[MICHAELSD]

I’m curious, can anyone do a comparison of the AirPods Max vs the HD6XX/650?

I ordered a pair of APMs and that brought me back into the audiophile mindset, which I had been out of for years. That got the ball rolling and made me order the 6XX from Drop.

So now I have both an APM and a 6XX on order.

I’m wondering if both are worthwhile or if the APM is good enough to obviate the need for the Senns. Should I cancel the 6XX order or is it still worth having in addition to the APM?

Several people have compared the AirPods Max favorably to the HD-650. If you’re looking for a wireless package I would cancel the 6xx.

 

[dleblanc343]

I’m curious, can anyone do a comparison of the AirPods Max vs the HD6XX/650?

I ordered a pair of APMs and that brought me back into the audiophile mindset, which I had been out of for years. That got the ball rolling and made me order the 6XX from Drop.

So now I have both an APM and a 6XX on order.

I’m wondering if both are worthwhile or if the APM is good enough to obviate the need for the Senns. Should I cancel the 6XX order or is it still worth having in addition to the APM?

If you don’t plan on using any form of DAC/ amp for HD6XX, forget it.

They sound better than the APM if given a bit of juice, but otherwise APM is similar calibre, but with more sub bass and less airiness/ treble.

Mids on the Apple are more warm tilted with a slight recession in female vocals, whereas HD6XX mids are pretty much perfect.

APM is an awesome product though, really impressed and want one so badly

 

[Rolen_it_Up]

Who do you think is going out of business because of this product?

I wouldn't normally reply here, because that's not at all what I said, but I actually think this notion merits discussion.

At first, naturally, nobody will go out of business because of the APM. But I do believe they will disrupt the industry.

AirPods have already completely turned the IEM world on it's head. Everyone and their mother owns a pair, and anyone who thinks that AirPods haven't crippled the sales of a bunch of companies out there is fooling themselves. Apple carved out a monster segment of the $150-$250 IEM market, and there are a lot of companies feeling that right now.

I have no reason to believe that this product will be any different. How many iOS users who would've otherwise considered Sony or Bose will save up or spend more to get these? I think the number will be huge. Apple has a spectacularly successful history of getting consumers to spend a little more for a product that "just works" and these absolutely do.

So, back to the original question: who might be going out of business?

Bose is already a brand struggling for an identity. They've still yet to fully recover from the hit they took from Beats muscling them out of market share (remember the days when people like us talked about Beats all the time with dismay at their prevalence?) and now they're facing onslaught on all sides from companies like Sonos, etc. They also closed all of their retail stores, permanently, earlier this year. Are they really long for this world, without completely rethinking what they are?

I do believe that the original question was meant to be snark. But it shouldn't be.

That kind of dismissiveness is reminiscent the tone from Nokia, RIM, and Palm in 2007. How are they doing now?

 

[buzzlulu]

I know this could be taboo here but:

You guys are aware that you can tweak the sound in iOS Accessibility Settings, right? That could compensate for some of the shortcomings based on individual preference.

Can be found in Settings > Accessibility > AirPods > (Select AirPods Model) > Audio Accessibility Settings > Headphone Accommodations (On) then go from from there, you can do custom audio setup which has you A/B test a sound clip or you can select your own tuning preferences (fine print explains what you're modifying).

OK
EVERYONE needs to try this
WOW!

 

[Heyyoudvd]

If you don’t plan on using any form of DAC/ amp for HD6XX, forget it.

They sound better than the APM if given a bit of juice, but otherwise APM is similar calibre, but with more sub bass and less airiness/ treble.

Mids on the Apple are more warm tilted with a slight recession in female vocals, whereas HD6XX mids are pretty much perfect.

APM is an awesome product though, really impressed and want one so badly

What if I plan on getting something like a Liquid Spark or L30 to use with the 6XX?

Would it be worth getting in addition to the APM or should I not bother?

 

[filmgeek47]

I have my old PM3s somewhere around here, although as I recall, I really preferred to listen to those with the HA-2 amp. I’d have to dig that setup out of a box (haven’t listened to them since I moved at the beginning of this year). Will try to do that sometime in the next couple of days, I want to put these things through their paces in the next week so that I can decide whether they’re going back by end of year.

Fantastic, thanks.

 

[bedlamite]

What if I plan on getting something like a Liquid Spark or L30 to use with the 6XX?

