AirPods Max
Dec 25, 2020 at 8:59 PM Post #1,606 of 5,654
Time to ask yourself if you are even really for wired or wireless.

Easy: audiophiles have better hearing that doesn't kick in until you are at this level. When I watched his video, I was rooting for him to say I've reached my ability to discriminate - I'll leave the final judgement of APM to H95 to others. I doubt this reviewer will hear subtleties of better headphones - which only exist for a few. Imagination, or ears? I think most of us lurkers will never know. Good enough is good enough for most of us.
Keep on dreaming... audiophiles ears could be worst than normal people since you keep using it on more than likely louder than normal volumes. If you go to an ENT and most likely audiophile have a long queues.
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 9:17 PM Post #1,608 of 5,654
Zeos is like a real world version of Mr. Plinkett from the Red Letter Media movie reviews.

Hah! I know who that is!
(Reference)

EDIT: in case that reference was lost, there’s a red letter media episode covering Star Wars where he said “I know what that is,” making fun of nostalgia being overused in the new movies. Anyway!
 
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Dec 25, 2020 at 9:35 PM Post #1,609 of 5,654
Keep on dreaming... audiophiles ears could be worst than normal people since you keep using it on more than likely louder than normal volumes. If you go to an ENT and most likely audiophile have a long queues.

One of the nice things about the AirPods Max is that Apple's health app is able to give you a direct readout of how loudly you're listening to them. I'm listening to these around 70-80 dB peak.
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 9:35 PM Post #1,610 of 5,654
Yes I scrutinised this YouTube content creator after checking out the video. Some content creators are heavily apple biased with the majority of video purely on apple products.

You have to be wary about content creators that really only promote one brand.

His comments on the APM vs Sony were like, "the APMS do nothing wrong at all, the Sonys do this, this, this, this.. wrong"

Like I said after hearing the differences on his video, I found the differences small. But it wasn't that APM did everything right and xm4 did everything wrong - Some parts of songs I enjoyed more on APM and other parts of songs I enjoyed more on xm4.

In regards to the APM vs h95 comparison. Both @angelom and I found that he strategically included the h95 in his video just for the purpose of saying that APM = h95 in sound, one is 550, the other is 800... so choose the 550 one :)



What's with the recessed mid-range on wireless headphones seriously, is this purely down to tuning or the drivers? Is this what manufactures think we want? you can tell on this video that APM is definitely better the Sony and Bose, but that bar really isn't high that in my opinion, the APM still sounded recessed, I really don't buy into this Harmon target curve BS, it just kills the mids. Also how can the reviewer say that he could hardly hear the difference between the APM's and H95's, even over my headphones they sound dramatically different so surely in person the differences are even more apparent?
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 10:00 PM Post #1,611 of 5,654
Used the mimi app with my APP and the audiogram profile seems much better than the balanced one!
 
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Dec 25, 2020 at 10:39 PM Post #1,612 of 5,654
Just ordered a pair of green AirPods Max.
for now I am having my phone number engraved on them but since I have to wait until March 3 that may change.
You kind folks pushed me over the cliff.

EDIT. I just couldn’t spend $600 on a set of cans. Had the LCD II and couple of others my hearing shot so I stepped back to the Bose 700s and they are good and I am pleased. I didn’t need another monument to my stupidity
 
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Dec 25, 2020 at 10:41 PM Post #1,613 of 5,654
On a more interesting note, evidence suggests that the headband might be a lot easier to remove than what we could have thought :
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-max-wrecking-vid-shows-easy-removal-headband.2277224/
The cables running through the headband are actually terminated at both ends in a sort of plug similar to lighting that snaps into the pivot mechanism (unlike pretty much every other headphones with wires running through the headband which run through the hinges and then are frequently soldiered at both ends in the earcups). It appears that to remove it you simply have to press against a flat piece in the pivot mechanism and I’m wondering if that can be done through the tiny hole at the top of the plastic piece that covers the drivers with a tool similar to SIM card tray removal tools. If that is confirmed it could make for a very easy replacement of the headband with no need to enter the earcups and I’m wondering what Apple would charge for that.
 
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Dec 25, 2020 at 10:46 PM Post #1,614 of 5,654
There is nothing wrong with that, but take this and add it too all the apple/apm promoting posts this user has produced, there is clearly some bias and promotion going on.

