[Author]

Same here. Love my APM. I'm not doubting that it's happening, I'm just wondering why it's happening for some and not others. What's the difference? Is it a sweat issue? Is it the way they fit? Is it weather/humidity? I'm just curious. Good thing I have Apple Care just in case

Just speculating, but I think it’s more related to weather/humidity. Especially since for some who have experienced this, it has not happened more than once or it has been a sporadic issue. (Based on what I’ve read here in the forum.)

From my layperson’s perspective, metabolism or a propensity to perspire a lot would make for a more repeatable experience that would be described here more commonly.

But who really knows? I’m not scouring Google for cases.

EDIT: My ears never sweat wearing the APM. They sweated constantly under the XM3. It was almost immediate in many cases and it seemed never ending.

 

[ricksastro]

This is insane. I've used my APM for hours. I've never had any type of condensation. Are peoples' ears also sweating when they see this condensation? I pulled my ear pads off just a couple of days ago after using for 4 hrs, no moisture anywhere. My ears weren't sweating either. I know that any headphone can deal with condensation when ears are sweating. But just building up for no reason whatsoever is crazy to me.

I think it has more to do with ambient humidity and temperature. It would be interesting to know if those that have seen the issue are in more humid warmer climates than in colder climates where indoor humidity in the air is lower.

For condensation to happen, the dewpoint inside the ear chamber has to be above the ambient temperature outside the chamber...period. When you put the headphones on, the temperature goes up in the chamber (and thus can hold more moisture) and any body moisture is added can take the dewpoint inside the earpiece above ambient temperature. The aluminum body helps cool down the insides below the inside dewpoint faster than plastic. If the ambient air humidity is high, the dewpoint inside the chamber starts out higher and needs less boost to condense.

The ability to easily remove the pads makes it super easy to see this happening and the prox sensors makes it even easier to detect. So there's likely some cases where other headphones may have been doing the same thing unnoticed. But the APM are super dense with the electronics and batteries and have a large heat mass and a metal case, so there are likely a little more susceptible and just a LOT easier to notice/detect (enhanced with the added attention)

 

[Maukey]

My condensation didn't happen when my ears were sweating (they rarely do that anyways). I've no idea what causes it but I've also been unable to repeat the issue either.

Wow, that's interesting. The thing that sucks about this is that it doesn't appear to be consistent so Apple may not own up to any issue. I would advise everyone who love the APM and want to keep them, to get Apple Care or some other warranty to be on the safe side. I know with Apple Care you have 60 days from the date of purchase to add it. I added mine just a couple of days ago when I started hearing about this issue.

 

[Maukey]

I think it has more to do with ambient humidity and temperature. It would be interesting to know if those that have seen the issue are in more humid warmer climates than in colder climates where indoor humidity in the air is lower.

For condensation to happen, the dewpoint inside the ear chamber has to be above the ambient temperature outside the chamber...period. When you put the headphones on, the temperature goes up in the chamber (and thus can hold more moisture) and any body moisture is added can take the dewpoint inside the earpiece above ambient temperature. The aluminum body helps cool down the insides below the inside dewpoint faster than plastic. If the ambient air humidity is high, the dewpoint inside the chamber starts out higher and needs less boost to condense.

The ability to easily remove the pads makes it super easy to see this happening and the prox sensors makes it even easier to detect. So there's likely some cases where other headphones may have been doing the same thing unnoticed. But the APM are super dense with the electronics and batteries and have a large heat mass and a metal case, so there are likely a little more susceptible and just a LOT easier to notice/detect (enhanced with the added attention)

This makes perfect sense to me. My ears definitely would sweat in warmer temperatures when wearing the Sony 1000XM3 and M4. I would take the headphones off and the mesh cover over the drivers would be moist. Like you said, because of how headphones like the 1000XM4 are designed, many don't think about moisture because it goes into the mesh. The APM design with the removable ear pads makes the moisture much more noticeable. My ears are generally much cooler wearing the APM than they were with the 1000XM4. I think I only felt my ears getting hot once. There was no moisture though. I don't know, time will tell I guess.

 

[tinyman392]

I think it has more to do with ambient humidity and temperature. It would be interesting to know if those that have seen the issue are in more humid warmer climates than in colder climates where indoor humidity in the air is lower.

For condensation to happen, the dewpoint inside the ear chamber has to be above the ambient temperature outside the chamber...period. When you put the headphones on, the temperature goes up in the chamber (and thus can hold more moisture) and any body moisture is added can take the dewpoint inside the earpiece above ambient temperature. The aluminum body helps cool down the insides below the inside dewpoint faster than plastic. If the ambient air humidity is high, the dewpoint inside the chamber starts out higher and needs less boost to condense.

The ability to easily remove the pads makes it super easy to see this happening and the prox sensors makes it even easier to detect. So there's likely some cases where other headphones may have been doing the same thing unnoticed. But the APM are super dense with the electronics and batteries and have a large heat mass and a metal case, so there are likely a little more susceptible and just a LOT easier to notice/detect (enhanced with the added attention)

It actually happened indoors for me sitting at my desk. December is dry here since humidity drops to almost nothing indoors but the relative humidity would be higher outdoors since the temperature is lower, but stuff is just dry in general. That said, the issue for me happened within 24 hours of them sitting outdoors and in very cold (relatively) temps in comparison to what happened when they came indoors. I almost want to put the headphones into my cold car and let them sit there for a few hours to see if that would cause the condensation to happen hours after bringing it back indoors. But I also don't because creating water in an electronic device isn't always the smartest idea

Wow, that's interesting. The thing that sucks about this is that it doesn't appear to be consistent so Apple may not own up to any issue. I would advise everyone who love the APM and want to keep them, to get Apple Care or some other warranty to be on the safe side. I know with Apple Care you have 60 days from the date of purchase to add it. I added mine just a couple of days ago when I started hearing about this issue.