Would it be worth getting in addition to the APM or should I not bother?

I think the question now is do you want the freedom of wireless and all the extra stuff that Apple’s software gets you (spatial audio,etc, assuming you’re in the Apple ecosystem), with possibly a slight hit in audio quality, or a more traditional desk-based setup?

 

[Sp12er3]

I wouldn't normally reply here, because that's not at all what I said, but I actually think this notion merits discussion.

At first, naturally, nobody will go out of business because of the APM. But I do believe they will disrupt the industry.

AirPods have already completely turned the IEM world on it's head. Everyone and their mother owns a pair, and anyone who thinks that AirPods haven't crippled the sales of a bunch of companies out there is fooling themselves. Apple carved out a monster segment of the $150-$250 IEM market, and there are a lot of companies feeling that right now.

I have no reason to believe that this product will be any different. How many iOS users who would've otherwise considered Sony or Bose will save up or spend more to get these? I think the number will be huge. Apple has a spectacularly successful history of getting consumers to spend a little more for a product that "just works" and these absolutely do.

So, back to the original question: who might be going out of business?

Bose is already a brand struggling for an identity. They've still yet to fully recover from the hit they took from Beats muscling them out of market share (remember the days when people like us talked about Beats all the time with dismay at their prevalence?) and now they're facing onslaught on all sides from companies like Sonos, etc. They also closed all of their retail stores, permanently, earlier this year. Are they really long for this world, without completely rethinking what they are?

I do believe that the original question was meant to be snark. But it shouldn't be.

That kind of dismissiveness is reminiscent the tone from Nokia, RIM, and Palm in 2007. How are they doing now?

well duh, of course, I do believe Apple coming here is a good injection in competition, as honestly many of the current offerings are just doing "barely good" attempt at Wireless ANC offerings, both on ease of use and sound performance, only one or two brand is out there setting the standard. now with such a prominent big name on the market, they had to start changing things up, Sony and Sennheiser would probably be fine but Bose just changed their design a couple short years ago, and with mediocre reception as well on top of them crippling the ANC of their QC35.... yeah, they dont look so good r/n IMO.

Mike's view on it.

 

[Heyyoudvd]

I think the question now is do you want the freedom of wireless and all the extra stuff that Apple’s software gets you (spatial audio,etc, assuming you’re in the Apple ecosystem), with possibly a slight hit in audio quality, or a more traditional desk-based setup?

I should clarify that it’s not one or the other; it’s one or both.

I’m deep in the Apple ecosystem, so the AirPods Max seem like a great product product to me, especially with all the Apple-y features, like the spatial audio. So I’m getting the AirPods Max regardless.

The question is whether I should get the 6XX in addition to them. When I’m listening to music at my desk, will the 6XX offer an experience that is different enough or good enough to make them worth purchasing in addition to the APMs, or do the APMs basically make the 6XX redundant?

 

[Trager]

Fantastic, thanks.

So a buddy of mine was asking the same question, and he badgered me until I pulled out my PM-3 and did a brief comparison. Now, I wasn’t using the HA-2 amp (which really brings the bass out of the PM-3 and makes everything more dynamic) and I was using the typical lightning to 3.5mm adapter straight out of my iPhone. Playlist was on TIDAL, a mix of hifi and MQA tracks. I’m not going to go through a track by track compare because I want to do more listening with the APMs (and I do think there may be some burn-in, or at least ear-adjustment).

The conclusion I came to, though, was that the APMs and PM-3s are definitely on par in the sound department. They have different strengths — that APM soundstage is something else, even if it’s not 100% accurate; the bass on the APMs goes a lot deeper than unamped PM-3s and has more slam and presence; the PM-3 vocals are cleaner and more energetic; PM-3 is more consistent and natural across the spectrum. To my mind, though, just being able to say that they’re close in terms of overall sound quality is quite a compliment to the APMs. For the most part, the test tracks where I had some concerns with the APM were the ones that I loved the PM-3s on, and the ones where the PM-3s were a little lacking were ones that impressed me with the APMs.

 

[kazsud]

Maybe they have the same strategy for headphones as they did w/ their processors

According to CNET Apple had prototypes of AirPods Max that would have cost upwards of $1,000 once they reached production.

