001 so they are not a recent design by any stretch.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think some of it has to do with how flagship products are perceived. A flagship supercar with a 200+mph top speed and a $100,000+ price tag is seen as exotic and desirable; a $4000 headphone or a $30,000 CD player is seen as absurd and ridiculous. Image on the market is everything, and when flagship audiophile components have a negative connotation with the lowest common denominator, any market-driven company would do better to steer clear of them as opposed to using them to build up brand prestige. $400-$500 headphones are all a headphone manufacturer needs, and developing flagship products isn't worth it when the marketing return is either negligible or detrimental (i.e. Sennheiser lost money on every Orpheus sold, but how many kids today are drooling over it (us excluded) as opposed to ridiculing the idea of $16,000 headphones?). Besides, modern recordings are at their worst in terms of sound quality that they ever have been in the last 20-odd years. The loudness war has killed whole genres of music for audiophile purposes. What are you going to listen to on serious high-end systems? Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and there still are companies that contradict this kind of thinking. I'm thankful for it. I think that as hardware formats die and digital downloads become the norm for mass-market music distribution, vinyl will gain a very real foothold as the only serious hardware format left. Which in turn will support a small but stable audiophile market segment. Well, either that, or hardware formats will die period and drag us kicking and screaming into mp3 hell.

Sony & Sen must have known that 4,000 & 16,000 headphones would not sell well. It's more of a statement product IMO.. & Sony's revenue is going to Blu Ray.. Another reason we won't see hi end headphones from Sony..

 

[ueyteuor]

what about the ps3... that was aiming pretty high

 

[krmathis]

You're certainly not the only one.
Sadly its the way most companies are heading these days. They target the mass consuming market, with products with a relative low price and average quality.They sell more product on this market, which most probably give them a higher revenue.
While they sadly give a **** about the high-end market.

It would be awesome if Sony still made the MDR-R10 and Qualia 010, or perhaps even developed successors for them. But that will probably never happen.

Just look at Sennheiser, AKG, Audio-technica, etc. They all made state-of-the-art headphones in the past, but now limit themselves to the mid-end market, or lower.
Stax seem to keep up though. Thankfully!

 

[troymadison]

SA5000 and HD650 aren't high end?