[plakat]

The AirPods Max only support the SBC and AAC codecs. There are some Android phones that support an AAC codec. How good these codecs are are kind of unknown. Also note that if you’re source material isn’t AAC it’ll need to go through a lossy conversion. If you have lossless audio this conversion won’t be an issue. But if you’re listening to 320 MPG on Spotify it might be. It’s probably not super noticeable though.

You will most likely have to go through conversion anyway because according to a programmer using those APIs the sound APIs take decompressed WAV format. AAC files are not sent as is, but the recoding should not give much trouble if any.

More problematic seems to be that many AAC implementations on Android are not that good (or simply using too much CPU resources, producing stuttering due to overload, buffer underrun). As unfair as that is, Apple obviously did not have those sources in mind unfortunately.

@pnoble some very good points, especially your calculation of R&D. Of course there's the fact that companies like Sennheiser of Beyerdynamic are doing this for ages and may have to spend less on developing a new model due to accumulated knowledge, but still... And yes, I'm also sure Apple is mostly interested in that computational aspect, with firmware updates coming (like with spatial audio on the APP). I still think they were trying hard to get the driver correct nevertheless, not simply correcting it in software -- which of course costs a ton. But I think there are interesting things to come... and I don't think Apple will kill off High End: they have other target markets and priorities.

 

[Fox11]

A kind of cute review. I'm not sure I've seen anyone else test it live with a phone call. I guess you might call this a normal customer?

Thanks for sharing this! Seeing her face light up as she hears the music playing through these for the first time- I think we've all had that moment when we've listened to something better than what we had before, and we're just blown away and can't help but gape and grin at what we're hearing. Ultimately, it's about enjoying the music!

 

[pnoble]

@pnoble some very good points, especially your calculation of R&D. Of course there's the fact that companies like Sennheiser of Beyerdynamic are doing this for ages and may have to spend less on developing a new model due to accumulated knowledge, but still... And yes, I'm also sure Apple is mostly interested in that computational aspect, with firmware updates coming (like with spatial audio on the APP). I still think they were trying hard to get the driver correct nevertheless, not simply correcting it in software -- which of course costs a ton. But I think there are interesting things to come... and I don't think Apple will kill off High End: they have other target markets and priorities.

I agree, Plakat. I don't think for a moment that Apple is concerned with the extreme enthusiast market, but for both high-end audio and photography and dare I say increasingly for watches, even cars, and potentially other product categories, the inevitable encroachment of the computational, at scale, will have an effect on enthusiast markets.

Historically, those who could afford excellence could always acquire it by paying much more to bespoke manufacturers. The game is changing. Arguably quite democratically! Driven even by serious enthusiasts among the staff of Apple, Tesla and others.

 

[tkddans]

Bose Quiet Comfort 35 Series I
vs APM
vs wired ATH-M50x

Here we go again. This time with a comparison that doesn't offend the critics (as much?)!
- The Bose QC Series I originally retailed at around $350. These are borrowed, I do not own them.
- The APM retails at about $550.
- The wired ATH-M50x retailed at around $150, at time of purchase (I may be mistaken at this point, but it's close to that). I'm using this wired pair because I already have it and it should be close enough in quality to the wireless version to be worth testing here as a wireless competitor.

Setup for QC 35 Series I:
Source, connection, and settings: Bluetooth connection to MacBook Pro. Apple Music. ANC turned on.
Setup for APM:
Source, connection, and settings: Bluetooth connection to iPhone 12 Pro Max. Apple Music. (would have connected to MacBook Pro as well, but for ease of switching, kept to separate device here). ANC turned on.
Setup for wired ATH-M50x:
Source and connection: Wired to same MacBook Pro. Apple Music. No ANC available.


