[Ilomaenkimi]

I have APM coming to me but Beoplay H95 is certainly something i think i had to listen.

BUT how it works in Apple ecosystem?

And it is 800euros! Whining please?

 

[angelom]

I find it odd that he had difficulty to hear much differences between the AirPods Max and BeopPlay H95. They have a very different hue, the BeoPlays sound significantly brighter.

Yes, I'm agree about how easy is hearing the difference of the 2 headphones in reality. Maybe is the fact he's using all headphones in wired mode? I don't know. Yes, the h95 is sounding more bright, clearly, but I'm not sure I saying "significantly", clearly audible, yes definitely, but not by a lot. The APM is missing correct information in the treble and mids for me.

Another thing I noted was that the AirPods Max sound, at least in this video, somewhat grainier in vocals.

Maybe you're correct, I don't noticing this because I'm a little frustrated with the samples he's using and how short they are. I saying initially that the video is giving good approximation, but obviously not the real differences.

The AirPods Maxs have a bit more warmth and body but seem to have less depth in their sound.

Yes, I'm agree 100% with this opinion.

The classical string quartet track sounded horrible on both headphones, very thin and artificial, but the BeoPlay let's you hear more of the room acoustics, it is more spacious, not in the sense of soundstage width but in the sense of resolution and airiness. But I am pretty sure both headphones will sound better on my ears than in this video.

Yes, the string quartets sounding very wrong with both. I think they sounding better with the xm4 and nc700 when he doing the comparison.

Based on this video I cannot make a choice which one is better. Both sounded equally fine and horrible with some tracks. But if this video was the only way to make a choice I think I would go with the H95s. The grain in vocals with the AirPods bother me.

Yes, I'm agree, both sounding similar in the video. My point is mainly showing, in this case, that the APM is NOT the best in sound quality like so many reviews and videos saying (but the majority don't hearing the h95 either). You can hearing some of this differences or similarities. Only one of the best videos by one real audiophile is saying h95 is better, but quickly someone here saying the person is 'mids-head', etc, so his opinion isn't valid.

I saying before, for me the h95 is clearly better in sq and other aspects. Better having that video than the exaggerations I reading/hearing very often, even when the h95 isn't being a good representation of the real sound in that video.

I have APM coming to me but Beoplay H95 is certainly something i think i had to listen.

BUT how it works in Apple ecosystem?

And it is 800euros! Whining please?

I have iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro. H95 is completely fine.

 

[bbs008]

So... these sound pretty amazing connected to an apogee groove amp/dac

 

[Mink]

Yes, I'm agree about how easy is hearing the difference of the 2 headphones in reality. Maybe is the fact he's using all headphones in wired mode? I don't know. Yes, the h95 is sounding more bright, clearly, but I'm not sure I saying "significantly", clearly audible, yes definitely, but not by a lot. The APM is missing correct information in the treble and mids for me.



Maybe you're correct, I don't noticing this because I'm a little frustrated with the samples he's using and how short they are. I saying initially that the video is giving good approximation, but obviously not the real differences.



Yes, I'm agree 100% with this opinion.



Yes, the string quartets sounding very wrong with both. I think they sounding better with the xm4 and nc700 the he doing the comparison.



Yes, I'm agree, both sounding similar in the video. My point is mainly showing, in this case, that the APM is NOT the best in sound quality, at least with this video that is showing that the best of any reviews or videos, you can hearing some of this differences or similarities.

I saying before, for me the h95 is clearly better in sq and other aspects. Better having that video than the exaggerations I reading/hearing very often, even when the h95 isn't being a good representation of the real sound in that video.



I have iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro. H95 is completely fine.

Based on the samples in that video I think the AirPods Max sound clearly better than the Sony and the Bose, the Bose sounds the worst in my opinion, again in that video. But I think the BeoPlay H9s sound really good, in comparison with the AirPods I prefer the H9s.

 

[SilverEars]

I had the same first impression. I also felt disappointed when I first heard that elevated sub bass combined with the lowered 1.5 kHz to 4 kHz range. I could only think about how much I missed that range in music.

If you have something at a similar price point or cheaper, perhaps it would be interesting to try a list of tracks, alternating between the two as I have, and see if you can notice the strengths/weaknesses of each. For me, as seen in my log, the APM kept outshining the others simply because it had strengths in fidelity I perceived compared to the other two.

