[tkddans]

I'll see if anything changes, like I said, my ears must have gotten adjusted to upper-mids over time, but the treble and bass standout is generally present. I don't hear it quite like subs are so emphasized like the measurements, there is signficant bass impact and from my experience of FR, significance of impact can't be known from it. Due to mids pulled back and signficance of bass, bass really stands out along with treble. It's a mainstream sound. It's like Apple Beats. Lol. I didn't expect this and thought they weren't going in this direction with what they did with Beats, but they went mainstream.

I had the same first impression. I also felt disappointed when I first heard that elevated sub bass combined with the lowered 1.5 kHz to 4 kHz range. I could only think about how much I missed that range in music.

If you have something at a similar price point or cheaper, perhaps it would be interesting to try a list of tracks, alternating between the two as I have, and see if you can notice the strengths/weaknesses of each. For me, as seen in my log, the APM kept outshining the others simply because it had strengths in fidelity I perceived compared to the other two.

 

[angelom]

You can't hear headphones from recordings. You have to hear what comes out of headphones. I don't understand why this trend exists.

Yes, this this true for the majority of videos you seeing when the 'reviewers' trying doing this and results are mediocre. BUT in this case this person is doing excellent job, and you can seeing him explaining how he's doing this in the beginning of the video (at 8:20) for about 4 minutes. I saying before that nothing obviously can comparing with direct comparison with your own ears, but I must insisting this reviewer is doing this in a very, very good way. I know the 4 headphones he's comparing and I can hearing some of this differences in his video. His video is giving good approximation.

 

[vkenz]

Well yes actually that is what I’m saying. I even texted my friend during these comparisons to tell I’m I was concerned that what I heard could be so influenced by psychological burn in.

He too shared the effect when he went over from the AirPods, which he said he liked more that the APP at first, and he eventually preferred the APP after enough listening.

I myself thought the APP sounded decent enough after having them for awhile, but duringA/B’ing them with the 800 S and APM, my impression of it turned more negative. I still consider they are decent if considering they are small and wireless, but the areas it lacks in stand out after such comparisons and listening periods.

I think such listening periods, where we get used to a sound signature and all the qualities that a headphone - good, bad, or whatever - may be doing something to our perception of what our brain expects “should” exist in playback.

But what can we do? We listen anyway, try to share what we hear, even if it’s heavily biased by existing impressions on our mind, and see if others hear the differences too.

There’s a reason I keep saying try it yourself and to try my methods so we can see if the feelings hold for others.

For science man, for science.

This is really cool stuff. The brain just needs those low frequency rumble and not hearing any sibilant notes to get the brain to release those dopamines. And voila, APM becomes TBE.

 

[spinspin]

Thanks for posting this video.

Based on how people have been saying how bad xm4 sounds to APM I was expecting a strong difference between them when they were tested on the video. For me the difference was smaller than I expected. In some tracks he played I actually found the APMs sound a bit bright and a bit harsh. And also some part I found the APM too forward. I found that sometimes songs or parts of songs found better on this xm4 recording and some part of song and songs sound better on the APM.

Having listened to the comaparison I was curious about his personal description of what he heard and the differences he heard. I was quite surprised how damning he was regarding the xm4. I was thinking did he actually hear what I just heard? Basically the APM did nothing wrong to him and the xm4 had faults which he was more than happy to reiterate.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying the xm4 beats APM, but I found some tracks and parts of tracks I thought the xm4 did better. And like I said I found other parts where the APM did better.

If they were the same price I would probably go for APM for overall SQ. But to take that SQ I would have to begrudglingly accept the unnecessary weight, scratch prone cans, the delicate head band and the bra, questionable durability of the inner pads etc etc, oh and also lack of LDAC. Would I really give up on those things if I am using this as a daily driver? Its hard to say now after hearing his comparison vid and noting some songs or parts of songs I actually preferred on the xm4s.

Very interesting.

