[bhanja_trinanjan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverskull /img/forum/go_quote.gif well my problem is that i don't have an amp yet.i will set up a new thread when my amp's here to share with every1 the amp that i've been anticipating.currently the enclosure's just been ordered and parts are coming one by one.i must say that indeed the 702's are good headphones but unfortunately i do not have many friends who are such audiophiles like me to own something like a HD600 or 650,thus i don't have the opportunity to try one.would like to try one sumday and compare it with the sound signature of my 702's.

How does it compare to your Shure SE530? (Your sig says you have one)

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Olblueyez... won't you answer my questions on the HD650-tube amp synergy? (See my earlier post)

Reply #100

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with him, though my post refers to all phones, not merely this one. There's a grand delusion on this forum that if you simply spend enough money on ancillary equipment (amps, sources, cables...), you'll eventually learn to appreciate phones you find flawed. Of course, it's often couched in nebulous terms like "finding the RIGHT amp" or "achieving synchrony", etc, but the premise is the same, and, in my opinion, ultimately false. If you like a truly enjoy pair of headphones, you can enjoy them anywhere, any time, with any equipment. If you truly dislike a pair, no amount of equipment will change this, although the grand delusion insists otherwise.

Experience replaced with ideology...unfortionaly this apply to you too.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhanja_trinanjan /img/forum/go_quote.gif All the while I listen to my K701, I literally hunt for flaws. I play a track… rush to my home Hifi and play it there… run back and don the K701… Hard as I can try, I still don’t see the devil in the K701. Yes, it does sound different from my Cambridge-Wharfedale combo, and I have covered those differences before… but do the K701s sound bad, boring and sterile? HELL NO! I just wonder why bashing these cans are so fashionable these days! (No offense meant, please!) Sorry I didn't see your question, I would never ignore you like that purposely. Regarding the synergy of the HD650 with tubes, all I can say is that I am surprised. We normally synergize components with opposite qualities… like a speaker with an aggressive top end with a mellow sounding CD player/amp. The HD650 is certainly a wonderful headphone, Mr. Olblueyez, but it is known to have lots of warmth, something the K701 certainly doesn’t possess to the same measure. So why would you drive the HD650 with a tube, that only adds more warmth? Why not just give it a brute of a SS amp and let it thrill? Olblueyez, I certainly respect your opinion, could you kindly explain this HD650-tube synergy a bit more?

The 650 is high Impedance and for the most part an OTL tube amp is best for driving a headphone with a high impedance like 250 Ohm or 300 Ohm or even 600 Ohm. There are exceptions to this but this is basically how it works.

The second thing is the sound of a tube amp. Just because you have a tube amp does not mean that the amp will only sound warm. eg: my Raptor can sound just like a solid state amp or it can sound as warm as you want. If I put an RCA cleartop in the gain socket it is bright and lacks bass weight like a lot of the solid state amps do. If I use a Mullard shortplate in that same socket then it has too much bass and the highs are so rolled off that most of your high end details are gone. For the 650 I use one of two tubes, a Siemens 5418A or a Tungsram ECC82. They are both very detailed and have a nice big sound stage, the only difference is the Tungsram adds a bit of bass impact. using these tubes with a bright headphone like a Grado 225 would probably sound too bright. The point is, with a tube amp you can tailor the sound of your amp to match the rest of your system, not small changes either, big changes in the sonic character of the amp, and subtle ones too if you like. This way you don't need to constantly hunt for new amps and headphones until you find a combination that works. Also the odds of finding the exact sound you want are much greater with this approach as compared to buying a solid state and swapping out headphones until you find the right combination.

As for the Warm sound of the 650, yes it is a warm headphone but there are many mis-conceptions about the 650. A stock 650 plugged into a solid state amp will sound boomy in the bass dept and veiled in the mids. This is in part due to the stock cable that comes with the 650. Adding a nice copper cable will make the 650's more dynamic and reduce the bass weight and add some impact, it will also lift the veil making vocals sound so natural it is amazing. The vocals become more forward and more clear. You can even go a step further and use a silver replacement cable and make the entire sound of the 650s brighter and it will reduce the bass in general, weight and impact. The short version is the 650 is warm but not as warm as people think when used with the right cable and amp.

