[bosiemoncrieff]

Wouldn't the balanced configuration of the WA22 SE be quite synergistic with the HD800 over the K812? And isn't the HD800 more 'amp picky' than the K812 where it benefits from higher quality amps (and isn't as great with lower quality ones)? None of this invalidates what you wrote, rather I'm suggesting that these headphones have different strengths and weaknesses.

Tried it briefly with fireflies. Equally bad. It doesn't matter though because Schiit Vali is beautiful with hd800, and vali 2 is $169. Why people still have hd800 amp pairing issues is beyond me. I agree though the wa22se is gonna be 5k or more which I can't afford and is also just obscene. Best dynamic amp I've ever heard, but the price makes it a toy for the rich. I should have tried hd800 with it single ended though, you're right.

I hear n90q is the portable to beat, haven't heard it. Also looking at sennehiser xkcd550. K3003 looks awesome. On the whole k812 seems like a flop, unforgivable perhaps most for being single ended.

I will say that the k1000 may exceed hd800 for classical. But k1000 is one of the most amp picky ever, perhaps on par with he6. With your liquid carbon I think hd800 would probably be fine, but I'm on the record as a mjolnir 2 evangelist. Maybe hd800S if you don't listen classical primarily? Or just hd6x0.

I think my hd600 sounds better than k812, though I didn't a/b them.

 

[S Crowther]

I heard them out of the new wa22se prototype against my trusty hd800 at the SF meet. I wrote:

K812 has unequivocally lost classical war to HD800. I cannot think of a situation in which I would recommend them over HD800. They're more immediate, placing you on the podium rather than in the audience, but that's really just a roundabout way of saying the soundstage isn't holographic and kind of surrounds you (the soundstage criticism is my only one for 009). The tone is shrill and sibilant, and the overall effect is not very transparent, not especially neutral, and certainly not euphonic. In the Benchmark school of sound, they seem to be harsh for the sake of being harsh. Also, single ended for the sake of being single ended.

I guess it depends on the whole setup.
On mine I do not recognize this description of the AKG. For me it is clear, airy, sweet sounding, not shrill or sibilant at all.

 

[Danz03]

Agreed, I never find the K812 sibilant, unlike the HD800, they are so sibilant with pop and rock music I find it hard to bare, and the lack of bass limits them to be good with only classical and acoustic music for me. However, the K812 are difinitely suited to pairing with tube amps in my opinion.

I guess it depends on the whole setup.
On mine I do not recognize this description of the AKG. For me it is clear, airy, sweet sounding, not shrill or sibilant at all.

 

[drews]

I guess it depends on the whole setup.
On mine I do not recognize this description of the AKG. For me it is clear, airy, sweet sounding, not shrill or sibilant at all.

 
I agree - I have an HD800 in my collection but I rarely listen to it.  I think many dismiss the K812 without ever hearing it - I've owned 100+ headphones and these are my favorites.

 

[up late]

that looks like a sweeping generalisation to me

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

I really wanted to like k812. Akg was an incredible company and we need more great headphone companies to stay great. Unfortunately I didn't hear a hifi sound. I'll certainly try them at the next meet, on all the gear I can, but given my biases, prejudices, preferences, what I had for lunch, etc, I was unable to come to a place where what I heard approached hd800 in tone, transparency, or musicality. The best I can do is to walk back sibilant to merely sharp.

 

[xxx1313]

Try AKG K812 with a warm sounding tube amp oder with AK380Cu+CuAmp. This is a perfect match! Of course the K812 has still a rather small soundstage, but the positioning of voices is simply perfect. This is the perfect headphone for monitoring, but it is relentless with neutral or bright gear and bad recordings.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

I mean, I heard it with the WA22SE, Woo's top-of-the-line 5.5k tube amp, which was quite euphonic with HD800, and their own DAC (I'm not familiar with it). I used my own lossless recordings—Ride of the Valkyries with the Cleveland Orchestra, Beethoven's Grosse Fugue with the Lasalle Quartet, Emil Gilels playing the Waldstein Sonata, James Levine and the LSO doing overture to La Forza del Destino, Böhm and Bayreuth doing the Forging Scene from Siegfried. 
 
If the pitch is that k812 is "easy to drive" (like LCD-X/C, and unlike HD800), I should not be tearing my hair out with a buttery smooth amp that's a downpayment on a tesla. As I say, I will continue to hear it every chance I get, but the sound quality does not thus far justify its price to me. Its imaging was not an improvement on HD800 and certainly not K1000, which remains in my view the best thing AKG ever made.

