AirPods Max

Dec 16, 2020 at 10:34 AM Post #466 of 5,698
Compared to Shure Aonic 50, APM has a soundstage a notch narrower than SA50. SA50 has better instrument separation and more neutral freq response.

While I "prefer" the way SA50 sounds overall, I'm amazed at how APM seems to be specifically tuned to mask the warts of AAC compressed audio. The SA50, being more technically accurate, has pronounced sibilance [edit: some have pointed out this is due to treble peaks in SA50 curve] using Apple Music as a source. APM makes Apple Music files sound somehow "clearer" albeit with a trace of that digitally processed sound someone mentioned earlier in this thread. It's handled well here so I think it's subjective whether someone would like that type of DSP.

For the target audience listening on Apple Music (or similar quality), APM will make their music sound different in a way that many will consider better.
 
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Dec 16, 2020 at 10:47 AM Post #469 of 5,698
Hate hearing all the PX7 downgrading! Makes me want to be in the cool APM club. I can live with my PX7's, I think?
Oh yeah, like there’s is def a difference, but I think the PX7s are still decent. And it is £2-300 more. Also, environmentally, I’d say there def isn’t enough of a difference to get a new thing with a battery in.
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 10:48 AM Post #470 of 5,698
Thanks for quite a detailed review and thankyou for giving it audiophile-like criticalness and comparing it to audiophile standards. I get that the overall impression is fine and people are happy with the outcome but after reading that review I am thinking that the APM doesn't do that well with sound.

Summarising your review:
Bass: Good extension but blooming and lacking in control tightness and slam.
Mid: Lower mid thin, decent upper mid.
Treble: Lower treble smooth but lacking some weight, upper treble short on extension and presence.

Anyway curious to further reviews.

Thanks but careful it's not a review at all (I spend much more time on them) just first impressions and the dynamic driver is not burnt in so to take with a grain of salt. Also haven't checked out the performance wired, should be receiving the cable monday.

And if it seemed like I thought the APM was bad, that's not what I think at all... the criticism I have is compared to upper end audiophile gear I own and in absolute terms. I am being extra critical here and again might not be the final picture dynamic drivers need burn in and bass can tighten. APM is vastly superior to the Sony WH1000 IMHO with a much more mature tuning.

Keep in mind there is adaptative EQ going on there. We all might not hear the same thing.

This will skew measurements by the way and I'd wait for real measurements done by experts if they can be done properly given adptative EQ.
 
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Dec 16, 2020 at 10:48 AM Post #471 of 5,698
I'm using Sennheiser HD 800 + Hegel HD12 DAC and I love the HD 800. They might sound boring to some but they offer a great and wide soundstage which I love. Of course the AirPods Max is using some kind of software trickery to achieve it's sense of width and space, how would you otherwise get closed-back wireless ANC headphones feeling really wide and spacious? But from my experience Apple has done a great job here, it doesn't feel artificial and it feels almost as wide as my Sennheiser HD 800.

I do think soundstage is achieved via a gimmick. I have the HD800S, so I know what grand sound stage sounds like. The Airpods Max wasn't it. That's what I mean when I said it was screwing with the imaging.
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 10:51 AM Post #472 of 5,698
While I agree soundstage is nothing to rave about in audio mode, I don't hear imaging as being totally off, do you have an example?
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:00 AM Post #474 of 5,698
Oh yeah, like there’s is def a difference, but I think the PX7s are still decent. And it is £2-300 more. Also, environmentally, I’d say there def isn’t enough of a difference to get a new thing with a battery in.
Between all the gear I have for home listening and my wired units I will be ok with the PX7's. (as long as I stay away from here, LOL)
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:06 AM Post #475 of 5,698
I will returning the APM tomorrow.

The good:
- Very good exciting consumer type of sound.
- Best anc of all anc headphones I trying in the past, including xm3, xm4, nc700, qc35 and qc35II.
- Excellent ambient mode.
- Excellent for telephone calls.
- You can quickly changing the volume easily and in very small increments if necessary.
- With Apple devices connection is very quickly.
- BT range is the best of all bt I trying before.