Until Apple can figure out the cause of the issue, then they can't own up to it. And sometimes it takes a while for them to figure out what causes said issue. The APP ANC issues for example, it took them nearly a year to figure out the issue.

 

[ricksastro]

It actually happened indoors for me sitting at my desk. December is dry here since humidity drops to almost nothing indoors but the relative humidity would be higher outdoors since the temperature is lower, but stuff is just dry in general. That said, the issue for me happened within 24 hours of them sitting outdoors and in very cold (relatively) temps in comparison to what happened when they came indoors. I almost want to put the headphones into my cold car and let them sit there for a few hours to see if that would cause the condensation to happen hours after bringing it back indoors. But I also don't because creating water in an electronic device isn't always the smartest idea

Until Apple can figure out the cause of the issue, then they can't own up to it. And sometimes it takes a while for them to figure out what causes said issue. The APP ANC issues for example, it took them nearly a year to figure out the issue.

When I got mine delivered I actually put them on right away (even though they were about freezing from being in the delivery truck) for about an hour to see if it would happen. No moisture at all. House runs about 40% humidity.

Thankfully, the moisture is (at least until dirt accumulates) pure water so not as corrosive as sweat. Not a good thing, but we'll see how things pan out.

 

[tinyman392]

When I got mine delivered I actually put them on right away (even though they were about freezing from being in the delivery truck) for about an hour to see if it would happen. No moisture at all. House runs about 40% humidity.

Thankfully, the moisture is (at least until dirt accumulates) pure water so not as corrosive as sweat. Not a good thing, but we'll see how things pan out.

It's odd since the condensation didn't appear immediately after I got them. I had to wait until the morning after for the issue to happen. Granted I didn't check them myself until I had an audible issue caused by the condensation. They may or may not have been doing that before hand.

Edit: if it is condensation from delivery, that would likely mean that it will eventually stop after everything is dried out completely (which is easier to do without the pads on the housings).

 

[scrane]

Obviously the phones can't manufacture water from dry air. So either a high level of moisture was trapped in the phones from the environment on placing them and/or the ears are perspiring. Or, listening to music after recently showering? The only thing I can think of as far as why the AirPod max especially?: a tight seal and the thermal conductive properties of aluminum. Possible fix?... changing the earpads to a composition that can breathe? ... internal thermal insulation? ...or add an aftermarket silicone skin to he exterior as a thermal break?

 

[tinyman392]

Obviously the phones can't manufacture water from dry air. So either a high level of moisture was trapped in the phones from the environment on placing them and/or the ears are perspiring. Or, listening to music after recently showering? The only thing I can think of as far as why the AirPod max especially?: a tight seal and the thermal conductive properties of aluminum. Possible fix?... changing the earpads to a composition that can breathe? ... internal thermal insulation? ...or add an aftermarket silicone skin to he exterior as a thermal break?

These ear pads actually breath plenty well to be honest, especially compared to a similar pleather/leather pad.

 

[AlwaysForward]

My condensation didn't happen when my ears were sweating (they rarely do that anyways). I've no idea what causes it but I've also been unable to repeat the issue either.

Did you notice any problems with the performance? There’s only 1 report of an actual performance problem from this that I can find.

I spoke with a mechanical reliability prodigy on my team who used to work for apple about this yesterday.

We can definitely assume their consumer testing models included all of the environmental ranges that humans would use these in.

He mentioned the material, such as aluminum, would normally do that. They are probably shielded from this “natural environmental condensation”

 

[tinyman392]

Did you notice any problems with the performance? There’s only 1 report of an actual performance problem from this that I can find.

I spoke with a mechanical reliability prodigy on my team who used to work for apple about this yesterday.

We can definitely assume their consumer testing models included all of the environmental ranges that humans would use these in.

He mentioned the material, such as aluminum, would normally do that. They are probably shielded from this “natural environmental condensation”

Without the performance issue, I probably never would have realized it was happening. But when the droplets of water touches the driver, it will produce an audible wind noise, but only in the ear that has the water on the driver. Even after wiping down the condensation on the plastic between the driver and pads, the driver would seem to build up with water even after blowing it off. But blowing it off would give me another 30-60 minutes of listening time without the issue (condensation didn't reappear, but water seemed to keep building up on the driver itself). Eventually I just gave in after my meeting and put them down pad off for an hour or two. Issue hasn't appeared since.

Edit: this wind noise goes away if you turn off ANC and transparency modes. I think the sound was due to the Adaptive EQ trying to EQ for the water resting on the driver.

 

[Bytor123]

Anyone tried expelling the moisture with the digital crown, like with the watch...

 

[tinyman392]

Anyone tried expelling the moisture with the digital crown, like with the watch...

What do you mean by this? The Watch does have a water flush function that will play the speaker at a very high frequency to expel the water out of that crevice. In theory it would fix the issue I had with water resting on the driver

 

[rael67]

Wow, that's interesting. The thing that sucks about this is that it doesn't appear to be consistent so Apple may not own up to any issue. I would advise everyone who love the APM and want to keep them, to get Apple Care or some other warranty to be on the safe side. I know with Apple Care you have 60 days from the date of purchase to add it. I added mine just a couple of days ago when I started hearing about this issue.

I love the APM and I will keep them but I would never buy Apple Care for that issue. I told Apples technical support of the condensation problem and they said that there will be no damage through this. It is documented, so if there will be damage because of condensation Apple has to repair or change the APM.

 

[Bytor123]

What do you mean by this? The Watch does have a water flush function that will play the speaker at a very high frequency to expel the water out of that crevice. In theory it would fix the issue I had with water resting on the driver

...it was a joke...I'll get my coat...