That is whats great about a rig like mine. You can make adjustments to the sound signature until you find exactly what you want. With the 701 the number of suitable tube amps is greatly reduced and the 701 cable is hard wired making a replacement cable a pain in the ass unless you know how to do it yourself. Just a lot less options with that headphone. One thing is if you do get a new cable then I would absolutely go with solid core copper with dual entry and I would look for an amp like the Mapletree MAD EAR or another tube type amp suitable for the 701's.

It took me about 6 months to find the tube combination I liked and experimenting with the tubes was so much fun. I now have sold off most of the tubes I didn't like and have duplicates of the tubes I do.

 

[Happy Camper]

Yeah, a tube amp and a ss amp can sound indistinguishable or as different as you care to set them up.Tubes with lots of current sure gives you flexibility.

 

[silverskull]

never tried a tube b4,perhaps i'll run over the the audio visual shop nearby to try some tube amps =)

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with him, though my post refers to all phones, not merely this one. There's a grand delusion on this forum that if you simply spend enough money on ancillary equipment (amps, sources, cables...), you'll eventually learn to appreciate phones you find flawed. Of course, it's often couched in nebulous terms like "finding the RIGHT amp" or "achieving synchrony", etc, but the premise is the same, and, in my opinion, ultimately false. If you like a truly enjoy pair of headphones, you can enjoy them anywhere, any time, with any equipment. If you truly dislike a pair, no amount of equipment will change this, although the grand delusion insists otherwise.

Lucky, I *partially* agree with both of you, but I think we may be skipping around the root issue here, and that is that some of us are more than willing to climb Everest for the sake of it, while many of us would be better off never leaving our lounge room. If I end up trying to climb Everest because I bought a really good sleeping bag that was rated for 'arctic conditions', do I
then proceed to bag everyone who *has* climbed Everest because I allowed myself to be drawn into the madness that is mountain climbing ?

If I had any brains at all, I would sell the K601 tomorrow and only buy phones that perform without additional amplification - sacrilege to many head-Fiers, but undoubtedly a lot simpler than the endless quest for the perfect headphone amp for each and every set of phones you own. The problem is that you keep looking at the sleeping bag and imagining yourself at Base Camp ...

End of the day, do I want to enjoy music or become a gear queer ?

 

[intoart]

Just to be clear, my strong preference for AD900s above K701s has nothing to do with the relative ease of driving them and everything to do with the sound.
I have a great source and a great amp that can drive anything, and have not auditioned any phones (including the K701s) with less than that.

The key point (as I mentioned before) is that if you like a given pair of phones a better amp and/or burn-in can enhance that even more, but if you don't like them then those things will not make any difference.

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lucky, I *partially* agree with both of you, but I think we may be skipping around the root issue here, and that is that some of us are more than willing to climb Everest for the sake of it, while many of us would be better off never leaving our lounge room. If I end up trying to climb Everest because I bought a really good sleeping bag that was rated for 'arctic conditions', do I then proceed to bag everyone who *has* climbed Everest because I allowed myself to be drawn into the madness that is mountain climbing ? If I had any brains at all, I would sell the K601 tomorrow and only buy phones that perform without additional amplification - sacrilege to many head-Fiers, but undoubtedly a lot simpler than the endless quest for the perfect headphone amp for each and every set of phones you own. The problem is that you keep looking at the sleeping bag and imagining yourself at Base Camp ... End of the day, do I want to enjoy music or become a gear queer ?

But an amp with a good source is a must, a source like a sound card/iPod hides so much of the music! And if you have a good source/amp, it's better to have a good headphone, isn't it?

 

[Happy Camper]

Gear queer hey. There are a lot of gear queers here.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are a lot of gear queers here.

Count me in!

.

