[MayaTlab]

He just wonders, why the use of metal and why 390 gr??

The aluminium cups are a non-problem as far as weight is concerned. If you look at iFixit's X-rays it's rather the internal parts that are the densest :

It's difficult to blame the drivers' magnets - at some point you've got to do what you've got to do to get the performances you want to get, or the headband's flexible frame, but the joint mechanism and the headband extension mechanism look fairly dense (the former of which is made unnecessarily complicated by some decisions taken during the development phase that strike me as irrational). There also seems to be a sort of counterweight in the left earcup. There is also quite a bit of air in the earcups so perhaps the total amount of material is higher than it necessarily needed to be ?

 

[angelom]

most probably you are right, but I mainly posted his review for his remarks on the comfort aspect. He says what i think is true, that they are just too heavy to feel comfortable and that their clamping force is tremendous. They are mainly for home use with one hour breaks and he says they are not as portable as others. He also agrees with you that the fabric used on the ear cups is itchy on his face. He even says that the headband and the fabric used is feeling really comfortable on the head, helping a lot with all this weight distribution, but still, whatever headband, all this weight cannot of course go unnoticed and eventually the pressure is unbearable! Generally he liked the sound a lot. He just wonders, why the use of metal and why 390 gr?? I find him a reasonable guy generally speaking...

Yes, I'm agree with this aspects that he (and you) mentioning about comfort and (bad) material of the earpads. But is a surprise for me that he speaking a lot about audiophile, and his experience in this and recording music, and the he's saying the h9i is his "benchmark" for good sound in bt headphones.

 

[MayaTlab]

Another video showing the removable headband :

Should be a very easy repair for Apple technicians... but at what cost out of warranty ?

 

[ricksastro]

most probably you are right, but I mainly posted his review for his remarks on the comfort aspect. He says what i think is true, that they are just too heavy to feel comfortable and that their clamping force is tremendous. They are mainly for home use with one hour breaks and he says they are not as portable as others. He also agrees with you that the fabric used on the ear cups is itchy on his face. He even says that the headband and the fabric used is feeling really comfortable on the head, helping a lot with all this weight distribution, but still, whatever headband, all this weight cannot of course go unnoticed and eventually the pressure is unbearable! Generally he liked the sound a lot. He just wonders, why the use of metal and why 390 gr?? I find him a reasonable guy generally speaking...

I have a huge head and have the APMs fully extended. I found the clamping force high to start with, but I placed them around chair cushions with the cups turned 90 degrees for a few nights and they are now just about right for me.

 

[RighteousNuts]

I actually bought my first apple product - the air pod max just because it's been described as the best of the worst (Best ANC headphone, which ultimately sound average in general). I figure for Bluetooth purposes having both the drop x panda and Apple Air Pods Max kinda covers all the basis in terms of availability for sound for me when I cant use something like an Abyss Diana or Verite. I'm curious to see how it sounds, I felt the bass was a bit anemic(or something, the hump in the bass really melds everything together) in the drop x panda's and the highs a little bright. Sony MX3's kinda have that bass hump that really melds the lower frequencies together which I dont like (I prefer a linear deep bass) (The heddphone is a good example of how this is done very well). Seems based on the graphs that these will perform pretty good for the sound signature I like.

 

[tinyman392]

most probably you are right, but I mainly posted his review for his remarks on the comfort aspect. He says what i think is true, that they are just too heavy to feel comfortable and that their clamping force is tremendous. They are mainly for home use with one hour breaks and he says they are not as portable as others. He also agrees with you that the fabric used on the ear cups is itchy on his face. He even says that the headband and the fabric used is feeling really comfortable on the head, helping a lot with all this weight distribution, but still, whatever headband, all this weight cannot of course go unnoticed and eventually the pressure is unbearable! Generally he liked the sound a lot. He just wonders, why the use of metal and why 390 gr?? I find him a reasonable guy generally speaking...

Then there’s the clamping force, which is very strong; AirPods Max squeeze your head like a musical bear hug. This is a common problem with heavy headphones, so I wasn’t surprised to see it here...

He mistakes and incorrectly conflates clamping force with heavy headphones. Clamping force is a function of the spring compression rate of the headband itself, the force required to pull the housings away from each other on the horizontal axis. It has little (realistically nothing) to do with the weight as it's a function of the stiffness and shaping of the headband itself. A lot of people end up stretching out the headband if they find the clamping force is too high to try to deal with it. It will almost always improve the issue, but not not be enough to fix it for the user. Note how weight isn't removed to improve the clamping force. Clamping force is complained about a lot about the AirPods Max. I don't want to downsize this issue as it exists; very widely I might add. But it's not related much to weight. Weight plays a role in the headband when it comes to comfort, and even then it's partial since that becomes a function of pressure (weight vs surface area).

