[paulchiu]

Has anyone compared AKG K812 with the Fostex TH-900 or the Audeze LCD-3?

 

[sfwalcer]

  From a not so experienced ear.
 
With 2 hours of listening and compare to HD800s, I felt like K812s go with different presentation of music (laid back? kind of. Maybe not try to grab your attention a lot).
If I were to describe HD800s' presentation, it is more pin point accurate and smaller sound block like scaling a properly set upped pair of hi-fi speakers into your "head stage"(not sound stage).
K812 also has a fairly accurate "head stage"( pin point location at my head but muddled compare to HD800). Sound block is much bigger.
 
K812s and HD650s have a very similar presentation IMO, except K812 is more neutral compared to HD650's dark sound. They both have big sound block in my "head stage".
K812s' measurement are quite similar to HD650 in terms of square wave response and THD. Objectively, I will say K812 is not even into most high end headphones performance league, but subjectively, I like the presentation of K812 because I like the presentation of HD650. To me its more musical and not too analytical, you can enjoy music with it but for monitoring and recording K712 is better IMO. Worth the money? no, absolutely no. HD650 can get very close performance according to the measurement.(If directly compare the graphs.. I might say HD650 are in the same tier as K812...)
I think a lot people will love K812s' sound, but not at that price.
BTW, HD800 is also overpriced IMO.
 
Sennheiser HD650
 
AKG 812
 
Sennheiser HD800
 
AKG K712

^ Oh WOW that's the most interesting/ informative impressions i have read so far regarding these AKGs. Thanks a bunch!!!

 

[Acix]

 

[figaro69]

 

yes indeedy-do!

 

[thune]

   
I'm no so sure.
 
AKG K812 measurements.
 
AKG K701 Measurements 
 
Transient response is very tizzy on the 812. 
 
I don't think I'll be reviewing them...just not good enough, don't want to bash AKG though.

Tyll,
If there was ever a free pass to bash a headphone that you apparently think represents a trend of underachievement in the $1k-$2k space, it would be with this single-hulled flagship from an unsinkable company (Harman). Yes I understand that a small scale headphone company could fold or wither under the kind of review you envision; that's not the case here. This is the time and place to make your stand.  You took on Beats in the $200-$400 space to make a point: I can sense that you have an epic/awesome/i-AM-a-writer scathing review brewing in your mind that NEEDS to come out. DO IT.

 

[Blackmore]

Are you kidding?
 
Quote:

  Tyll,
If there was ever a free pass to bash a headphone that you apparently think represents a trend of underachievement in the $1k-$2k space, it would be with a single-hulled flagship from an unsinkable company (Harman). Yes I understand that a small scale headphone company could fold or wither under the kind of review you envision; that's not the case here. This is the time and place to make your stand.  You took on Beats in the $200-$400 space to make a point: I can sense that you have an epic/awesome/i-AM-a-writer scathing review brewing in your mind that NEEDS to come out. DO IT.

 
 
 
Quote:

   
What is "tizzy" btw? I tried google but didn't get much results.

 

[sfwalcer]

  Tyll,
If there was ever a free pass to bash a headphone that you apparently think represents a trend of underachievement in the $1k-$2k space, it would be with a single-hulled flagship from an unsinkable company (Harman). Yes I understand that a small scale headphone company could fold or wither under the kind of review you envision; that's not the case here. This is the time and place to make your stand.  You took on Beats in the $200-$400 space to make a point: I can sense that you have an epic/awesome/i-AM-a-writer scathing review brewing in your mind that NEEDS to come out. DO IT.

^

 
On that note......

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[TheDuke990]

Originally Posted by JeWorms /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think a lot people will love K812s' sound, but not at that price.
BTW, HD800 is also overpriced IMO.

 
But this is valid for a lot of "high-end" headphones. Same for Audeze LCD-2. The sound is not nearly neutral. It is dark and veiled. Okay the bass quantity is amazing but the quality not and treble are more or less not really present.
If I have to decide between e.g. HD800 and LCD-2, I will pig the HD800 for sure. Hint: till last year the price of HD800 and LCD-2 are the same in Germany.
 
I think it depends on your own preferences. Neutral sound or laid back. Maybe it depends on the country you came from. In Germany we like the more neutral sound and in US it seems you like the warm sound.
 
I will get mine AKG 812 this week and looking forward to the comparision with my HD800.

 

[jude]

I've known Tyll a long time, and I respect his reviews and measurements. With respect to his measurements, I particularly appreciate how up-front he's been about his measurement setup and his methods, even inviting MacedonianHero (a Six Sigma expert) to evaluate his headphone measurement repeatability and reproducibility. When I want to look at headphone measurements, he's my go-to.
 