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 650 is high Impedance and for the most part an OTL tube amp is best for driving a headphone with a high impedance like 250 Ohm or 300 Ohm or even 600 Ohm. There are exceptions to this but this is basically how it works. The second thing is the sound of a tube amp. Just because you have a tube amp does not mean that the amp will only sound warm. eg: my Raptor can sound just like a solid state amp or it can sound as warm as you want. If I put an RCA cleartop in the gain socket it is bright and lacks bass weight like a lot of the solid state amps do. If I use a Mullard shortplate in that same socket then it has too much bass and the highs are so rolled off that most of your high end details are gone. For the 650 I use one of two tubes, a Siemens 5418A or a Tungsram ECC82. They are both very detailed and have a nice big sound stage, the only difference is the Tungsram adds a bit of bass impact. using these tubes with a bright headphone like a Grado 225 would probably sound too bright. The point is, with a tube amp you can tailor the sound of your amp to match the rest of your system, not small changes either, big changes in the sonic character of the amp, and subtle ones too if you like. This way you don't need to constantly hunt for new amps and headphones until you find a combination that works. Also the odds of finding the exact sound you want are much greater with this approach as compared to buying a solid state and swapping out headphones until you find the right combination. As for the Warm sound of the 650, yes it is a warm headphone but there are many mis-conceptions about the 650. A stock 650 plugged into a solid state amp will sound boomy in the bass dept and veiled in the mids. This is in part due to the stock cable that comes with the 650. Adding a nice copper cable will make the 650's more dynamic and reduce the bass weight and add some impact, it will also lift the veil making vocals sound so natural it is amazing. The vocals become more forward and more clear. You can even go a step further and use a silver replacement cable and make the entire sound of the 650s brighter and it will reduce the bass in general, weight and impact. The short version is the 650 is warm but not as warm as people think when used with the right cable and amp. That is whats great about a rig like mine. You can make adjustments to the sound signature until you find exactly what you want. With the 701 the number of suitable tube amps is greatly reduced and the 701 cable is hard wired making a replacement cable a pain in the ass unless you know how to do it yourself. Just a lot less options with that headphone. One thing is if you do get a new cable then I would absolutely go with solid core copper with dual entry and I would look for an amp like the Mapletree MAD EAR or another tube type amp suitable for the 701's. It took me about 6 months to find the tube combination I liked and experimenting with the tubes was so much fun. I now have sold off most of the tubes I didn't like and have duplicates of the tubes I do.

Excellent write-up, nice read, thanks!

 

[coredump]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for the Warm sound of the 650, yes it is a warm headphone but there are many mis-conceptions about the 650. A stock 650 plugged into a solid state amp will sound boomy in the bass dept and veiled in the mids. This is in part due to the stock cable that comes with the 650. Adding a nice copper cable will make the 650's more dynamic and reduce the bass weight and add some impact, it will also lift the veil making vocals sound so natural it is amazing. The vocals become more forward and more clear. You can even go a step further and use a silver replacement cable and make the entire sound of the 650s brighter and it will reduce the bass in general, weight and impact. The short version is the 650 is warm but not as warm as people think when used with the right cable and amp.

How is this a misconception when every HD650 comes with a stock cable and probably half of all amps are solid state. If it comes out of the factory sounding boomy and veiled then that's the way it's supposed to sound. A recable may make a huge improvment but then I wouldn't call that the stock HD650 sound.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by coredump /img/forum/go_quote.gif How is this a misconception when every HD650 comes with a stock cable and probably half of all amps are solid state. If it comes out of the factory sounding boomy and veiled then that's the way it's supposed to sound. A recable may make a huge improvment but then I wouldn't call that the stock HD650 sound.

The point is people dismiss the 650 for being boomy and veiled and the headphone is not entirely to blame. As for the way its supposed to sound? It is supposed to sound the way you want them to sound, that is one of the primary functions of this website, for people to swap information about tuning a system for better performance. Besides, your statement about "Thats how they are supposed to sound" is stupid considering how many different sources and amps and tube combinations and cables that can be added. If it were supposed to sound that way then why the hell would Senn but a connectorized cable on them? You don't think Senn is going to put the best cable available on the headphone do you? And drive up the selling price making it less competitive with other brands?

 

[12Bass]

Hmmm...... I have serious doubts that the basic sound of a headphone will change with different amps/cables. My experience with the HD 650 (with Cardas cable, Creek amp) was that it was focused on the low midrange/upper bass and sounded like it put a warm blanket over everything, with relatively little clarity or detail..... sort of a warm, cozy sound to curl up with, but not anything close to accurate or neutral, IMO.