[gridlock]

This is my first foray into the headphone world.  I am a music lover and have had a variety of very good stereo equipment over the years, but never headphones.  My situation has changed recently with my girlfriend and her daughter living with me, so no more late night music sessions using my stereo system.  I listen to a variety of music including singer-songwriter, folk, rock, classical, jazz, etc.
 
I did a lot of research into headphones & amps before taking the plunge, and decided on the AKG K702 and Matrix M-Stage amp.  This will be connected from a Tact 2.2XP preamp/DAC, with digital sources coming from mainly a Sonos ZP80 via it's coax digital output playing CD resolution FLAC files from a networked drive.  I use the same front-end with my stereo system with very good results.
 
Until the M-Stage arrives though, I am using a Behringer SRC2496 DAC connected directly to the Sonos box via a 15 foot digital optical wire.  The headphones are connected to the Behringer's headphone jack.
 
I have been breaking in the K702's with a variety of music which is playing 24x7 so far for about two days.  So far I am quite disappointed with what I am hearing.  Although quite a few have reported a somewhat lean bass (and I hear this as well), the problems lie more in other areas; namely missing weight somewhere in the midrange which makes vocals sound very thin, and missing sparkle in the upper treble.  This combination makes the music seem quite lifeless and uninvolving.
 
Have others experienced this?  Could this be more an issue with my current electronic arrangement, which may be rectified when the M-Stage arrives?  Do the K702's sound that much better given enough time to break-in?

 

[soundaddicted]

Im confused, do you own the 702's or the 701's? The thread title does not make sense. 

 

[ukkisavosta]

Quote:

Im confused, do you own the 702's or the 701's? The thread title does not make sense. 

Doesn't really matter - they're basically the same.

 

[EddieE]

[size=x-small]If you twist the pads off you will see that the only kind of filtering the K70* has is a very open cell donut of foam.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]If you want more weight, just add more filtering.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]Type "Friend or Foe k701" into the search bar and you'll find a thread with various posters trying different things.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]It's very tunable so just use trail and error to fine tune it to your tastes.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]You will lose sound stage as you gain weight but even with them very dark and heavy they still have more soundstage than most other phones.[/size]

 

[lejaz]

Your musical preferences coincide pretty much to mine, and I've noticed the exact same issue with the 702. Others have also noticed it, even on better set ups. You hit the nail on the head....missing weight in the midrange, making vocals sound somewhat thin and pale and diffused. I notice the same issue with some acoustic instruments...sounding too thin. I also hear an upper midrange peak that makes them awfully bright with some material. Glad to hear that I'm not imagining things!
 
Quote:

This is my first foray into the headphone world.  I am a music lover and have a variety of very good stereo equipment over the years, but never headphones.  My situation has changed recently with my girlfriend and her daughter living with me, so no more late night music sessions using my stereo system.  I listen to a variety of music including singer-songwriter, folk, rock, classical, jazz, etc.
 
I did a lot of research into headphones & amps before taking the plunge, and decided on the AKG K702 and Matrix M-Stage amp.  This will be connected from a Tact 2.2XP preamp/DAC, with digital sources coming from mainly a Sonos ZP80 via it's coax digital output playing CD resolution FLAC files from a networked drive.  I use the same front-end with my stereo system with very good results.
 
Until the M-Stage arrives though, I am using a Behringer SRC2496 DAC connected directly to the Sonos box via a 15 foot digital optical wire.  The headphones are connected to the Behringer's headphone jack.
 
I have been breaking in the K701's with a variety of music which is playing 24x7 so far for about two days.  So far I am quite disappointed with what I am hearing.  Although quite a few have reported a somewhat lean bass (and I hear this as well), the problems lie more in other areas; namely missing weight somewhere in the midrange which makes vocals sound very thin, and missing sparkle in the upper treble.  This combination makes the music seem quite lifeless and uninvolving.
 
Have others experienced this?  Could this be more an issue with my current electronic arrangement, which may be rectified when the M-Stage arrives?  Do the K701's sound that much better given enough time to break-in?

 

[gridlock]

Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

Im confused, do you own the 702's or the 701's? The thread title does not make sense. 