The no so good or bad:
- Terrible case that isn't protecting the headphones.
- No on/off button
- More mid-bass than I preferring that is affecting the mids a little; little recessed mids. Sometimes with some music the sound is little muddy.
- After only 30 minutes I start feeling discomfort in my ears, isn't exactly the clamping aspect but I'm feeling strange pressure and this is too happening in the top of my head; and my ears are getting a little hot and starting little sweat too. With my h95 I can wearing for many hours and don't having all this problems.
- User experience with volume dial and anc button isn't great. Sometimes I accidentally increasing or lowering the volume and/or change anc/ambient/off mode when adjusting the position of the headphones or when I putting away for few minutes. The double/triple clicking of the dial isn't always responding correctly. I'm a person that is changing tracks constantly so this is sometimes not very good. The user experience with my h95 is many, many better.
- For travelling is important that a headphone having folding possibility for better portability. When cases becoming available in the future the package will be bulky because the headband too is very wide.
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:12 AM Post #476 of 5,698
How do they compare to your existing cans? Are you keeping?

Compared to Z1R's and Empyreans, it's not really a fair comparison. They do kinda remind me of my Denon MM400's though. Not quite as clear but a bit punchier.
I plan on keeping the APM. They sound fun to me and the best wireless I've heard so far compared to vmoda crossfade 2, qc35, XM3). Plus the seamless pairing to my iOS devices and even paired to my Windows PC is really convenient for music and work conferences.
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:12 AM Post #477 of 5,698
So I received the AirPods Max and aside form the fact I had to put it in pairing mode to pair to the iPhone 12 Pro Max nothing to report.

I see the comments on the weight, I didn't even bother to check but they do weight a bit although the headband is comfortable and the pads are breathy the ears don't get warm. This being said the weight is well balanced and confort is good although a bit lighter would have been nicer.

First impressions out of the box, this is over BT (I'll try cable later) Apple managed to pull off a natural sounding headphone, the bottom end has excellent sub bass extension and presence and control is fairly good although nothing to rave about either there is a bit of blooming there. I think Apple went a bit too far in terms of sub presence to add some physicality. Of course drivers are not burnt in so I'll reserve the definitive impression for later. The mid bass slam is quite good but again I wished it was a bit tighter with better control and I hear some blooming as well. This will show on my usual test tracks but not necessarily on less bass heavy tracks so keep in mind you might not hear it at first. Again, drivers OOB so not burnt in. On the flipside the bass has suprisingly good textures, rich detail and percussions sound very good as well as double bass. Mid bass presence is not overdone although there is a bit of emphasis. There is a strong rythmic baseline providing good rythm although pace is not the fastest either at least out of the box.

I don't read the midrange as recessed contrary to some comments, but that might depend on which genres people have tested their APM with. To me Apple has aimed at an articulate, clear and neutral / natural midrange. If anything maybe a little too conservative in the lower mids I woud peg the mids as a bit thin. They probably wanted to avoid the APM to sound congested given the overall bass presence. Upper mids have nice bite to them and that was not expected it's quite a lively and fairly energetic midrange and Jazz works pretty well with the APM. Timbre is fairly accurate which is also a good surprise little to no added warmth. Intruments separation is pretty good. As others have reported, vocals are clear and forwardly positioned. APM seems free of sibilance and remains smooth despite good energy and power in female vocals, APM will convey a lot of emotion on great vocal performances here. Much better than my Sony WH1000. Given the lower mids tuning I mentioned earlier, male vocals lack a bit of power but there is plenty of detail and the APM conveys a lot of nuances.

On to the treble, there is very nice lower treble presence and energy and the APM is quite engaging while remaining smooth I just wished there was a bit more weight to the notes but that's what I prefer especially for piano. I am nitpicking. Upper treble is where I think the APM fall short extension is not bad but I miss some presence here, it's a bit lost in the mix and it would have taken the APM to another level. Again, OOB impressions drivers are not burnt in but still. I might be heavily biased owning quite a few TOTL CIEMs and I know my test tracks to the infinitesimal detail.

If you're not in critical listening mode, there is very little that will bother me (aside maybe for the bass bloom and it might go away with burn in.) we should all remember we're talking BT headphones here and the APM is the best I have heard so far. To me Apple nailed it aside from high pricing for the segment and all the talk about APM beating headphones wired to nice DAPs and amps is probably unreasonable expectations.

I still have to test out the spatial sound, I bought the APM for watching movies and tv shows or conference calls not mainly for music where I have plenty of things handy :)

I'll give a shot to the APM cabled and plug it to the Hiby R8, I might still have a shocker in store....