Ok, I compared XM3 to the APM, and I do see that APM is a sound improvement over the XM3 in everyway. My initial impression of APM was when my ears was used to my HE6. lol. So, it's no brainer APM will not sound well separated and detailed. And imaging and sound stage not on the same level. This is sometimes the caveats to headphone analysis.

I should have compared to XM3 earlier before speaking so soon. APM is better than XM3 in everyway. The bass is much better and better controlled. Sony need to tighten that bass, as it's warming up the response to much. So, APM seems to be the best in it's class like everybody are saying. Soundstage and clarity is much better than the XM3.

Even if people say it's better than Sony or Bose ANC phones, please consider that it's not that great where it's up to the level wired audiophile headphones. I wish it was comparable to HD800S technicalities, but it just can't and it isn't. If one enjoys this type of sound, then ok, but technicalities are not up there.

Now I'm starting to think that APM is worth it due to being best in it's class. It's not large difference or it's audiophile level SQ, but it is best in it's class in terms of sound. I have no experience with B&O so I can't provide any comparison there. Still, I find that it's not as good as wired headphones around it's price range or much cheaper. Maybe not a fair comparison if wired. I don't like that it only has digital input. I don't know why they didn't put in analog input. I don't like the idea of analog to digital and then digital to analog again. I don't want analog to be resampled again.

 

[angelom]

Based on the samples in that video I think the AirPods Max sound clearly better than the Sony and the Bose, the Bose sounds the worst in my opinion, again in that video. But I think the BeoPlay H9s sound really good, in comparison with the AirPods I prefer the H9s.

Yes, we having the exactly same opinion here.

 

[spinspin]

@SilverEars
"Ok, the bass is fairly significant on the XM3 and not really tight and a bit more on the bloated side in comparison, but it seems bass gotten improved with a new firmware. and I generally shelved the bass down."

I have an interesting story about xm4 (might apply to xm3 too but I haven't tried). One time I spent a large portion of the day at a headphone shop in my early phases of testing and learning. I testing a number of headphones in the 200-800 usd range. At first I was planning to only go wired so all the testing was on wired cans because I thought they were better always. It was a fun day and during the end of the day an xm4 became available to test so I said ok I'll give it a shot just to see.

I listen to mostly electronic music and of that music is it more fast pace and the bass drum beat is in every track I test. Most tracks on my testing regime, each had a different bass drum sound. Even though I listen to this music predominantly I am not a fan of heavy bass. So like you I shelve the bass down. I have an inbuilt 10 band graphic equaliser on my phone so as soon as I put on the xm4 I naturally eq'd the bass to my liking. The interesting thing I noticed about the xm4 was that it had good control of the bass drums and that I could hear the detail of the drums very well compared to all the other cans I tested that day. I am talking about the actual bass drum sounds as opposed to a long windy bass line.

So to me, once I EQ'd the bass, I described it as having good control and detail. Like some some tracks the control or preciseness allowed me to hear "oh that's what this bass drum actually sounds like". I don't know if it's just a property of the DSP trickery that does this. But in general if EQ'd to a nice level for me because I noticed it and described it to myself that day as detailed and controlled I am not really inclined to call it "not tight" and bloated.

But correct me if I'm wrong, if the natural curve of the headphones are bass heavy, which is often excessive in consumer tuning, then we naturally feel that the bass is not really tight and bloated. The bass in these types of cans just overwhelm if left unchecked.

@ricksastro

"You can hear a little of the muddiness in the XM4 in the video and I will say in real life, it's much more noticeable. Even my wife who has 0 interest in this stuff noted the difference between them and the APM was like a screen being lifted."

Yeh I am keen to check the APMs when they become available to me. I noticed that when I tried the xm4 I needed to EQ to bass as it just overwhelmed everything. I am thinking some of the screen and muddiness is due to the excessive bass overwhelming the rest of spectrum. Perhaps the degree of this feeling of screen and muddiness is reduced when you EQ that heavy consumer bass curve. I do think also that APM's would be considered more bright and forward than the xm4, at least that is what I heard on that guys video. I think in general a headphone that is brighter naturally has a feeling of less "screen"

@angelom
"Yes, the differences aren't so big and sometimes the xm4 is very close with APM and the nc700 sometimes sounding a little better too. The majority of people often exaggerating that the APM is trashing the xm4 or nc700. I still preferring the APM from my memory of the xm4 and nc700, but the difference isn't so much like many saying.