So curious about this YouTuber I decided to look at this channel. Low and behold the majority of his videos are about apple, and not just product reviews but also videos regarding hyping something up that's coming up for apple and doing videos on operating systems etc. (Yeah this guy is certified apple fan and his channel is big enough to get decent revenue). However, I do give him props on also reviewing products other than apple, he does have quite a few of those. not sure on how critical or not he is on non-apple stuff, but at least he's not a YouTuber with 95% apple product videos and schilling. Despite his willingness to review some non-apple products he definitely has some bias however.

Here is a new video in youtube where the person is comparing the APM with the sony xm4, bose 700, b&o h9 and the h95. The reviewer is doing excellent job showing the differences in sound so the people can actually hearing this headphones and having better idea of the differences in sound. The comparison with h95 is beginning at 33:35.

Is still obviously different and better when you, like me, having the 2 headphones at the same time for comparing the sound, but this video is probably giving the best option if you having only one of this headphones or not even one. I can hearing more big and clear differences when I doing this comparison between the APM and H95 and I'm using more different music too. Is important realising too that the sound you will hearing in the video will having effect depending on which headphones / earphones you're using for hearing all the audio samples. In a perfect world you must listening with a more neutral headphone / earphone.

 

[SilverEars]

Thanks for posting this video.

Based on how people have been saying how bad xm4 sounds to APM I was expecting a strong difference between them when they were tested on the video. For me the difference was smaller than I expected. In some tracks he played I actually found the APMs sound a bit bright and a bit harsh. And also some part I found the APM too forward. I found that sometimes songs or parts of songs found better on this xm4 recording and some part of song and songs sound better on the APM.

Having listened to the comaparison I was curious about his personal description of what he heard and the differences he heard. I was quite surprised how damning he was regarding the xm4. I was thinking did he actually hear what I just heard? Basically the APM did nothing wrong to him and the xm4 had faults which he was more than happy to reiterate.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying the xm4 beats APM, but I found some tracks and parts of tracks I thought the xm4 did better. And like I said I found other parts where the APM did better.

If they were the same price I would probably go for APM for overall SQ. But to take that SQ I would have to begrudglingly accept the unnecessary weight, scratch prone cans, the delicate head band and the bra, questionable durability of the inner pads etc etc, oh and also lack of LDAC. Would I really give up on those things if I am using this as a daily driver? Its hard to say now after hearing his comparison vid and noting some songs or parts of songs I actually preferred on the xm4s.

Very interesting.

So curious about this YouTuber I decided to look at this channel. Low and behold the majority of his videos are about apple, and not just product reviews but also videos regarding hyping something up that's coming up for apple and doing videos on operating systems etc. (Yeah this guy is certified apple fan and his channel is big enough to get decent revenue). However, I do give him props on also reviewing products other than apple, he does have quite a few of those. not sure on how critical or not he is on non-apple stuff, but at least he's not a YouTuber with 95% apple product videos and schilling. Despite his willingness to review some non-apple products he definitely has some bias however.

I will do a direct comparison between XM3 and APM, and based on initial impressions, People easily say APM is better? Ok, the bass is fairly significant on the XM3 and not really tight and a bit more on the bloated side in comparison, but it seems bass gotten improved with a new firmware. and I generally shelved the bass down. Neither has real quality bass. Also, I always found XM3 to have good upper-mids presence in terms of detailing of the sound. Imaging isn't good as it's flat, but the detailing isn't smoothed as to the extent of the APM. I can't really say ultimately one is technically better than the other besides the differences in how bass quantity is presented. They are within the same domain when it comes to class of headphones and the general sound quality. But, if we look at the responses, the upper-mids are so reduced with the APM that bass has to come up. So, they must be why I hear significant bass due to upper-mids reduction. This is actually a warm response and why I call them Apple Beats.

I know people don't like the XM series due to the flat pads that don't have room, and I see why it doesn't work for them. Bose and Apple are better in this regard. Personally, I don't complain about heat or earpad comfort so I can't add to this. I don't want to pay $60 for replacement Apple pads. That's excessive, and I thought those ZMF lambskin or real leather pads were expensive!

