[Fegefeuer]

Dr.Fang (very ambitious but also very humble guy btw) said it himself when I asked him at the HIGH END in Munich last year. Headphones will get much lighter in general, they are experimenting a lot and invested heavily into R&D, better assembly etc.

 

[figaro69]

  Dr.Fang (very ambitious but also very humble guy btw) said it himself when I asked him at the HIGH END in Munich last year. Headphones will get much lighter in general, they are experimenting a lot and invested heavily into R&D, better assembly etc.

Hah! straight from the horse's mouth...I like what I hear.  I hope the new ones don't have the grip of death that the HE-6s have.  Moreover, they could work a bit more on the way they look.  Lastly, they better not be pigs to drive like the HE-6s...I'm in no mood for another "can only be driven by a vintage receiver out of the speaker tabs" headphone!!!

 

[Sonido]

I'm not surprised. From a business standpoint, the market is completely different from even 5 years ago. Consumers are interested in higher fidelity sounds thanks in part to Beats and other consumer headphones sounding better than ear buds that come with iPods. Even established audiophile companies cannot ignore this. You have to appeal to a wider market to continue being successful. Sure old school high impedance hard to drive headphones may still sound the best when driven properly, but for larger market appeal it makes more sense to still reproduce good sound with much less hassle, no frills in the gear you need for your chain. Sure there are good sounding, good looking headphones that bridge the gap like Sennheiser Momentum or B&W P7. But it's far more likely the people who like those would go for an easy to drive TOTL like the K812 than something like the HD800. Heck for myself coming from the HD598 that didn't need an amp, I chose the HD700 over the HD800 mostly because I had read how amp picky the HD800 is. I have since upgraded my chain and own the HD800, and it's far superior than the HD700, but for those from the mass consumer market without the gear looking for high fidelity, a no frills headphone like the K812 is far more appealing.

 

[money4me247]

  where did you hear about or read about it?  Is it just rumors, or is it for a fact?

There was an article about this. it's in the he400 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-impressions-and-discussion-thread/15180#post_10062580

 

[figaro69]

  There was an article about this. it's in the he400 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-impressions-and-discussion-thread/15180#post_10062580

Thanks.

 

[cucera]

It looks like I am the only one here who doesn't view the K812 to be easy to drive. Yes it can be played deafeningly loud out of the ipad, but it is areally picky HP regarding the quality of the amp. I am amazed myself, because I am more in the objectivist camp.
But with Ipad and K812 I experience an analytical nearly harsh sounding HP. With the Objective2 and Hifi M8 it gets hardly better. Evenually it feels right with Bryston BHA-1 and the most musical sound I get from the Violectric V200.
It is really weird taking into account all of them have near 0Ohm output impedance.

 

[Blackmore]

From the start I found such message absurd, that they will shine from such poor sources, but now you point it out and this make Harman looks like idiots with such promotion.
 
I think these headphones need a lot of burn in hours, talking about 500, and, of course, high quality source and amp to handle them. Hopefully, the fresh owners will do that and share later their burn in experience, what ever they sonically change or not.
 
 
THX

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

I think some people have been deluding themselves into thinking the HD800s need an expensive amplifier. They don't and you only think they do because of the bias many here have to preferring slightly elevated bass and slightly de-emphasised smooth treble. The HD800s are not euphonic  because they are reference headphones which have a different goal in mind.
 
I'm incredibly sceptical of the "new generation of headphones". The Beats market is in the <$400 range, closed portable headphone range and I don't see any evidence of it spilling over into flagship, home listening which is 3x more expensive. No doubt every audio company out there is trying to bring out new headphones in the Beats market area but I don't see how this has any relevance to the K812s and other flagship headphones. Perhaps I'm wrong and it turns out there are a lot of people that want to spend $1500 on headphones to drive them out of their smartphone. There has always been a disconnect between home audio enthusiasts and mass market consumers.
 
Sennheiser are most likely going to release some electrostatic headphones because at the moment not much can be done to improve the HD800s design. It's also good to see that orthodynamics are improving and getting lighter.

 

[Blackmore]

May I ask you which amp are you referring to please?
 
THX
 
 
 
Quote:

  I think some people have been deluding themselves into thinking the HD800s need an expensive amplifier.
 
 
 

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

The point I'm making is that it is ok to find the HD800s sterile, bright and lacking euphony because this is how they sound when using "wire with gain" equipment. They are what I'd consider "true reference" headphones in that though they have too much treble without EQ, they didn't compromise on their design so it matches peoples subjective tastes. Whether a reference headphone sounds good is irrelevant to the design goals of a reference headphone. Reference headphones are meant to reproduce the signal as accurately as possible and for many people here they don't like how that sounds. That's understandable and there is nothing wrong with that. So people use amplifiers to change the signal to something they find more enjoyable and that's fine. I just think it's important that when people say X headphone needs expensive amplifiers they add the caveat that they need expensive amplifiers to produce a sound more enjoyable to them. You don't need super expensive equipment.
 
I'm sure that the engineers at AKG didn't care how good the K812s sounded out of a portable media player, the high sensitivity wasn't a design goal but came about as an additional benefit while they tried to make the best reference headphone they could out of their constraints. I don't think that there is any desire for people to make highly sensitive reference headphones as long as they don't cross over into HE-6 territory.
 