I think the h9 is sounding sometimes better than APM in the video but the reviewer insisting that APM is better, but he's admitting is only a little. Only with the h95 he's saying the sound is difficult saying which is better. I think only because he knowing the h95 costing $800 and sounding very good. Sometimes unfortunately the music samples aren't giving sufficient aspects in the frequency for more correct differences but in general this 'reviewer' really doing good job. The classical music he's choosing isn't often adequate, is always strings and not even deep cello or double bass for timbre.

I have the xm3 only for anc for travelling, and I don't liking the sound but you can using the eq in the sony app that is making important difference and the sound can improving clearly."

Yes I agree that you need to EQ xm4 to make it shine more. It has that bass heavy consumer curve. I'd also suggest if its possible for you to get a 10 band equaliser app on your phone. When you are travelling and using xm3 this should make your EQing more precise for you likings and make your trip happier

I know he is one of the few YouTube reviewers that give justice to the h95 which you own and appreciate. I knew that him giving your h95 some coverage in the discussion would make you happy. It's also good that you are speaking in this thread so that consumers can know there is another alternative that some people don't know of.

I think the reviewer is doing a good job yes, he is making a long video and using the special equipment so the people on YouTube and us can hear some comparisons. I am a bit sceptical about the reviewers motivations and bias in general though. Like I said he one of the "lots of videos mostly about apple". Im not sure how well he did to describe the differences of the APM and h95. He just said, "oh its really close, can't really say which is better etc etc". I know you say more detail about h95 vs APM. But there is one useful motivation to include the h95 in this review. It allows him to say APM sounds = h95 and he can't tell the difference... but APM costs 550 and h95 costs 800... so mr viewer of my video, which one do you want to choose?

 

[angelom]

I know he is one of the few YouTube reviewers that give justice to the h95 which you own and appreciate. I knew that him giving your h95 some coverage in the discussion would make you happy. It's also good that you are speaking in this thread so that consumers can know there is another alternative that some people don't know of.

He mentioning the h95 in one sentence and only at the end of a very long video that many people don't watching completely. For me is a matter of fairness and completeness in a good review, specially if you're 'audiophile'.

I think the reviewer is doing a good job yes, he is making a long video and using the special equipment so the people on YouTube and us can hear some comparisons. I am a bit sceptical about the reviewers motivations and bias in general though. Like I said he one of the "lots of videos mostly about apple". Im not sure how well he did to describe the differences of the APM and h95. He just said, "oh its really close, can't really say which is better etc etc". I know you say more detail about h95 vs APM. But there is one useful motivation to include the h95 in this review. It allows him to say APM sounds = h95 and he can't tell the difference... but APM costs 550 and h95 costs 800... so mr viewer of my video, which one do you want to choose?

Yes, I can seeing he almost dismissing the h95 as 'the same' as APM. No problem for me because I know about hype of new products and Apple maybe even more. What is interesting for me is that the little times the h95 is mentioning is ALWAYS "but this is $800 and the APM is $550!" when if looking (little) more carefully you seeing that maybe the APM is actually more expensive when comparing properly the complete package of both headphones.

 

[SilverEars]

@SilverEars
"Ok, the bass is fairly significant on the XM3 and not really tight and a bit more on the bloated side in comparison, but it seems bass gotten improved with a new firmware. and I generally shelved the bass down."

I have an interesting story about xm4 (might apply to xm3 too but I haven't tried). One time I spent a large portion of the day at a headphone shop in my early phases of testing and learning. I testing a number of headphones in the 200-800 usd range. At first I was planning to only go wired so all the testing was on wired cans because I thought they were better always. It was a fun day and during the end of the day an xm4 became available to test so I said ok I'll give it a shot just to see.

I listen to mostly electronic music and of that music is it more fast pace and the bass drum beat is in every track I test. Most tracks on my testing regime, each had a different bass drum sound. Even though I listen to this music predominantly I am not a fan of heavy bass. So like you I shelve the bass down. I have an inbuilt 10 band graphic equaliser on my phone so as soon as I put on the xm4 I naturally eq'd the bass to my liking. The interesting thing I noticed about the xm4 was that it had good control of the bass drums and that I could hear the detail of the drums very well compared to all the other cans I tested that day. I am talking about the actual bass drum sounds as opposed to a long windy bass line.

So to me, once I EQ'd the bass, I described it as having good control and detail. Like some some tracks the control or preciseness allowed me to hear "oh that's what this bass drum actually sounds like". I don't know if it's just a property of the DSP trickery that does this. But in general if EQ'd to a nice level for me because I noticed it and described it to myself that day as detailed and controlled I am not really inclined to call it "not tight" and bloated.