I will see which I ultimately prefer, but XM3 has been my pick over Bose and the others with crappy ANC performances. I do prefer XM3 over XM4 as there are differences between the two.

There's no strong differences than people making it seem. Perhaps they are correlating character differences as better or worse for them. Technically, not really.

Not sure, but shiny Apple looks with the aluminum cut has influencing?

 

[tkddans]

Out if interest. Do those online reviewers recommending cans like the K361 then use affiliate links to sell?

Yes but I wouldn’t necessarily hold that against them. If their argumentation is solid why should it matter ?

Of course, if.

I honestly don’t think they are intentionally acting out of bad faith here. I think the truth may be far more a difference in loads of variables including experience, taste, and methodology in testing. I believe them that they heard better qualities in the K361, but I didn’t feel that. You may feel the way they did, you may not.

Audio preferences have always been this way in the community. We try to listen for “objective” measures, but ultimately any metric is only as useful insofar as we can perceive it and enjoy it. At the end of the day you have to find your way through it and find something you enjoy.

 

[crinacle]

​

​

Fig.2 (above): Frequency response measurements of the AirPods Max (two sets superimposed) posted on Twitter by crinacle. These were made using a GRAS 43AG-7 mounted in a custom fixture (photo).

Some further clarification, that particular measurement is of two different stimuli. The black line is done with periodic white noise averaging on RTA (iPhone 7 Plus used as the output) while the grey lines are done on the "traditional" Farina-sweep on REW (over Bluetooth on a Windows laptop). This was a demonstration to show that the device of choice used should not impact the final tuning of the APM too significantly.

 

[ricksastro]

Thanks for posting this video.

Based on how people have been saying how bad xm4 sounds to APM I was expecting a strong difference between them when they were tested on the video. For me the difference was smaller than I expected. In some tracks he played I actually found the APMs sound a bit bright and a bit harsh. And also some part I found the APM too forward. I found that sometimes songs or parts of songs found better on this xm4 recording and some part of song and songs sound better on the APM.

Having listened to the comaparison I was curious about his personal description of what he heard and the differences he heard. I was quite surprised how damning he was regarding the xm4. I was thinking did he actually hear what I just heard? Basically the APM did nothing wrong to him and the xm4 had faults which he was more than happy to reiterate.

You can't make any qualitative judgements about an individual set from listening to videos like this since the path has too many variables (can to mic to youtube compression to DAC to speaker/cans to your ear). What you can do is make comparative judgements (X is brighter than Y, X has weaker mids than Y). Y may already be too bright in real life so X is way too bright, or Y may be dull in real life and X is just right. It did drive me crazy that he often cut back and forth between music transitions making it harder to figure out if the A/B was the music changing or the cans

You can hear a little of the muddiness in the XM4 in the video and I will say in real life, it's much more noticeable. Even my wife who has 0 interest in this stuff noted the difference between them and the APM was like a screen being lifted.

 

[angelom]

Thanks for posting this video.

Based on how people have been saying how bad xm4 sounds to APM I was expecting a strong difference between them when they were tested on the video. For me the difference was smaller than I expected. In some tracks he played I actually found the APMs sound a bit bright and a bit harsh. And also some part I found the APM too forward. I found that sometimes songs or parts of songs found better on this xm4 recording and some part of song and songs sound better on the APM.

Having listened to the comaparison I was curious about his personal description of what he heard and the differences he heard. I was quite surprised how damning he was regarding the xm4. I was thinking did he actually hear what I just heard? Basically the APM did nothing wrong to him and the xm4 had faults which he was more than happy to reiterate.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying the xm4 beats APM, but I found some tracks and parts of tracks I thought the xm4 did better. And like I said I found other parts where the APM did better.

If they were the same price I would probably go for APM for overall SQ. But to take that SQ I would have to begrudglingly accept the unnecessary weight, scratch prone cans, the delicate head band and the bra, questionable durability of the inner pads etc etc, oh and also lack of LDAC. Would I really give up on those things if I am using this as a daily driver? Its hard to say now after hearing his comparison vid and noting some songs or parts of songs I actually preferred on the xm4s.