I doubt there is a "new generation" at all outside of orthodynamics where sensitivity and weight are huge concerns. Sennheiser will release some electrostatics that will probably be technically better than the SR-009s which will be great for everyone except Stax. Dynamic headphones will generally stay the same as the technology has hit it's peak for the moment. Audio companies will try to market like Beats with mixed success. Perhaps, audio companies will try to build a marketing bridge from the $400 range to flagship level home audio in the mass consumer market. I'd be impressed if they succeeded. AKG will probably try and build a newer K812 that performs technically better.

 

[Acix]

  The point I'm making is that it is ok to find the HD800s sterile, bright and lacking euphony because this is how they sound when using "wire with gain" equipment. They are what I'd consider "true reference" headphones in that though they have too much treble without EQ, they didn't compromise on their design so it matches peoples subjective tastes. Whether a reference headphone sounds good is irrelevant to the design goals of a reference headphone. Reference headphones are meant to reproduce the signal as accurately as possible and for many people here they don't like how that sounds. That's understandable and there is nothing wrong with that. So people use amplifiers to change the signal to something they find more enjoyable and that's fine. I just think it's important that when people say X headphone needs expensive amplifiers they add the caveat that they need expensive amplifiers to produce a sound more enjoyable to them. You don't need super expensive equipment.
 
I'm sure that the engineers at AKG didn't care how good the K812s sounded out of a portable media player, the high sensitivity wasn't a design goal but came about as an additional benefit while they tried to make the best reference headphone they could out of their constraints. I don't think that there is any desire for people to make highly sensitive reference headphones as long as they don't cross over into HE-6 territory.
 
I doubt there is a "new generation" at all outside of orthodynamics where sensitivity and weight are huge concerns. Sennheiser will release some electrostatics that will probably be technically better than the SR-009s which will be great for everyone except Stax. Dynamic headphones will generally stay the same as the technology has hit it's peak for the moment. Audio companies will try to market like Beats with mixed success. Perhaps, audio companies will try to build a marketing bridge from the $400 range to flagship level home audio in the mass consumer market. I'd be impressed if they succeeded. AKG will probably try and build a newer K812 that performs technically better.

 
 
True reference hps do not need any EQ treble adjustments!
 
BTW, AKG do care about the sound quality out of portable devices, because some of the pro recording equipment and monitoring equipment on the market have the same hps output quality as the portable devices. As well the K-812 needs to sound good also outside of the headfi community, this mean AKG target the pro musical market, and not necessary the headfiers. LOL, they just got it wrong with the price.
 
I highly recommend you should try out some tube amps with your 800s, this should roll off the 800s treble spike and add some bass to sweet the deal.

 

[xaval]

  I'm sure that the engineers at AKG didn't care how good the K812s sounded out of a portable media player, the high sensitivity wasn't a design goal but came about as an additional benefit while they tried to make the best reference headphone they could out of their constraints. I don't think that there is any desire for people to make highly sensitive reference headphones as long as they don't cross over into HE-6 territory.
 
 

I'm not so sure. From business POV anything that's mass produced, is looking to a sales funnel and profit. It would be great for a non geek to just buy a great sounding headphone without having to read loads of opinions about system, amps and sources.
 
Mobile devices can stream almost anything that you want these days. Plug and Play. From a mobility perspective a high end heaphone plug onto a smartphone is a good deal. I wear a suit everyday and most of them cost as much as these totl cans. Do "I" really want to ruin the cut lugging around wierd stuff (amp/dac/cables)?

 

[matthewpl]

  I'm not so sure. From business POV anything that's mass produced, is looking to a sales funnel and profit. It would be great for a non geek to just buy a great sounding headphone without having to read loads of opinions about system, amps and sources.
 
Mobile devices can stream almost anything that you want these days. Plug and Play. From a mobility perspective a high end heaphone plug onto a smartphone is a good deal. I wear a suit everyday and most of them cost as much as these totl cans. Do "I" really want to ruin the cut lugging around wierd stuff (amp/dac/cables)?

I see only one problem: who really need high end (open) headphones connected to smartphone? "Normal" person probably would like to have something cheaper, smaller (IEMs even) and probably closed to have on-the-go.
And if you are able to but high end headphones you probably already have some dac/amp.

 

[Claritas]

Maybe arguments about reference are beside the point. I'm quite dubious of the term, as I am of "monitoring," "professional," "signature," &c. My T-shirts come with a tiny bit of paper saying "inspected by 29," but the proof is in the wearing.

How K812 sounds is the equivalent in this conversation to asking "but how does she look?!" when some buddy is telling you about a lady. I don't care if her name is Maureen or Fatima and how rich her family is: She'd better be hot. So forget the name and the price, and hear it for yourself (or discuss the sound vicariously, as a fantasy).

 

[xaval]

I see and understand your point. The thing is the world has "normal" people and "not so normal" people. I have friends with highish to high income. They care for headphones (now) and speakers (big). That's it. If you commute you'll notice that most people don't carry closed headphones - they can't even grasp the concept of open, closed or semi-closed (or vented like Grado calls the X). "Cheaper" is related to your disposable income and must-have hobby stuff - you can't simply price that. But this is whole argumentary is OT. I'm following this thread with interest and tizziness.