Track 1 - Bauklotze
Album: Attack on Titan (Original Soundtrack)
Artist: Hiroyuki Sawano
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Female vocals, with instruments ranging from electric guitar, to drums, to strings.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Immediately get a fun punch in the drums.
- Vocals are loud, clear, fun, but maybe a tad tiresome on the female vocal high notes. But altogether not too bad vocally, when not sung too high.
- Difficult to pick up on instruments until loud volumes; but then the vocals become way too loud by comparison. The balance in volume of these things aren't very comfortable at loud total volume from music player.
- As the song goes on, the vocals really do become too uncomfortable to maintain high volume. Lowering a notch, the instruments immediately sound too low to enjoy as well as they were at higher volume.
- Have to switch back to the APM for reference to see what may be different, or missing from one to the other.
- After going back from the APM, immediately the brighter appearance around the upper mid region become apparent. But damn those vocals are too sharp! Pleasing pop on initial impression, with nice apparent clarity of strings at high volumes (again, if you can handle the piercing vocals)
- As noted in the back and forth notes under the APM section below, there's a lack of authenticity to the Bose. Though brighter in a pleasing way, it altogether sounds like there's something in the way of hearing the real thing - whether it's an overly bright and artificial vocal, odd sounding percussive instrument, or more distant strings.
- While bass is present, it isn't as luscious, nor as easily produced here. It doesn't seem to extend as far down as the APM and, while it is on first impression quick in response, it doesn't impart enough oomph to the sound in a way that helps meld the music together in an emotional way like the APM do.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Unrelated to sound, but immediately feels nicer, cozier, resting on the head. from the almost absent feel of the headrest to the comfortable pressure of a worn in (or used to) ear cups
- Sound is "cleaner"
- The sub bass is present in a way that it isn't on the Bose. Maybe too much if you like the brighter touch of the Bose. However, I'm finding myself preferring it being there more than not. Definitely a matter of taste here. I could see someone preferring the Bose on this track for the brightness and lack of the high bass found on the APM.
- That being said, the relaxing quality of the APM at higher volumes, with the vocals being far more tolerable, make it overall more enjoyable for me.
- I do seem to prefer the percussion's expression here over the Bose.
- Going back and forth with the Bose, I notice immediately how much more authentic to life the track sounds on the APM. The Bose almost appears artificial by comparison, particularly with percussion, wooden clapping I'm hearing, the strings, and the female's vocals.
- When all the instruments play alongside the vocals, the composition altogether has more...heart? This is a dumb word. I'm sorry. But I feel the song more with the APM. Where the vocals SING on the APM, they demand a bright, sibilant, artificial attention on the Bose.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Immediately, I notice a white noise in the background lifted up that wasn't as much present in either the Bose or APM. This makes the track appear dirtied. It isn't as relaxing to listen to with this there
- Vocals are far more tolerable than the Bose, but lack the roundedness that gives the APM more authenticity. Still, vocals are not that bad here to my ears. She sounds real enough to be enjoyable. Better than Bose, not as enjoyable and real as the APM.
- Softer wooden clapping in the background is clearer and more enjoyable than the Bose. Going back to the APM, they're similar in clarity, maybe in some sense more clear, but somehow located outside the music to me? As if...they're located outside the soundstage from the rest of the musical ensemble. This could make it appear to have a wider soundstage around the ears. However, the APM brings it closer to the stage, if that makes sense - and I enjoy how the APM does it more. With the APM these claps, alongside the bass tying things together once again, the inclusion of the wooden claps into the track feel more authentic, more enjoyable and present. The APM feels better here.
- The drums hit clear, but distant and without lower bass supporting it. Altogether, the APM does better with percussion from the kick drum to the smaller drums in giving a more believable playback to the real thing? I'm not a musician, but that's the impression I get as a listener.
- Strings seem the nicest on this so far, at first anyway. When you immediately switch from the APM to these m50x's, you feel like you were missing something in the APM. The m50x have a bright character which makes it feel as if the music is more open. However, this pleasure quickly goes away when the instruments sound too recessed, too far away from one another, or mushed up in places when they play all at once...Then the vocals pierce your ears and you hear the white noise in quiet moments.
- Overall, I can see how these are used as references at times for their neutrality, but the authenticity, the joy, the thump, and relaxation of the APM are gone - replaced by piercing, overly bright moments, and a general feeling of instruments existing but not in harmony. These are very subjective and wishy washy ways of explaining my impressions, but there it is.