But correct me if I'm wrong, if the natural curve of the headphones are bass heavy, which is often excessive in consumer tuning, then we naturally feel that the bass is not really tight and bloated. The bass in these types of cans just overwhelm if left unchecked.

Check the difference in response of XM3 to XM4 on Oratory. This might be the reason why I prefer the XM3. Note the fuller upper-mids with the XM3 (the bass however is totallly wrong). Rting's differences shows the upper-mids level higher with XM4 with less full around 2k.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wx3nvscvt44i4w/Sony WH1000XM4.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4gbxpw6meoze2um/Sony WF-1000XM3 (USound Target).pdf?dl=0

I do notice the biggest difference are bass and spatial imaging of the two headphones (APM and XM3). Resolution and separation is about the same, and usually like that within these class of headphones.

 

[tkddans]

Even if people say it's better than Sony or Bose ANC phones, please consider that it's not that great where it's up to the level wired audiophile headphones. I wish it was comparable to HD800S technicalities, but it just can't and it isn't. If one enjoys this type of sound, then ok, but technicalities are not up there.

Exactly! That’s all I’ve been saying.

 

[tret]

The AirPods Max fit my use case perfectly. Honestly they’re exactly what I was looking for. My end game desktop rig isn’t going anywhere, these won’t replace my Empyreans (or my HD6xx for that matter), but I’ve been looking for a “good enough” wireless over ear headphone for when I’m roaming around the house doing chores or sitting with the kids while they play hot wheels, lego, etc. The ANC comes in handy, transparency mode when I need to be able to hear the kids and noise cancelling for Zoom meetings when I don’t want to hear the kids.

On sound quality, I actually really like how the APM sound. They are nicely detailed, have good soundstage, they’re tuned nicely without overly emphasizing bass or squashing the treble, tonality is great. I’m happy with the sound quality.

Bottom line, I go to my Empyreans whenever I can. For all other times, these are perfect for me.

Note: I’ve tried Sony XM3/4, Momentum 3, B&O h95. I find that with feature set, convenience and SQ considered as a complete package the APM is the best product available in this category.

 

[Bompah]

So I thought I'd give my two pence worth after having the APM for half a day.


Design & comfort:
Very well built and feel very premium, even the silicon on the headband feels of good quality. The metal housing feels a bit more premium than that of the B&O H95, I think Apple probably have a better anodising process.

For wireless headphones they are heavy, it is somewhat noticeable. The weight sit well on the head and as with all Apple products is balanced really weel, with a good centre of gravity. But they are heavier than the average headphone and you can feel it.

The headband is comfortable to me, and I have a top of the head "hotspot" on most headphones. The earcups are also very comfortable (not quite B&O lambskin level though), with plenty of space for my medium sized ears and are fairly breathable for the skin, so not too sweaty.

The ANC pressure is real, it isn't QC35 bad, but it is there and slightly noticeable. For those who do care, the ANC seems significantly better than the B&O H95 but they are the only over ear comparison I can do, I don’t then to buy a lot of ANC headphones since they normally sound like garbage (long-time IEM user).

Lightning connector, why Apple, why? I asked the same about the iPhone 12 line-up, perfect time to change to USB-C and leave that port behind. Thankfully I have one lightning connector “head” over for my magnetic charging cables I use on my desk to charge keyboards etc. so that’ll come in handy if I keep these, but it should have been USB-C.

The case, yeah, no.


Sound:
Definitely a lot of sub-bass for the class, decent rumble especially with films, there is a fair amount of detail, with some sparkle in the treble. I heard a bit of a sibilant edge on some material but when I test it with my sibilance torture test (Adele, Someone like you, live from the Royal Albert Hall) and the APMs keep it controlled fairly well. There is a harder edge to the treble, with cymbals sounding slightly artificial (although not as bad as on the B&O H95 which have compression noise as well).

Testing the coherence, they do seem to lose details when they have a lot of overlapping sounds, focusing on singular strands of the music (e.g. losing details from the string instrument in favour of Alison Krauss' voice in Living Prayer), and they are clearly lacking some speed and upper bass impact when playing faster metal (like Stålfågel by Soilwork).

The biggest issue seems to be (as many have said) in the mid-range. The music seems to lack body in favour of the rumble and sparkle; in fact with some tracks they sound very similar to a pair of Homepods (this is not a compliment).

Finally, soundstage is reasonably wide, but nothing to write home about and they are no imaging masters; they definitely seem to belong to the three blob crew.