Very interesting.

So curious about this YouTuber I decided to look at this channel. Low and behold the majority of his videos are about apple, and not just product reviews but also videos regarding hyping something up that's coming up for apple and doing videos on operating systems etc. (Yeah this guy is certified apple fan and his channel is big enough to get decent revenue). However, I do give him props on also reviewing products other than apple, he does have quite a few of those. not sure on how critical or not he is on non-apple stuff, but at least he's not a YouTuber with 95% apple product videos and schilling. Despite his willingness to review some non-apple products he definitely has some bias however.

Yes, the differences aren't so big and sometimes the xm4 is very close with APM and the nc700 sometimes sounding a little better too. The majority of people often exaggerating that the APM is trashing the xm4 or nc700. I still preferring the APM from my memory of the xm4 and nc700, but the difference isn't so much like many saying.

I think the h9 is sounding sometimes better than APM in the video but the reviewer insisting that APM is better, but he's admitting is only a little. Only with the h95 he's saying the sound is difficult saying which is better. I think only because he knowing the h95 costing $800 and sounding very good. Sometimes unfortunately the music samples aren't giving sufficient aspects in the frequency for more correct differences but in general this 'reviewer' really doing good job. The classical music he's choosing isn't often adequate, is always strings and not even deep cello or double bass for timbre.

I have the xm3 only for anc for travelling, and I don't liking the sound but you can using the eq in the sony app that is making important difference and the sound can improving clearly.

 

[SilverEars]

Yes, the differences aren't so big and sometimes the xm4 is very close with APM and the nc700 sometimes sounding a little better too. The majority of people often exaggerating that the APM is trashing the xm4 or nc700. I still preferring the APM from my memory of the xm4 and nc700, but the difference isn't so much like many saying.

I think the h9 is sounding sometimes better than APM in the video but the reviewer insisting that APM is better, but he's admitting is only a little. Only with the h95 he's saying the sound is difficult saying which is better. I think only because he knowing the h95 costing $800 and sounding very good. Sometimes unfortunately the music samples aren't giving sufficient aspects in the frequency for more correct differences but in general this 'reviewer' really doing good job. The classical music he's choosing isn't often adequate, is always strings and not even deep cello or double bass for timbre.

I have the xm3 only for anc for travelling, and I don't liking the sound but you can using the eq in the sony app that is making important difference and the sound can improving clearly.

It seems like there's fair amount of B&O fans here (Or maybe it was just you?). How's the ANC on them? For me, ANC is the main criteria and then decent sound since I'll only use it on flights where noise is too much that SQ isn't a necessity. $800 is a lot though. It better be good. I lost some interest in B&O due to the TWS tuning had so much treble emphasis.

Nobody has yet to answer this question I asked earlier. Didn't somebody say Apple hired B&W acoustic engineers? They maybe the same people worked on B&W headphones?

 

[Ilomaenkimi]

How did you arrive at that conclusion? I can give an example of one headphone Tyll was surpised with fair amount of harmonic distortion and it was the HE1000. And I I've heard this about other Hifimans. I know from experience Hifiman planars have good imaging or 3D sounding.

In addition, tube amps are known to add distortions and people commonly say tube sounds more 3D and I have experienced this with certain tube amps.

And you are talking about 3D and stage based just on distortion figures on a closedback headphone? You saying big airy sound stage on a closedback?

So, is your statement grounded in anything?

If you read my post; my experience.
And read the last lines of my post again.

Yes i am saying big airy soundstage on closedback. Have you heard Focal Stellias with Linn ADSM+SPL Phonitor XE? Linn Silver XLR and ForzaAudioworks balanced cable.
There is low distortion with in all of the components

You dont need openback to achieve big and airy soundstage.

Havent heard hifimans.

But again; just my experiences. To my ears.
Nothing to prove it. And i dont have to either.

Edit: this is Apple Airpods pro Max discussion thread by the way. Strange how we talk something else. Including my own posts.