Great review. I hear it similarly to you. The APM are not high end audiophile headphones and they weren't intended to be such, so they won't be replacing anything I listen to on a daily basis. Most people aren't looking for that level of audio experience, so it's not surprising that this sound works for so many people. To me, they are good sounding noise cancellation, Bluetooth headphones.

That's what I am hearing in the bass. Bass bloom and I really don't like it. My target use case is exactly as yours and I didn't get to demo it in that mode since there was no content available in the store where I auditioned them. To me, that is the use case that has the most potential. I felt the mids is where these cans lost me. I listen to a lot of male vocals. I put on Justin Bieber's "Love Yourself" and it wasn't even close sounding right. It lacked the clarity and fullness that I am used to hearing it. The noise cancellation and transparency mode are world class, but they are 2 features I don't need.
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:24 AM Post #478 of 5,698
Compared to Z1R's and Empyreans, it's not really a fair comparison. They do kinda remind me of my Denon MM400's though. Not quite as clear but a bit punchier.
I plan on keeping the APM. They sound fun to me and the best wireless I've heard so far compared to vmoda crossfade 2, qc35, XM3). Plus the seamless pairing to my iOS devices and even paired to my Windows PC is really convenient for music and work conferences.

I have the Empyreans so even though i understand they're not in the same league would you mind giving some comparative notes? Would help me get a better sense of the APM since I own the Empys. Thanks
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:27 AM Post #479 of 5,698
I read a couple of comments asking for the listening experience of wireless vs wired. Reposting what I wrote up earlier yesterday, just in case it may be helpful. I've edited a little as I've had about 5 hours of additional listening.
---------------------------

I'm mainly posting to share my thoughts on wireless SQ vs wired SQ (Apple lightning to 3.5 adapter cable). Listening to Blinding Lights and In Your Eyes by The Weeknd.

Wireless - as many others posted, good...no, great soundstage. Highs have sparkle. Overall sonics are very clean. Mids are a bit recessed, but present. Lows are very clean and more accurate than boomy, but still fairly bassy. There is a definite digital formula to the sound overall, but it's so well done and I am having a hard time realizing this is wireless audio. So damn well done. SQ has more clarity and is more upfront when paired to iOS, and while using Mac OS the overall clarity is a tad recessed.

Wired to a Dragonfly, Tidal MQA - More sparkle, crispier sibilance, and more separation. Dare I say even wider soundstage? Highs and lows have a tad more attack/control and are a bit tighter. Now here's the interesting part. The mids have come out of hiding and have joined the highs/lows, although still not front-stage like the highs and lows. Overall, the sound signature sounds more balanced, is a little brighter and clarity steps up a couple of levels. Wired makes the wireless sound sig seem darker and smoother, while wired is more analytical with cleaner separation and mids more present.

Having listened to a variety of music yesterday (instrumental, vocal, classical, jpop, jazz...), I gotta say these are fairly well-rounded headphones that are wonderful for long listening sessions. Perhaps the most comfortable cans I own, despite the weight. For those of you who are into electronic, house, chill hop, lo-fi ( and any of those sub genres), these APMs may end up being your go-to headphones.

Negs: for what they are, SQ is incredible overall, yet lows and bass punch could be a little tighter (though very very very good still!). Could use sound profiles (hopefully Apple adds this in an update)

Overall, on this first impression, I'm lovestruck. Get them if you still can if you want the best wireless experience, imo
 
Dec 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM Post #480 of 5,698
I bought the APM and have had them for a short time. First impressions only so far, but I felt the desire to share since reading so much said from others. I'll keep it really simple for now for an overview of my feelings.

My background as an audiophile and what I like in my sound
I've personally tried many high end wired, open back headphones at stores, gatherings of enthusiasts, and even once in Japan when I visited an audio shop there.
After many trying headphones out throughout this time, buying and selling/trading pairs, I now sit on only two pairs I couldn't want to do without: Sennheiser HD 800 S and 650.

While other headphones made strong impressions for their own special qualities, I've never liked them enough to keep them for the cost. Very personal and subjective of course. I'm in love with soundstage, clarity, separation. Without these qualities, even if a headphone does very well in punchy mids, strong bass, or unsibilant trebles, I just don't find myself appreciating them. I have quite my own bias here. 800 S is my ultimate pair for reference and for what I find the most joy in. Clarity is king, IMO.