That said, I don't judge a headphone until I've heard it. I've heard the K812, and I think this is a headphone that sounds damn good, despite the conclusions his graphs have helped lead him to. Recall also that, independent of his measurements, he also said these things about the K812:
 

 
...I find the overall balance of the K812 better than the HD800, which to me lacks a little warmth in the bass...

 
And:
 

 
...I think these are markedly better sounding than the T1...

 
No headphones are loved by all here, but those are two headphones that are loved by many here--headphones that many have built their reference rigs around.
 
Now, mind you, he also said this:
 

  Hi Jude. Just to clarify: I find them a "bit" tizzy. Sounds to me something like there's always a triangle (the instrument) in the treble. I find it modestly fatiguing...

 
As I said before, I have no reason to doubt he's hearing what he's hearing--and seeing what he's seeing (on his graphs)--but I'm not hearing the triangle thing he described (and am not sure what "tizzy" means).
 
I agree that it's not as resolving as the HD 800--there are very few headphones I've used that are. But the AKG K812 is still a very resolving headphone to my ears. For most of the day, I tend to listen at lower volume levels, and find the K812 one of the rare headphones that can still deliver a lot of resolution at low volume levels. In my experience, some headphones simply don't come into their own until they're pushed a bit louder than I typically like to listen for extended periods, and this certainly isn't one of them.
 
I find the K812 to also image very impressively, with the type of wide-open airiness that the HD 800 has, and with precise, solid image placement that approaches it. I still haven't spent any real time with the K812 in my main rigs since it arrived--I've not been sitting in one place too much lately--but I've been enjoying the heck out of this headphone most often from the Meridian Explorer and the Fostex HP-A4 so far, both of which I'm not as inclined to use with the HD 800.
 
I've seen the measurements. I've also seen the measurements of the vintage AKG K 340, and they haven't affected my opinion of that headphone either.
 
If you get a chance, give the AKG K812 a listen. If the opportunity to do that isn't likely to present itself, then wait and see how the K812 fares after others get a chance to listen to it, before you start jumping to any conclusions about it. As far as the number posting sonic impressions, so far n equals a very small number. Like the aforementioned HD 800 and T 1, I predict the K812 will also have a very loyal following--and, like the others (like pretty much all others), it won't be universally loved either.

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

Still the measurements don't lie and while you may like the sound subjectively, for a reference headphone at such a steep price it is not good. It's also about what AKG intended to make and you would think that they would be trying to make a reference headphone that would surpass the HD800s. The HD650s are not reference headphones, many like the sound, but AKG is not marketing this for an enjoyable listening experience. In quote from their website:
 

 The K812 superior reference headphones offer the most pure and natural sound possible. Designed for music professionals the K812 empower to experience the smallest sonic details with the most accurate balance for mixing, mastering as well as music production.

 
I'm ultimately disappointed. I hoped that there would be some actual competition at the flagship level (something that is severely lacking) but I don't think the K812s are even going to worry Sennheiser. The HD800s are known for their imaging, resolution and soundstage and it's not enough the for the K812s to be good, they should be better. AKG aren't even offering better value and it doesn't take a huge amount of time to get a pair of used HD800s for $1000-$1200.

 

[Audio-Omega]

Has K812 got more bass than Sennheiser HD800 ?

 

[up late]

had high hopes for these cans. will wait for more opinions from folk who've heard them to start rolling in.

 

[figaro69]

I'm losing interest by the second given Tyll's impressions/measurements and the fact that I got my LCD-Xs last week and consider them to be THE PERFECT headphones.  By the way, is NOMAX a shill for Harman Kardon?  Just wondering.

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

  Has K812 got more bass than Sennheiser HD800 ?

 
Frequency response for the K812 and HD800 show the bass to similar. However, the K812s have significantly higher harmonic distortion in that region.

 

[JWahl]

The measurements are a funny thing. I'm still scratching my head that the K712 seems to have better measurements. I'd still like to see some csd plots as well though. I also pulled up some other headphones measurements as well and it seems the K812 does in fact measure slightly better than the T1.  However, I also looked up the HD700 which has been controversial (I haven't heard it) and it's measurements were actually decent besides the peaky treble.  I may still roll the dice on these eventually though to try a different dynamic than the hd800 that is likely better than the T1.  Even if I have to apply a little damping. 
 
I never disliked the T1 when I had it. Just felt it was slightly overpriced and required some cup damping. It could just be that perceived effects of certain measurements may be exaggerated.   Though I do think CSD plots are a pretty solid way of predicting excess resonances.  There has to be something missing from the equation though.  I can not imagine them being a lateral move from the K712. And the K712 has thoroughly impressed me for the $385 I paid.