How about Focal Stellia-thread, is there discussion about APM's going on?

 

[SilverEars]

If you read my post; my experience.
And read the last lines of my post again.
Yes i am saying big airy soundstage on closedback. Have you heard Focal Stellias with Linn ADSM+SPL Phonitor XE? Linn Silver XLR and ForzaAudioworks balanced cable. You dont need openback to achieve big and airy soundstage.
But again; just my experiences. To my ears.
Nothing to prove it. And i dont have to either.

Yes, Stellia has one of the largest stage for a closed-back. I preferred it out of a transformer out tube amp and that may have improved the imaging. Z1R and TH900 also have large soundstage for a closedback. The common theme here is the room inside the pads/cups. Distortion is a separate parameter.

 

[angelom]

It seems like there's fair amount of B&O fans here (Or maybe it was just you?). How's the ANC on them? For me, ANC is the main criteria and then decent sound since I'll only use it on flights where noise is too much that SQ isn't a necessity. $800 is a lot though. It better be good. I lost some interest in B&O due to the TWS tuning had so much treble emphasis.

Nobody has yet to answer this question I asked earlier. Didn't somebody say Apple hired B&W acoustic engineers? They maybe the same people worked on B&W headphones?

I'm the only person mentioning the h95 here and I'm NOT a fan of b&o (or other brands), this can't be more incorrect. I owning before h7, h8, h9 1g, h9i, h9 3g, e8 1g, e8 2g and the small speaker A1. I only keeping the h8 and returning the rest because h8 is having leather earpads (my ears don't getting hot or sweating) for the anc for the travels (but sq isn't good, I needing eq'ing). Only the h9 is coming close with better sound for me after little eq'ing in the b&o app but the shape of the earpads isn't good for my ears. I keeping too the A1 from the day of the release because is very good speaker for the size.

I writing a post here before about the $800 price of the h95 and explaining that if you looking more carefully at what h95 is including in the complete package, maybe the h95 is little more cheap (or less expensive) even than APM, specially in Europe (APM €630, h95 €800). People ignoring that post.

 

[Jonathan268]

The APM is just beginning, small step that Apple get into headphones arena. If history repeat whenever Apple itself has ability to control and design both HW + SW (say integrate into its ecosystem) the products would be special.
First iPhone 2G did not kill Nokia, Blackberry phones until iPhone 4 with iTunes, Apple Music.
First iPad in 2010 was not take over the tablet world until years later, AP earbuds, Apple Watches, Apple Silicon M1, you get idea.
APM is just the beginning...

 

[Mink]

Here is a new video in youtube where the person is comparing the APM with the sony xm4, bose 700, b&o h9 and the h95. The reviewer is doing excellent job showing the differences in sound so the people can actually hearing this headphones and having better idea of the differences in sound. The comparison with h95 is beginning at 33:35.

Is still obviously different and better when you, like me, having the 2 headphones at the same time for comparing the sound, but this video is probably giving the best option if you having only one of this headphones or not even one. I can hearing more big and clear differences when I doing this comparison between the APM and H95 and I'm using more different music too. Is important realising too that the sound you will hearing in the video will having effect depending on which headphones / earphones you're using for hearing all the audio samples. In a perfect world you must listening with a more neutral headphone / earphone.

I find it odd that he had difficulty to hear much differences between the AirPods Max and BeopPlay H95. They have a very different hue, the BeoPlays sound significantly brighter.
Another thing I noted was that the AirPods Max sound, at least in this video, somewhat grainier in vocals.
The AirPods Maxs have a bit more warmth and body but seem to have less depth in their sound.
The classical string quartet track sounded horrible on both headphones, very thin and artificial, but the BeoPlay let's you hear more of the room acoustics, it is more spacious, not in the sense of soundstage width but in the sense of resolution and airiness. But I am pretty sure both headphones will sound better on my ears than in this video.
Based on this video I cannot make a choice which one is better. Both sounded equally fine and horrible with some tracks. But if this video was the only way to make a choice I think I would go with the H95s. The grain in vocals with the AirPods bother me.