Apple Fanboy
I am one. Oops? I get flack for it from a friend, but hey...if they make nice things, and I want nice things, why is that bad? Good design is a bias I have, and Apple has good aesthetic sense, from the Mac OS to everything else IMO. I'm saying this because I am aware of confirmation bias. As much as an Apple fan as I am, I've had a separate hobby altogether within this audiophile world. I want to approach an audio product Apple makes with skepticism and objective listening, as I have tried hard to do with any audio product.

AirPods Max: My impressions and verdict for their place in my life
Like most people on this forum, as an enthusiast in audio, I bought these headphones with skepticism. I entirely counted on these to sound only as good as any true wireless headphones (like everyone else, I expected these to compare to the Sony and Bose offerings near the $250-350 price points).

Unboxing
Great, sure. That cardboard opened pretty. The APM box was inside, with the APM waiting to simply be picked up. Simple. Clean. Nice. Does that matter for audio? No. Moving on.

"Case"
This isn't a case. But I'm going to say something very debatable...I think the headphones will stand up to being thrown in bags just fine. The cover that comes with the headphones may actually be the only level of protection it needs, and it's just because the metal can scratch, so it protects scratching. The headrest, if you actually try bending and pushing on it, is actually very pliable and resistant to any kind of breaking or wear that other portable headphones might be more prone to when thrown in a bag. I could be wrong. I'm ready to eat my words as we see people use these over time, but I think this may POSSIBLY be a situation where a hard carrying case wouldn't be needed.

What's more because of this minimal covering, or lack of hard case altogether, is that the APM will take up a similar space to even the smallest case designs of wireless headphone competitors, such as the Sony's (I love that case, simply the best I've seen IMO). So traveling with these will be easy to do, as easy as bringing any completely encased wireless competitors. Just bag it and stop worrying with these.

What I don't see anyone mentioning either is how easy it now is to actually take out and use the headphones. The covering being so easy to open with a magnetic flap means you can skip the usual steps of unzipping and zipping. You don't need to think as much about where to put the case away either. Stick it in the seat compartment ahead of you on the plane if you want, it'll fit. Same can't be said about hard cases where you have to put it back into a backpack. Apple has always tried to remove steps of work from the user experience, and that's kind of what they are doing here.

Does it affect sound quality? No. Moving on.

Comfort and Form Factor
They are heavy. Wired headphones weigh less.
They are smaller though than many high end wired headphones.

Try comparing them side by side to HD 800's or 600/650/6xx. The APM have shorter ear cups, but still enough space to completely go around the ears without sitting on them at any point. I have big ears, I think, and the cups just barely make their way around my ears comfortably. People who say these are big...they are not comparing these to high end wired headphones. They're on the smaller end for the full sized category.

The heavy weight of the headphones doesn't bother me too much, but maybe a little, just a little. I mean, how can you go from the light but beautiful, spacious HD 800's to anything else? The APM are simply not comparable to those kings of comfort IMO. BUT, the APM are still comfortable enough to wear for hours without feeling any pain anywhere.
- You won't feel abrasion from the cushion material, the mesh (unless you move them around a lot and your skin would feel that friction).
- You won't feel neck pain or pain on the top of your head where the mesh canopy sits, unless you set the headphones low enough. There's a kind of sweet spot of adjusting these where you can allow the canopy to sit on your head, but not too far that you don't let the cup pressure take some of the weight away. The cups do squeeze well enough on the sides of the head that you can let it carry some of the weight away from the headrest. I suspect some people complaining about the headrest or cups may not be finding the balance between the two. Spend some time adjusting the telescoping arms and you'll find a comfortable spot for you.

After years of keeping my HD 800's on a wooden headphone stand, with a bag covering them for dust protecting, and with the thick and long wires dangling out around my desk and into the AMP/DAC....it's quite freeing to have not only a wireless headphone, but a headphone that doesn't need to be packed up all the time. When I finish using them, I can just slip them into their purse looking sleeve and set them down next to me. I could even imagine putting them right into a backpack or luggage and not truly worrying about what will happen to them.

I'm overall very pleased with the size and the impact the materials/design have on the durability and ease of use those factors bring to real world situations. Everyone's downplaying these things but I think it'll become more and more apparent as people use these over time.

Do these affect sound? No. Moving on.