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-airpods-max-review-price-hurts-but-these-headphones-are-excellent/

I don’t have an issue with the $549 price in itself, I just would have expected more than a conventional headphone design with a premium build to justify it on paper. Now that reviews are starting to be released, it does seem that more critics than not are feeling that the price is justified and that the audio quality is approaching high-end territory.

I am familiar with Apple‘s approach to pricing, which is to design the product first then price it accordingly. I think they made the right call by deciding that $1,000+ headphones would be too niche. Still, this feels like a luxury product/status symbol first and foremost when positioned on the consumer market.

 

[torifile]

A little more critical listening tonight. Using Kid A, another album I know very well, and the LCD-2C is clearly better. Soundstage is definitely wider and the separation is more noticeable. Things are just crisper as you'd expect from a planar magnetic headphone. The APM is a little congested but it's been a very long time since I listened to some good closed back headphones so I don't know if that's just typical of the closed design.

That said, and this is nuts to be bringing into a discussion with Apple - I think they are worth the money relative to what the LCD-2C adds and costs to sound this good. My setup costs well over $1000 between the cans and the DAC/amp (Modius and Asgard 3). Which do I see myself using more? Absolutely, hands down, the APM. They sound more than good enough for me and the convenience far outweighs the better SQ from the Audeze.

I don't know what crinkle is talking about saying they sound bad. I had the XM3 for a while and I did not enjoy listening to music with them. I would because they were what I had but they were not my first choice and I sold them when I got back from my travels.

For me, the APMs are keepers. They are not hifi quality. Mid-fi is debatable but that's where they're priced. Do with that what you will.

 

[bedlamite]

...At first, naturally, nobody will go out of business because of the APM. But I do believe they will disrupt the industry.

AirPods have already completely turned the IEM world on it's head. Everyone and their mother owns a pair, and anyone who thinks that AirPods haven't crippled the sales of a bunch of companies out there is fooling themselves. Apple carved out a monster segment of the $150-$250 IEM market, and there are a lot of companies feeling that right now.

I have no reason to believe that this product will be any different...

For anybody immersed in the Apple ecosystem, an Apple product is always going to be their first consideration because of how well it integrates with all their other Apple devices. You’re absolutely right that Apple is eating other peoples’ lunch, anecdotally speaking I myself got a pair of APPs soon after I jumped from Android to the new iPhone. This, when I’ve mulling over the purchase of a pair of Jabra 75ts for months.

The APMs are already a hit, I don’t think that’s up for dispute. They won’t be as mainstream as the APP though, because of the form factor and pricing. Plus these don’t look like they’re made to be worn outdoors, mesh and aluminium aren’t exactly hardy materials.

When Apple comes out with a 400USD mid-tier AirPods ANC can (inevitable since that’s the only market segment they haven’t covered), that’s really going to shake the market up. Bose has been in a funk for years and Sony is just coasting at this point.

I should clarify that it’s not one or the other; it’s one or both.

I’m deep in the Apple ecosystem, so the AirPods Max seem like a great product product to me, especially with all the Apple-y features, like the spatial audio. So I’m getting the AirPods Max regardless.

The question is whether I should get the 6XX in addition to them. When I’m listening to music at my desk, will the 6XX offer an experience that is different enough or good enough to make them worth purchasing in addition to the APMs, or do the APMs basically make the 6XX redundant?

I can only speak for myself, but my wireless gear gets far more use these days than the wired desktop setup. There’s a hit in audio quality, but the freedom of wireless is liberating and you’re no longer chained to your desk.

The HD6XXs aren’t a bad way to go if you want a more traditional audiophile setup, but I’ll wager you’ll be using your APMs much more just for convenience’s sake.

 

[Rolen_it_Up]

I'm not ready to do a full, detailed comparison of the sound differences between the APM and the H95, but I thought I'd take a few minutes to explore the design.

So, here is a detailed design comparison:

I'm very happy to have purchased Silver on the AirPods Max, as it makes for a very nice visual comparison with what is, in my opinion, the best color of the H95.

The case is, well, hilariously bad on the APM. I want to say "what was Apple thinking here?" But they have a history of screwing stuff like this up. Anybody remember the horrifying iPhone battery cases from a few years back? Obviously B&O delivers an exceptionally nice case, even if it is a touch large. It almost feels like a Rimowa case (they've done collabs before, so not a stretch).