Track 2 - Bass & Drum Intro
Album: Live
Artist: Nils Lofgren Band
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Guitar and drums

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Oh no. No no no. The cheering carries a strange high pitch with it that I'm just not digging. The brightness of these headphones are not welcome with the applause. Sibiliance, and just artificial sounding.
- White noise is back again. Not nice.
- Plucking is clear enough, but need to check with the other two pairs to see what I'm missing that I would like to hear. I'm not immediately taken by the sound signature here.
- I'm getting the sense of this song yet again feeling somewhat distant from a real life immersion. I hear the music clearly enough, and there's punchiness in places, but I'm still feeling put off by the white noise lifted up by the tuning and the artificialness of it somehow.
- Drums are a bit bright but with a good punch. Maybe missing lower bass tones though.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Like water in a desert, my thirst for authenticity is quenched. The cheers of the audience, the clapping, the plucking of the strings, the drumming, cowbell, all of it...It suddenly feels much more real, as if I'm much closer now to hearing the real reproduction of a show - instruments plugged into their stage amps.
- Rich bass presence that brings real life to the track.
- Loving those guitar strings. Delightful on this track with the APM compared to anything compared thus far.
- White noise plays back on every pair of headphones it seems, but they aren't somehow as distracting on the mellowed APM.
- Where's my drink waiter? I want to sip on something as I listen to this live performance.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Cheering and applause sound more realistic than the Bose, but lack the immersive presence I get from the APM
- Strings are ok. No delight though. The bass that brings live reality to the APM are gone here. Altogether I would pick these over the Bose for live perforamances of acoustics/drums if this track represents well enough that genre. But, I would pick the APM over both. The APM simply bring the joy of a live performance to life in a way neither of these other two headphones have.


Track 3 - Killing Time
Album: Legend of the Black Shawarma
Artist: Infected Mushroom
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Electronic. Wide range of frequencies. Male vocals.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- I'm starting to really want to stop listening to these.
- These are really a chore. Everything I've said before about these stand again here. Nothing special to note. Nothing that sounds good that I haven't already noted. All the bad baggage is here as it was before.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Clarity. The male vocal's breathy affect is audible in a pleasing way.
- When the thumps come in, they come in with ease, clarity...they're just fun. The lower frequency tones present in the vocals, and all instrumentation, work for this track very well.
- Cohesion. Thats the APM compared to the Bose and m50x's. The APM bring the sounds of the track together in a cohesive way. Yes, it lacks the vary spacious separation of something like the 800's, but where the music blends together, they blend with a relaxed heart to the music. It's the bass perhaps, but it works very well.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Clarity, yes...and a more neutral take on the track. Perhaps this is better for mixing? Perhaps the neutrality is sought after for some. But I'll keep it simple here...the APM are more enjoyable. Nothing is beating the cohesion a rich undertone of bass brings to every vocal and instrument. It isn't just a bass instrument that bass benefits, it's many instruments and vocals where it benefits the APM.
- Once again, the instruments somehow sound like they're all over the place. I can't locate them in space around my head. They're behind one another, here and there, but don't appear authentic. Yes I can hear details, yes it's a neutral balance compared to the APM, and I prefer these so far over the Bose, but the stage feels competitive, messy, and tiring at times to listen through.