Many, many people online complained about the weight of the headphone before they even had a chance to put them on and mistakenly believed that weight makes a headphone uncomfortable when it was only half of the equation and only on the vertical axis. I get that he's trying to ride off this bandwagon of 2-5 more oz = uncomfortable, but he's equated it to the wrong metric of comfort. Weight influences the pressure of the headband on the top of the head (vertical axis) while the clamping force is almost entirely on the horizontal axis.

With the APP the sound quality was the popular thing to poke at when it came to finding a flaw in the headphones as if you don't find issue with an Apple product... Well you know what happens. A lot of reviewers poked at the sound quality because Apple SQ = bad was the trending opinion of many. This kind of got turned around as a bunch of audiophiles figured out it doesn't sound bad... With the APM this turns to the case (which is a huge comprise) and its weight. In reality, the weight is rarely complained about with most users (unless you're trying to exercise or doing something incredibly active) but rather the clamping force, which for all intents and purposes is independent of the headphone's weight. In reality the major flaws were the case, clamping force (independent of weight), and the mesh on the headband feeling delicate. Audio-wise, it has its flaws too (bass texturing, boominess, detail, clarity, vocal energy, sibilance, treble smearing, etc.).

There are other things that are kind of off in the review too...

Yes, much of that magical soundstage is in fact manufactured by the headphones’ Digital Signal Processing (DSP). The same technology that enables Spatial Audio to work also allows Apple to artificially enhance the sense of space and re-balance the sound to remain steady and clean even at very high and very low volumes. Those dual H1 chips are working hard.

In the words of Luke Skywalker, "amazing, every word of what you just said was false." Spacial audio doesn't run with music. The input itself is kind of wrong for that to run as for a true 3D effect to take place you need a Dolby 5, 6, 7.1 input (5 to 8 way audio input)... Most music is a 2-way stereo input. If Spacial audio was running as DSP for the music he's listening to it would sound like the music was emanating from his iPhone (which would be extremely awkward).

From what's known, the H1 chips are heavily involved in Spacial Audio (not functioning during music playback), Adaptive EQ, and transparency/ANC. It may also serve a purpose as the main on-board DAC as well (though processing from this perspective would in in the form of any other DAC that exists). Most of this can be shut off by turning off ANC and transparency while listening to music. It's currently debated (as you've seen as of recent) whether Adaptive EQ is being used when these features are turned off. I kind of want to say it's not on to this as the acoustic pressure balance drastically changes when you turn off ANC/transparency and that's at least part of the trick that Adaptive EQ employs. I can definitely feel this feature working in the APP and APM too, but shut off if you turn off ANC/transparency.

 

[tinyman392]

I have a huge head and have the APMs fully extended. I found the clamping force high to start with, but I placed them around chair cushions with the cups turned 90 degrees for a few nights and they are now just about right for me.

I normally use books to stretch out headbands, but rarely need to do that due to my small head. The nice thing about the APM is that the pads are easily removed so you won't need to compress the pads in order to go this route Turning the housings on their sides is a very good idea though, especially if it's stable in this orientation

I actually bought my first apple product - the air pod max just because it's been described as the best of the worst (Best ANC headphone, which ultimately sound average in general). I figure for Bluetooth purposes having both the drop x panda and Apple Air Pods Max kinda covers all the basis in terms of availability for sound for me when I cant use something like an Abyss Diana or Verite. I'm curious to see how it sounds, I felt the bass was a bit anemic(or something, the hump in the bass really melds everything together) in the drop x panda's and the highs a little bright. Sony MX3's kinda have that bass hump that really melds the lower frequencies together which I dont like (I prefer a linear deep bass) (The heddphone is a good example of how this is done very well). Seems based on the graphs that these will perform pretty good for the sound signature I like.

Oof... I found the AirPods Max to have less bass weight than the Drop Panda. The Drop Panda has a pretty thick bass body to it which can make it sound almost dark. The AirPods Max kind of rids of this.

Edit: the treble is also softer, but more detailed, on the Drop Panda too...

 

[RighteousNuts]

I normally use books to stretch out headbands, but rarely need to do that due to my small head. The nice thing about the APM is that the pads are easily removed so you won't need to compress the pads in order to go this route Turning the housings on their sides is a very good idea though, especially if it's stable in this orientation



Oof... I found the AirPods Max to have less bass weight than the Drop Panda. The Drop Panda has a pretty thick bass body to it which can make it sound almost dark. The AirPods Max kind of rids of this.