I meant the 702's.  I edited the original post.
 
Quote:

[size=x-small]If you twist the pads off you will see that the only kind of filtering the K70* has is a very open cell donut of foam.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]If you want more weight, just add more filtering.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]Type "Friend or Foe k701" into the search bar and you'll find a thread with various posters trying different things.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]It's very tunable so just use trail and error to fine tune it to your tastes.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]You will lose sound stage as you gain weight but even with them very dark and heavy they still have more soundstage than most other phones.[/size]

Interesting; thanks for the info and link.  The problem I see though with adding more foam is won't that diminish the high treble even more?  As I mentioned, I thought that besides some weight missing in the midrange, there seems to be a lack of upper treble sparkle.  I'm concerned that additional foam will diminish this even more.
 
Quote:

Your musical preferences coincide pretty much to mine, and I've noticed the exact same issue with the 702. Others have also noticed it, even on better set ups. You hit the nail on the head....missing weight in the midrange, making vocals sound somewhat thin and pale and diffused. I notice the same issue with some acoustic instruments...sounding too thin. I also hear an upper midrange peak that makes them awfully bright with some material. Glad to hear that I'm not imagining things!

Do you still use the 702's? Have you heard other phones which sound much better in these areas?  I've been reading a lot about the Audeze LCD-2, and although much more expensive, seems like a good value.  If the 702's don't change much with the M-Stage amp and a lot of break-in hours, I'll be looking to replace them quickly.

 

[Alu]

I can only tell you that I noticed an improvement, certainly in the lower range, when pairing a dedicated meier headphone amp with the AKG K701s, as opposed to having them plugged into my rotel's headphone out. I was also using a bel canto DAC 2 as a source.
However, the main problem I had with them was that they tired me out after listening to them for longer periods of time. Not to say that they aren't decent headphones, but they were missing something.
They are extremely great at reproducing the high range of any audio recording, that's at least how I remember them to be, but for the type of music I used them for (jazz, classical, some rock) they weren't very satisfying.
 
A friend of mine was using them on a tube amp (believe that was a woo audio one), and while I never listened to them myself, he said that that sort of balance was making them shine.

 

[ArmAndHammer]

I'm another one in the same boat. Got my K701's used with between 100-200 hours on them so they are well on the way to being broken in. I am using them with my Little Dot 1+ amp and KECES DA-151 DAC. The amp is pretty warm and does not seem to be a good match with the 701's and this has been confirmed by others here as well. So...when taxes come I am going to get an M-Stage and give these cans one more try before I write them off. I listen to the same music types and have about the same feelings about the headphones as well. My cure...listen to my Grados. 

 

[gridlock]

Quote:

I'm another one in the same boat. Got my K701's used with between 100-200 hours on them so they are well on the way to being broken in. I am using them with my Little Dot 1+ amp and KECES DA-151 DAC. The amp is pretty warm and does not seem to be a good match with the 701's and this has been confirmed by others here as well. So...when taxes come I am going to get an M-Stage and give these cans one more try before I write them off. I listen to the same music types and have about the same feelings about the headphones as well. My cure...listen to my Grados. 

 
I'm wating for delivery of an M-Stage as we speak, so I'll post about any differences I hear with that amp.  I just can't imagine it would make THAT much of a difference that it would correct the problems that I'm hearing.  I have been researching this more, and apparantly others have felt the same way about these phones (I didn't see those posts before purchasing).  I wish there was a place closer where I can hear some other phones; may need to take a trip down to NYC.
 

 

[ArmAndHammer]

Yeah...I read so many people saying that they were such a fantastic headphone but they are very amp dependent. So I am really hoping that an amp DOES make that much difference, at least in this case. If the sound is only slightly improved over what it is now...I'll be selling them for sure. Don't get me wrong, I think the 701's I have with my current setup sounds pretty decent, but not great and not what I think a $250+ set of headphones should sound like. There are a couple others I would like to try before I call it good so if these don't work I'll move on to the next ones on the list.
 
But seeing how we are in a very similar situation...I look forward to your impressions of the M-Stage once it arrives.