Track 4 - The Xith Commandment
Album: Feels So Good
Artist: Chuck Mangione
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Guitar, drums, bongos, wind instrument. Jazz. Great recording with great instrument separation possible and well mastered balance dynamics between them. Stereo channels are utilized to shift sound from one ear to another at times.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- This track "feels so good" no matter what you wear on your head. It's one of those songs you can enjoy almost no matter what. The soft horn, the gentle dance of percussions and other instruments in this jazzy song...feel so good. That being said...
- The Bose do not capture the high ceiling of joy this track can bring.
- The strings pluck in some distant manner. Even at max volume, they don't present to you in a way that you feel as if someone is there. Probably a lack of bass tones here.
- I feel like I'm listening to an altered recording of the real thing. The performance hides behind a white noise veil.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- I almost forgot the wind instruments, with the faintest breath of the musicians, existed. Playing the track reminded me of them. There's a trait about some headphones that, when the tuning is right for that song or genre, you just find yourself appreciating an instrument, the soft sounds of people being recorded, or the vocals. The APM give me that je ne sais quoi.
- Tune in to 2:35 and wait for that drum to kick in. Thump thump thump...beautiful! Those moments of delight come through only so many headphones for me. The APM have it, alongside the relaxed accompaniment of other instruments.
- The softer patter of symbols, escalating into what could be sibilant highs with other headphones, come off as tolerable and enjoyable as headphones can get here.
- Tune in to 3:15, a quieter moment, and see how it develops into something louder and more jarring at 3:30. This can be sibilant or far too harsh on the punchy mids on other drivers, but the APM make it something enjoyable. The APM play dynamic ranges of volumes and instrument intensity quite well where the comparisons here may instead be either sibilant or far too lifeless and neutral.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Not BAD, but not great either. Tune in to 3:15 through 3:30 and you can see how, although the instruments seem neutral and clear, they are tiring or too punchy at their highs. Still, not bad. It's ok enough that you can enjoy it if for nothing else but the cleaner playback compared to something like the Bose. But why do this to yourself? Why? The APM are effortless, luscious, and give a jazzy feel unlike what you get here with the clinical m50x's.
- I can see how someone could buy the m50x's for referencing, at an affordable price, to do their job. No need to splurge if you have to buy many for a workplace or staff, I can imagine. But as a personal investment to what you want to listen to as a choice for your own leisurely time, the APM are so far a clear winner in many objective and all subjective regards - to me, anyway.


Track 5 - Piano Concerto No. 1 in F-Sharp Minor, Op. 1: 3. Allegro vivace
Album: Rachmaninov: Piano Nos. 1 & 2
Artist: Krystian Zimmerman, Boston Symphony Orchestra & Seiji Ozawa
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Classical. Full orchestral performance. Piano, wind, strings. Dynamic range of volume. Variety of moments where different portions of the orchestra shines.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Get off my ears, you distant, unclear, piano-is-muddied, excuse for over ears.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Listen to the opening alone to hear a difference. The clear and present BOOM of the winds. There is nothing between you and the music here, compared to the Bose.
- Oh my...the piano comes in with such clarity. Love it.
- And in come the strings at 25 seconds, only for a moment to tease, then leave. Come back at 36 seconds..leave again...Then...
- Tune in to 0:55. At around 57/58, some winds come in, then the strings come once more back in at 1:05 to change the pace.
- For the Bose, these things don't call to me. On the APM, they have a chance to. Classical is much much better here than on the Bose. For greater detail on the APM here, please feel free to look back at a prior comparison I've made in the thread.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Ok, as usual, better than the Bose. Closer to the APM in clarity. I can tell the instruments apart better, the notes of the piano.
- Tuning in to one of my favorite moments at 0:55 through 1:05, it's not bad!
- I do not get the altogether richer, more rounded, "realer" sense of the music though as I do with the APM. There are moments where I could think too that the instruments were perhaps distorted? Something doesn't seem as clean, generally, as with the playback of the APM.
- On a budget, you could get away with listening to classical with these, but with far less fun and more distance between you and the orchestra. There's just something about the APM that keeps making me feel like I'm enjoying something closer to life.


Track 6 - One Step
Album: This is the Warning
Artist: Dead Letter Circus
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Rock. Dynamic range of soft to soaring male vocals. Intense drumming and guitar. Contrasting moments of calm to intense.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- The start of the track is noticeably distorted or inaccurate to the recording as I've heard it on other headphones/speakers.
- The higher frequencies of higher guitar notes do NOT get along with the drums.
The vocals feels somehow recessed, as almost everything does when they compete. Nothing stands up well unless you blast the volume and then hate yourself for doing it when one of the instruments or vocals inevitably kills your ears.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- My ears can relax now.
- Vocals can come out more clearly now, despite having so much rock noise to compete with.
- APM are a great choice for hard rock with soaring vocals. Drums play nicely with the guitar, which place nicely with the vocals. They're all there, and rock does naturally muddy the musical waters at times, but insofar as that is part of the spirit of rock music at times, the APM play it well and enjoyable without any sibilance or tiring punches.
- Exciting rock that's mellowed out enough, without losing clarity, to enjoy greatly

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Though not as well rounded and cohesive with the lower frequencies underlying the music, the m50x's are far better already than the Bose.
- Where they lack the mellowed out joy of the APM, the m50x does bring brightness in a way that can be nice to hear every now and again. Then again, it's bright without too much else to redeem it. It's a bit too clinical for me and misses the soul of the music - unhelped by how artificial these begin to sound.