Plus there is an element of hypocrisy in that he is happy to write off panda and k361 specifically purchase to compare and review, after only a bunch of tracks. Yet he didn't apply this "take your time" approach, nor did he suggest the "take your time" approach for the k371 and panda. This approach was only suggested to be applied for the APM in his conclusion. Nor did he "burn in" his k361 and panda to have them on an even playing field for the review. He just ordered them, received them, and quickly made the review and case was closed.


What is wrong with that? I've seen the same thing said many times here about getting used to one headphone and then other headphones take an adjustment period to wrap your head around the different sound. Absolutely true in my opinion. Shouldn't be controversial, except perhaps for the pushy framing.
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 10:58 PM Post #1,615 of 5,654
There is nothing wrong with that, but take this and add it too all the apple/apm promoting posts this user has produced, there is clearly some bias and promotion going on.

Plus there is an element of hypocrisy in that he is happy to write off panda and k361 specifically purchase to compare and review, after only a bunch of tracks. Yet he didn't apply this "take your time" approach, nor did he suggest the "take your time" approach for the k371 and panda. This approach was only suggested to be applied for the APM in his conclusion. Nor did he "burn in" his k361 and panda to have them on an even playing field for the review. He just ordered them, received them, and quickly made the review and case was closed.

I suppose the whole audio community has a range of similar issues with burning in, trying things out long enough, etc.

I suppose I can only relate what I experienced in the time I’ve had with anything, as all of us do. Maybe it helps to mention that the APM sounded better to me on first impression than the others had? Or maybe they grew on me and biased me when comparing to anything else. Who knows for sure.

At least I can say this...the APM can sound better than the K361 and Panda. Maybe I need more time, maybe not. But the fact they even have ability to on any amount of experience with the others...That’s...perhaps at least something.

Who knows man. I surely don’t. That’s why I try to say in my comparison it’s just my ears, with my methods, and honest observations at time of listening. I would highly encourage anyone to try what I did to see if they hear what I did. I kept a log to be entirely transparent. I genuinely want to know if the clarity, soundstage, and other things I highlighted for the APM against the Panda and K361 could be tested for by other ears.

I sincerely respect your criticism. I even messaged my friend with the same concern saying I wasn’t sure if the other headphones were really outperformed in the ways I heard. But that’s what I heard, even given all the disclaimers of burn-in etc.

EDIT:: I want to add that I don’t want to write off the K361 and Panda entirely. I may have been too harsh to paint them as less enjoyable or capable in some situations. They do have positives. Idk what to say about it except they are different and I preferred the way I heard the APM sound. Particularly the clarity, control, soundstage, and authenticity I perceived. Maybe someone disagrees strongly. Again, sorry if they do. I wonder how long they let the APM burn in, or be listened to on their own, before A/B’ing. Or maybe to really test my observations, someone would actually have to rerun my exact comparison. Same headphones, same tracks, same moments where i pointed out I heard what I heard.

This audio world is messed up. People with so many different backgrounds, biases, tastes...all mixed in with a terrible lack of people actually repeating the methods performed by someone else who made claims.

I’m rambling. I’m sorry again to how difficult this all is but I heard what I heard. You have to try yourself. It’s ok to totally disagree with me. There will be no hate or disdain from me if someone has a different experience. Even when DMS and Headphone show didn’t like the APM against the K371/K361, I never meant to paint them as malicious or acting in bad faith. I just didn’t hear what they heard, and share that difference of opinion with people here. To me, the APM are worth more of my money for how much more I enjoy them.

EDIT AGAIN:: I also want to say how I feel for the audio engineers. There are real people behind these headphones we compare, and sometimes we get caught up in expressing opinions without spending enough time to appreciate what they were able to put out there and the tuning they designed and liked themselves. Hey, maybe I need more time to listen to these things. If I was a tech reviewer and these companies sent me these headphones, I would give a lot more time listening. What can we do, you know?
 