 

[Danz03]

I wonder what your definition of a HiFi sound is, if you mean a hi-fedility sound then HD800 definitely fare worse in my opinion; as it can never produce a bass guitar or a kick drum faithfully, not even near; hi hats and cymbals become unbearable bright. I can agree that some ppl might love the sound signature of HD800, but calling it neutral or transparent sounding cannot be true. I really want to like my HD800 but they hurt my ears everytime I listen to them. K812 may not be perfect but to me they sound much much better, and the soundstage is nearly as good as the HD800's.

I really wanted to like k812. Akg was an incredible company and we need more great headphone companies to stay great. Unfortunately I didn't hear a hifi sound. I'll certainly try them at the next meet, on all the gear I can, but given my biases, prejudices, preferences, what I had for lunch, etc, I was unable to come to a place where what I heard approached hd800 in tone, transparency, or musicality. The best I can do is to walk back sibilant to merely sharp.

 

[MortenB]

I fully agree with you Danz03, spot on comparison between HD800 and K812.
 
I also really wanted to like the HD800, but found them way to thin and bright. I ended up buying the K812, not without their flaws, but to me much better...

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

I wonder what your definition of a HiFi sound is, if you mean a hi-fedility sound then HD800 definitely fare worse in my opinion; as it can never produce a bass guitar or a kick drum faithfully, not even near; hi hats and cymbals become unbearable bright. I can agree that some ppl might love the sound signature of HD800, but calling it neutral or transparent sounding cannot be true. I really want to like my HD800 but they hurt my ears everytime I listen to them. K812 may not be perfect but to me they sound much much better, and the soundstage is nearly as good as the HD800's.

I cannot comment except with respect to classical music. I tried to give as many disclaimers and caveats in my appraisal as I could. Though for other genres I would sooner recommend an he6. Listening to Katy perry sing roar at the dnc was spectacular.

 

[Schonen]

I dismissed them because they are $2,200.00 in Canada. I would rather buy Q701 for a reasonable $350.00 CAD.

 

[Danz03]

With regards to classical music, or most acoustic music, the HD800 are really excellent sounding (as long as the recording do not have too much tape or background noise), they do enchance acoustic instruments and make them sound alive and with widened soundstage, not unlike what the vintage Aphex aural exciter does. But for any other genres of music, the lack in bass is really apparent. Some ppl refer to them as reference headphones which I can never ever agree with, to me reference headphones should be accurate throughout the whole sound spectrum and not just above 100 Hz.

To me, I'd consider LCD-X or MrSpeakers Ether reference headphones, but K812 are quite balanced sounding and a pleasure to listen to music of all genres with, especially when paired with a tube amp. The only con is that one cannot use them with a balanced amp although the soundstage is quiet natural and wide sounding even single ended ones.

As for HiFiMan's headphones, I never liked the old range they had but I recently auditioned the HE1000 and Edition X. To me, the HE1000 do sound very detail and nice but lacking in bass whereas the X has too much bass but not enough details.

I cannot comment except with respect to classical music. I tried to give as many disclaimers and caveats in my appraisal as I could. Though for other genres I would sooner recommend an he6. Listening to Katy perry sing roar at the dnc was spectacular.

I fully agree with you Danz03, spot on comparison between HD800 and K812.
I also really wanted to like the HD800, but found them way to thin and bright. I ended up buying the K812, not without their flaws, but to me much better...

 

[Danz03]

CAD 2,200 seems a bit too much of the K812! They cost around USD 1,000 in Hong Kong the last time I saw them in the shop. To me, Q701 are quite lacking in bass.

I dismissed them because they are $2,200.00 in Canada. I would rather buy Q701 for a reasonable $350.00 CAD.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

CAD 2,200 seems a bit too much of the K812! They cost around USD 1,000 in Hong Kong the last time I saw them in the shop. To me, Q701 are quite lacking in bass.

I think we're talking past one another. You seem to like a lot more bass than I do, which as a personal preference is no better or worse than any other. I find Q701 an excellent value for the money (mine were $220 off amazon). @DavidMahler is on the record as giving HD800 the crown as Neutrality King in his well-regarded battle of the flagships, which you have every right to disagree with, but which I know many people consider definitive. (Again, bassheads simply feel a different sound signature best captures their music.) The question to my mind is less about objective transparency or neutrality and more about which cans make your music sound best to you.