Tech Features
Great ANC, transparency, hard button controls I prefer over touch controls, and spatial audio is really really great for watching movies and feeling like you are in a surround sound home theater on the go. Simply fantastic implementations across the board without compromising sound quality. I can hardly tell a difference, if there is any at all, between the quality of sound between the ANC, transparency, and off modes. That's fairly special.

Now to talk about sound quality itself...

Sound Quality Impressions
These match high end, open back, wired headphone audiophile expectations. For the $550 price, these are downright affordable.

When you consider the fact that these are cheaper high end headphones that also have portability, durability, terrifically implemented tech features...how could you NOT decide to own these? Seriously, these may take over for many buyers both laymen and audiophile alike.

HOWEVER....high end audiophile gear is very subjective. I can see these competing with many pairs, subjectively anyway, above $1000. Objectively though, they do not reach the same degree of raw performance as my HD 800 S. But...it's just...so subjective.

It is very likely that many people in this community will pick these APM up and have a meh impression. It's hard to imagine them denying the objective qualities of performance: the impressive clarity of every part of the frequency response; the clear separation of instruments and vocals; the up front vocals and clean and present bass. However, opinions can set in that change your decision to actually own these or not.

Personally, despite everything positive I've stated, I'm just not sure if I enjoy them enough to keep when I already have the HD 800 S. While the APM do have more bass (good bass, not muddy at all!), I'm actually finding myself still biased at this time for the more analytical high mids and treble of the HD 800 S. This is such a situation of opinion, again. I can't stress that enough.

You may find yourself keeping APM for what it offers, while keeping the rest of your collection or your other favorite headphones. You may find yourself selling off many others because the APM covers what you want out of most of your listening. It's just fun! It's fun while not sacrificing clarity. Heck, if I could have EQ control to simply lower the bass just a couple dB, I might find the balance I personally want, and I would find myself listening to the APM almost exclusively. I don't think I can bring myself to sell my HD 800 S, because it just nails my preferences so well, but I can see selling my HD 650's and not feeling bad about it. The APM have a comfortable sound to them, which was a big reason for having the 650's. Relaxed listening has never been better for my taste, while also maintaining the clarity I've enjoyed on the often overly analytical 800. Don't get me wrong, it's not AS clear as the 800's. But it's a fantastic, just a fantastic balance of comfort, joy, and clarity, that I haven't had in any other headphone in my first-hand experience.

But hey, this is a community of very strong tastes. We may try the same pair of headphones and have different aspects we each enjoy. One man's trashed big bass or harsh treble may be another's treasured trait.

My Verdict. Keep or return?
Despite all of the praise, for which I think the APM deserves, I may actually return them! It hurts to even type that after saying all this. Why the heck would I do that?

Use cases. That's what it is for me.

When do I use over ear headphones? Would I want to take any over ears on the plane when I already have a super convenient pair of AirPods Pros? I can put those in my pocket! They come off easy, they're nimble, you just can't beat their convenience factor. Ok, so then maybe I can still keep the APM and use them at home only! Ah...but I have the HD 800's for home. Yes, they have the inconvenience of turning on my Schiit amps/dac. Yes, the 800's need to be uncovered from their dust protection and taken off the headrest. Yes, I have to put those items back together and switch off my hardware after every use. But...if I'm home and really want to enjoy music on my computer, I'll bother to do these steps anyway, right?

You know, when I look back on how much I honestly end up using my 800's, I realize I don't use them all that much. I get home from work around 5, I eat dinner, and I try to spend some time with my family. In my situation, my computer is shared with my family too. So my setup isn't always accessed.

So...maybe I keep the APM and find a new routine can be made. They are wireless after all, and lose no quality pairing with my phone at the couch compared to pairing at my desk with my computer. I got a PS5 recently too. I could buy a BT dongle and connect the APM to it, or wire it straight into my controller using a lightning to audio cable. They have built in mics, so I can use them to chat if I want as well.

I can see myself appreciating good audio more often than ever if I keep these. Or will they recede back into disuse like my other gear, due to life getting in the way?

Hmmm...

Everyone's situation is different. Everyone's use cases are different, their preferences too. As it is with every wired, open back headphones, you have to try these out to see how YOU like them compared to other options. To me, they perform on that high end, even though they are wireless and closed back. After that, it's your opinion and taste.
 
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