Early thoughts:
I will give them another week before I pass judgement properly, and will A/B them with my B&O H95 as I'll only ever keep one pair of ANC over ears. But so far they are ok, they have some songs and some content like films and action scenes which they do well with, while for some tracks and music they sound a bit hollow. I won't yet comment too much how they compare to the H95 socially as I very rarely use my H95 at the moment (don't travel much for some reason); but the one thing they definitely do better is the treble, as they lack the compression artifacts on cymbals (even though they still sound artificial).

Now that all sounds terribly negative, but overall they are a good pair of Bluetooth headphones and have a good chance of replacing my H95s just by the very nature of them being an Apple product (no extra apps needed). They don't compete with a decent set of wired cans (in my view) but they have a fairly enjoyable sound-signature, they can make some stuff sound really fun (Invincible by Tool is a thunder-fest) and they block external noise fairly well.

 

[amoeba1126]

For people comparing these to wired headphones of "similar" pricing, please also remember that there are almost always hidden costs associated with using wired alternatives. I am not talking about the convenience of wireless or ANC, but the additional components to make it work. Let's take an HD650 for example. I would need a lightning to 3.5mm adapter at minimum if we were talking about an iPhone or the auxiliary port of say a laptop which, given the demands of the HD650, is less than ideal. Most people with a HD650 be using it with a DAC and amp in the mix, usually adds about $200-300 more each and and with significant costs to either portability or battery life in the same breath. This isn't even considering that the HD650 is open and usually that means you can't use it in an office environment unless you had your own office.

At the end of the day, you aren't paying $550 or however much it costs for a pair of APM. You are paying that much for a pair of closed back headphones, DAC, amp (maybe?), wireless connectivity for 20 hours or so per pop, and ANC. All this in a singular package that everyone seems to feel significantly outclasses the offerings from Sony and Bose.

For the record, I don't own a pair as I have no uses case for them. Between my TH-X00+m9xx, Penrose, and Airpods Pro, there is so remaining purpose for them. Sure I could dump my APP, but I got them for their extreme portability. I don't use them for critical listening or for gaming, but for on-the-go and video conferencing usage. For those purposes, they are perfect.

 

[tret]

The AirPods Max fit my use case perfectly. Honestly they’re exactly what I was looking for. My end game desktop rig isn’t going anywhere, these won’t replace my Empyreans (or my HD6xx for that matter), but I’ve been looking for a “good enough” wireless over ear headphone for when I’m roaming around the house doing chores or sitting with the kids while they play hot wheels, lego, etc. The ANC comes in handy, transparency mode when I need to be able to hear the kids and noise cancelling for Zoom meetings when I don’t want to hear the kids.

On sound quality, I actually really like how the APM sound. They are nicely detailed, have good soundstage, they’re tuned nicely without overly emphasizing bass or squashing the treble, tonality is great. I’m happy with the sound quality.

Bottom line, I go to my Empyreans whenever I can. For all other times, these are perfect for me.

Note: I’ve tried Sony XM3/4, Momentum 3, B&O h95. I find that with feature set, convenience and SQ considered as a complete package the APM is the best product available in this category.

I forgot to mention mids. I have seen a fair amount of criticism of the APM’s mids, I don’t entirely get it. Granted, I’m not a professional reviewer, I’m 40ish and have tinnitus so I’m far from having “golden ears” but with my daily drivers (Empyrean & HD6xx) having arguably some of the best mids in the hobby, I’m not finding myself with a glaring complaint in this area.

 

[Bompah]

I forgot to mention mids. I have seen a fair amount of criticism of the APM’s mids, I don’t entirely get it. Granted, I’m not a professional reviewer, I’m 40ish and have tinnitus so I’m far from having “golden ears” but with my daily drivers (Empyrean & HD6xx) having arguably some of the best mids in the hobby, I’m not finding myself with a glaring complaint in this area.

I think the issue might be one of V shaped tuning meeting a V shaped mix. So for me the problem doesn't really present itself if I listen to music which is fairly mid-dominant (say, Alice in Chains' album Jar of Flies) or music which have been mixed well (such as Tool's Fear Inoculum, artifacts not withstanding), you just hear that the bass and treble takes up a bit more "space" compared to when you listen with a better headphone (e.g. Empys). But in some music, especially where there is a lot going on and the mix has already turned the bass and treble up to 11 for effect (Soilwork's Stålfågel is a good example), the music just feels empty or hollow. I haven't had a much of a chance to work my way through my collection of test-tracks but from what I can hear so far they seem to be a bit recessed in the mids (similar to the Klipsch HP3).