See, the drop x panda the bass just feels bloated, not detailed and deep. Does that make sense? the AAPM kinda give me that subbass feel

 

[tinyman392]

See, the drop x panda the bass just feels bloated, not detailed and deep. Does that make sense? the AAPM kinda give me that subbass feel

APM does feel a lot less bloated in comparison. When you said anemic I thought you meant thin (which is opposite of what I felt like it sounded like). The Drop does actually have decent depth to it and provide better texturing.

I did add an edit in my previous post saying that the Drop Panda also has softer treble that is more detailed than the AirPods.

 

[tinyman392]

Another video showing the removable headband :

Should be a very easy repair for Apple technicians... but at what cost out of warranty ?

Oof, no answer for this one, but I feel like it might be cheaper depending on the damage. I know battery was quoted at 89 dollars or something in that range. I wouldn't expect a headband to cost much more than that. A full on replacement would probably run you 400 if both drivers failed. It would be nice if Apple sold some of these parts to the public as it seems the headband is very serviceable. In general it seems like Apple kept serviceability in mind when designing the AirPods Max, which is an odd thing for Apple to do

 

[Duncan]

Thank you for the comparison. I was very interested in Ananda BT vs AirPod Max. If you only listen indoors in a quiet room which would you choose regardless of price - Ananda BT or AirPod Max?

Sorry for the delay, me personally - for a very quiet room, in daylight, the Ananda, but the APM is surprisingly close and has better functionality - for less money

 

[RighteousNuts]

APM does feel a lot less bloated in comparison. When you said anemic I thought you meant thin (which is opposite of what I felt like it sounded like). The Drop does actually have decent depth to it and provide better texturing.

I did add an edit in my previous post saying that the Drop Panda also has softer treble that is more detailed than the AirPods.

Yeah, my description was inaccurate, sorry about that. Drop X Panda just has bass I dont enjoy. I wanna feel the sub in my music.

 

[tinyman392]

Yeah, my description was inaccurate, sorry about that. Drop X Panda just has bass I dont enjoy. I wanna feel the sub in my music.

Well the APM is definitely not bloated and has quite a bit of sub bass. You'll feel impacts and punches very well. The more delicate and subtle texturing/detailing you get in the bass kind of gets lost though. It's also not very fast, but neither was the Panda IMO.

V-Moda also recently announced their M-200 ANC which is supposed to be voiced between the M-100 Master and the M-200 which might also make it a contender as well for this sort of sound signature. Although the M-100 was known for being a basshead's headphone, the M-100 Master strayed far from that sort of sound signature (if you look at the measurements) being much better balanced and the M-200 straying even further being almost dead-on neutral. All this is kind of speculative though as it hasn't been released yet and will use a different driver to the M-200.

 

[MayaTlab]

From what's known, the H1 chips are heavily involved in Spacial Audio (not functioning during music playback), Adaptive EQ, and transparency/ANC. It may also serve a purpose as the main on-board DAC as well (though processing from this perspective would in in the form of any other DAC that exists). Most of this can be shut off by turning off ANC and transparency while listening to music. It's currently debated (as you've seen as of recent) whether Adaptive EQ is being used when these features are turned off. I kind of want to say it's not on to this as the acoustic pressure balance drastically changes when you turn off ANC/transparency and that's at least part of the trick that Adaptive EQ employs. I can definitely feel this feature working in the APP and APM too, but shut off if you turn off ANC/transparency.

I am not sure I understand what I bolded for emphasis.

What I know though is that Apple has already patented an implementation of Adaptive EQ that works without involving ANC :

https://patents.justia.com/patent/9515629#history

Figure 4 in question :

The details of that patent are way above my station. But perhaps when ANC and transparency mode are off, the internal mic (would that be the "error microphone" ?) continues to be working to enable Adaptive EQ.

 

[tinyman392]

I am not sure I understand what I bolded for emphasis.

What I know though is that Apple has already patented an implementation of Adaptive EQ that works without involving ANC :

https://patents.justia.com/patent/9515629#history

Figure 4 in question :

The details of that patent are way above my station. But perhaps when ANC and transparency mode are off, the internal mic (would that be the "error microphone" ?) continues to be working to enable Adaptive EQ.

ANC isn't required, but keeping a constant acoustic pressure in the sound chamber (paraphrasing) is part of the trick of Adaptive EQ (for the HomePod anyways). I feel the pressure change when I turn off the ANC/transparency feature which means that constant acoustic pressure is no longer constant. End result is that if the Adaptive EQ isn't completely turned off it's at least partially turned off. I'd wager it's the former.