Once we get them out of their cases you immediately notice something striking: Apple's fit and finish is absolutely on par with Bang & Olufsen, and that's no small feat. These are not entry level B&O headphones (I've owned H6s in the past, so I know the difference), this is the most expensive can B&O has ever made and it shows. But Apple is in the same quality ballpark, and honestly for $550 they shouldn't be.

The fact that Apple made these entire headphones out of aluminum and stainless steel has been all over the news, for good and bad, but the simple truth is that humans equate weight with quality more often than not, and these feel premium as a result. But these two headphones achieve their premium feeling in very different ways, despite the initial appearance that they are very similar.

Apple does great work with aluminum. All of their aluminum products are finished to nearly impossible standards of perfection, and the ear cups on the APM are no exception. They feel great. So smooth, so solid, and they really don't show fingerprints, which is a huge plus. The cups though, especially next to the H95, cannot help but look plain. It's almost shocking that Apple didn't slap logos on them. They could've done it in a way that looks classy, rather than tacky - think the back of the newer MacBook Pro and Air line. Something reflective like that would've done so much to break up the visual monotony of the large, aluminum slabs affixed to your ears.

Apple may do great work with aluminum, but B&O does it even better. Nobody on earth does things with aluminum like Bang & Olufsen. The ear cups on these headphones are just a step above anything else out there. They refract light in an almost hypnotic way, and they're beautiful on a level that exceeds just about anything else on the market, regardless of price. Just look at the different pictures of the H95 and you'll see just how different the cups look at different angles. It's truly incredible what B&O can do with aluminum.

Then we get to the ear pads. This should be a slam dunk, unequivocal win for B&O, but it's not quite that simple. The lambskin pads they use feel incredible, rivaling the aluminum work for the most premium thing about the design of these headphones. But Apple does some really cool stuff with their pads too. First, they get props for not killing an animal (I know that this doesn't matter to a lot of people, but I applaud Apple for the decision). Next, the memory foam is great, conforms well, seals tightly, and simply nails its intended purpose. And because the APM are a little larger, and deeper, there is more room for the larger eared amongst us. Honestly, I call this a draw.

Looking at the side profile, focusing on the controls, this is the area where I think B&O dominates this comparison the most decisively. Yes, they unabashedly copied Microsoft. The two dials are the exact same concept as the Surface Headphones. But you know what? It's a great concept and I'm glad they copied it. Having one ear change volume and the other NC is perfection. And physical rotary dials win over touch controls ten times out of ten. Apple on the other hand makes a big deal about their Digital Crown, and I guess it's fine, compared to other headphones, but in this comparison it's sorely lacking. I'm an Apple Watch owner, and I don't love it there, and I don't love it here either.

Finally we get to the biggest win for Apple - the headband. They flat out nailed this. It's the best headband I've ever used on a pair of headphones, ever. It really reminds me of the Sony Qualia/SA5000 design from back in the day. I loved that headband, and I love this one even more. I have nothing bad to say about it at all. I love the material - the rubberish/plastic whatever it is feels amazing. It's super soft to the touch, smooth without being slick, and just a bit tacky without being sticky or catching lint. Honestly, this headband is perfect. I want it on every pair of headphones I own for the rest of my life.

B&O meanwhile really doesn't know how to make a headband. My H6 headband sucked, and this is barely, just barely better. The material on the top is leatherish - nowhere near as premium as the ear pads. The material that rests on your head is soft, but not soft enough. If these headphones were any heavier the headband would ruin the comfort, but they're just light enough to make it passable. Bang & Olufsen, if you're reading head-fi, make a better headband. $800 headphones deserve better execution than this.

As an epilogue, a mention of stainless steel. When Apple announced the APM, I was perplexed by the decision to use stainless steel, and I still am. It looks amazing and gives these headphones an indestructible vibe, but it's overkill. It adds so much weight that it can't possibly be worth the tradeoff. B&O uses fantastic looking aluminum in the same places, and at no point have I ever felt it lacking. Apple didn't need to do this, and probably shouldn't in future designs. I do love looking at it though.

So, that's a wrap. Apple did a remarkable job here. But B&O did a better one. That should be what most people expected.

 

[tkddans]

I'm not ready to do a full, detailed comparison of the sound differences between the APM and the H95, but I thought I'd take a few minutes to explore the design.

Oh come on, how about just a little impression? haha

I'm too impatient and want to know what you hear