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Dec 25, 2020 at 11:41 PM Post #1,616 of 5,654
I don't know how it's possible. I'm not an engineer but there for certain is a distinct difference in the same tracks being played from Tidal than from Apple Music. Apple Music doesn't sound bad it just 'warmer' and muddier. Some albums/tracks are more similar in their sound but some are further apart. I just assumed it was from the Tidal processing but others may have better technical justifications for it. Or, I could be just crazy. I'd love to give up my Tidal Account and save $20 a month and use my family Apple Music plan...
I noticed a distinct difference between Apple Music and Spotify last night. It was pretty stark.
 
Dec 25, 2020 at 11:42 PM Post #1,617 of 5,654
The Mimi app appears to be confused!

FCB64DF0-7134-455B-8F44-2FA6C85B0E84.png1F345E0A-B810-4DD1-84B9-59436321E7A5.png875AE8C1-88FE-490D-B891-6042475BAE8A.png
How can I have no hearing loss but it reports badly?

o m g ...

Effectively
6FFBD7A4-F18D-4EFE-B135-4876D4641FD0.pngObviously this is inaccurate and not meant to represent my auditory health, which a professional health physician just said it was great for my age. Not just that, I just did this to see what was the result and I happened to like it.

You have keep redoing the test it could be a glitch..
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 12:00 AM Post #1,618 of 5,654
A precision from Oratory1990 regarding measuring Apple's devices with adaptive EQ, ie AirPods Pro (and presumably AirPods Max) :

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory199...tory1990_eq_thread_questions_requests/ge0odjp

In other words measuring the APP and APM may require some extra care to make sure that you're getting close to what they truly output.

On Apple's newsroom page there may be an indication of the procedure to follow to ensure that the FR curve measured is representative, if this procedure is the same as the one they used for measuring distortion :

Screenshot 2020-12-16 at 21.05.08.png

Quite curious to see Rtings' and Oratory1990's measurements as well to see where the measurements are consistent across test rigs / methodologies and where they diverge.

I get the sense that computational audio might be similar in impact to computational photography and computational imaging.

To get a sense of what I mean, check out:
https://light.co/

Computational Imaging is the breakthrough behind the latest iPhone and Pixel Cameras. The head of audio at apple has a computational audio PhD before he lead R&D with B&W and going to apple.

The Camera Innovation Team at Apple is rooted in computational imaging and the Audio team is computational audio. I know this because I recruited from these teams to seed new camera innovation initiatives in self driving.

The fields are rooted in the general availability of ubiquitous high power processing that can significantly improve on conventional optical and acoustic systems.

I think it’s difficult to overstate how this will change personal audio. Look at Light’s new camera imaging system for Autonomy. That’s computational imaging performance. Computational audio is here.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 12:10 AM Post #1,619 of 5,654
I’ve heard critique about him a couple times now. Is there a community impression of him I missed? Sorry I haven’t been on the forums for a long time before this thread started.



What does he do that bothers people?
Zeos just like to ramble on and on about things that's not of how the headphone sound. and he regularly does it in over 20 mins format.
then again, there's always a part of headfi that dislike a certain reviewers everywhere so really nothing new.
I enjoy Zeos for his impression on other stuffs, mostly the build, the package, the overall experience, etc. other reviews just lulls me to sleep.
I know they are more relevant and accurate about the specifics , but damn most reviews I can't stand watching. heck even more, reading. only certain people can make reading audio gear review interesting.
 
Dec 26, 2020 at 1:00 AM Post #1,620 of 5,654
I assume you can use different Audiogram profiles for the APP’s and APM’s?
An audiogram is an objective profile of your hearing. It would likely be more accurate if measured by an audiologist using calibrated equipment and in absolute sound insulation, but using an iOS app with a calibrated headset should give you a reasonably accurate result, regardless of the headset used for the test so long as it is on the app's list. Assuming of course that the app is properly designed, and being at the top of Apple's own list on their Health app, I'm assuming it is.

However, I don't think an AP, the only headset on the Mimi list that I happen to have, is ideal. It sits on your ear and has no ambient sound insulation whatsoever. An in ear-or on/over ear headset would surely be better, considering the extremely low amplitude of the test signals.

The app has to reference your hearing against a known headset characteristic: impedance, sensitivity, frequency curve, so that it knows the exact sound pressure level your ear is receiving at each frequency it tests for, at each level. You can only have one accurate audiogram profile.

I am not an expert in this field by any means but I think I am accurate in this.
 
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