 

[BournePerfect]

If you really did lots of research like you say (not saying you didn't), you'd know that:
 
1.) They are EXTREMELY amp dependent. The Matrix (with op627 into Class 'A') is perfect.
 
2.) They need at LEAST 300 hours of burn-in. Minimum. They will even improve beyond that, but that is where most improvements will occur.
 
So sit tight, and give us your impressions in about another three weeks.
 
-Daniel

 

[gridlock]

Quote:

If you really did lots of research like you say (not saying you didn't), you'd know that:
 
1.) They are EXTREMELY amp dependent. The Matrix (with op627 into Class 'A') is perfect.
 
2.) They need at LEAST 300 hours of burn-in. Minimum. They will even improve beyond that, but that is where most improvements will occur.
 
So sit tight, and give us your impressions in about another three weeks.
 
-Daniel

 
I am getting the M-Stage, but not with the opamp class A mod.  I wanted to try it stock first before adding any mods.
 
I have heard about these phones needing burn-in time, and that may be so, but to be honest with you I've always been skeptical of people claiming such drastic changes with bun-in.  I have heard slight changes with burn-in in speakers, but never with electronics.  I do hope you are correct though, and that a combination of good amp and burn-in will make all the difference.
 
Oh, and I will sit tight for a while...

 

 

[BournePerfect]

Quote:

Quote:

If you really did lots of research like you say (not saying you didn't), you'd know that:
 
1.) They are EXTREMELY amp dependent. The Matrix (with op627 into Class 'A') is perfect.
 
2.) They need at LEAST 300 hours of burn-in. Minimum. They will even improve beyond that, but that is where most improvements will occur.
 
So sit tight, and give us your impressions in about another three weeks.
 
-Daniel

 
I am getting the M-Stage, but not with the opamp class A mod.  I wanted to try it stock first before adding any mods.
 
I have heard about these phones needing burn-in time, and that may be so, but to be honest with you I've always been skeptical of people claiming such drastic changes with bun-in.  I have heard slight changes with burn-in in speakers, but never with electronics.  I do hope you are correct though, and that a combination of good amp and burn-in will make all the difference.
 
Oh, and I will sit tight for a while...

 

Good lol. I hope I didn't come across angry or anything, that wasn't my intention. Trust me, I was a burn in sceptic until the k702s proved me wrong-in a BIG way. And if you noticed improvement with speaker burn in, why not with headphones?? I also must admit I never tried the m-stage in stock form-I immediately plugged in the Browndog/OP627 from the get-go. I got the latter from coolfungadget, and a few people have said that his OP627 is probably fake because it sounds bad/congested/terrible etc, especially compared to the legit ones, which sell for a lot more. To think my combo could have sounded better...?  

!!!
 
-Daniel

 

 

[V-DiV]

The K70x's do require a long burn-in.  If you've only been burning them for a couple of days you are not close to hearing them how they will sound.  Big changes in the first hundred hours or so.  They will never have a lot of bass, but a very good quality bass.  In the end I also took to a small amount of EQ to slightly elevate the bass and slightly decrease the lower treble.  I was quite enjoying them for what I listen to, as you, classical, jazz, acoustic.  My use of the past tense is because I've been listening to my new HD 800s while burning them in for the last 10 days.  It's almost time to go back to my K701 to do a close comparison.  You will enjoy your K702s when you get a good amp with the power to drive them.

 

[Yuceka]

I am using my new K 701s with M-Stage for about a week now. I switched from HD650 to AKGs. I am sure Senn boys will tell me that I've made a mistake but so far I am really enjoying the classical and jazz I've listened to with K 701s. I've tried them with progressive rock and other genres like that and preferred my AH-D7000. From the first day, they have never blown me away but the more I listen to them, the more I get used to them. First of all, their soundstage is amazing. Right now i'll stick to the M-Stage which seems to be doing a pretty good job of driving them but it feels like they can be driven better with a better amp. When I have the cash, I'll try Lyr or Concerto, if I still don't like them then, it's time to sell them, but I am not giving up on them so easily. I am sure for a 250 bucks cans, they have a lot to offer.