Track 7 - Dark Horse
Album: PRISM (Deluxe Version)
Artist: Katy Perry
File info: Apple Digital Master (the only one on this list!) Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Pop. Female vocals. Mainstream commercial mastering, may be a good reference.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Is this..actually ok sounding? The first notes are striking, those loud digital noises. What do you even call those... They're clear enough I guess. But these aren't real instruments, so it's hard to say what here sounds "authentic" or accurate to life.
- I'm done...these have the same issues as always. The only difference here is that the track is so filled with artificial sounds that you could enjoy them in a strange sort of way since there's no real reference unless you ask the mixers what they intended.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- No contest. Can I stop now? What's to say I haven't already?
- Bass fills the space around the ears, and its in such a delightful way for something mastered for bass like this. Bass is actually enjoyable here, well...as enjoyable as mainstream mixed bass tracks can be anyway! Very subjective if you like it or not, but this bass is clear, in no way muddy. Good quality bass.
- Female vocals are much more pleasing compared to Bose.
- The claps in the background are clear, present, and fun.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Immediately I notice the sub bass just isn't as present or noticeable at all. It doesn't fill the space around the ears whatsoever compared to the APM.
- The higher bass frequency that is present, is just ok. Again, clinically neutral, but not even in a realistic way. In real life, if you pump bass in a large speaker driver on the dance floor, in a concert, etc...you'll expect to FEEL it prominently. Where the APM emulate that, the M50x's simply don't. In that sense, even for an all-digital track like this, it sounds less than authentic to how it was perhaps intended to be heard.
- The above note applies to vocals, etc. I'm done.


Conclusion
Bose QC 35 Series I
Don't buy these. Please. I have to test the QC 35 ii, to be absolutely sure of not recommending the updated version, but if it's anything like the series 1 in signature, don't do this to yourself. Yes they're $200 - $300 cheaper than the APM currently, but don't do it to yourself. You may use your next headphones for years to come! #treatyourself #selfcare
Look elsewhere.

AirPods Max
As with prior comparisons and detailed reviews of my experience with them, I would continue to say they hold strong as a choice for what sits around your ears. These are the clear winner for my personal taste for this comparison. As noted before, these bring joy and life to the music where others may not. Between the very high quality sub bass presence that often doesn't even perceptively exist on other headphones, and the detail and cohesion of the variety of sounds on any track, the APM are just a wonderful listening experience. For a wireless, closed back, ANC/transparency, high quality build materials and durability...these are fantastic.

Pay the $550, try these out, and return them if you don't like missing those extra dollars from your wallet for what you get out of these. Return policies exist for a reason! if you don't enjoy these as much as me, that's fine. If you enjoy your Bose, m50's, or whatever else, or your situation is different...fine! We are all different. But try them. They are very much worth choosing when you listen to music. Whether they are "worth" your money is up to you.

But would you really save a couple hundred dollars for a headphones you could use for 5+ years easily? We buy new phones every year to three years (most of us) for a lot more money! Come on! Have some damn self respect.

Woo..Ok I'm getting a bit heated here. Let's move on.

ATH-M50x
They're ok if you need something for a budget. If you really can't pay a few hundred more for the APM for any reason, and finances are very personal and varied among us indeed, then I totally understand if you want to go for the m50x instead. If you can't reasonably afford the APM in your budget, then you shouldn't buy them despite them being better. But they are better to my ears.

Hey, maybe you think the neutrality suits your job better if you edit sound in some way. Or maybe you need to buy multiple headphones for staff in your job. These are great for cheap options for reference headphones that may satisfy some use cases. However, if you ignore price and workplace budgeting situations, if you are trying to purchase these for yourself and want the better sounding (perhaps both objectively and subjectively), you are far better off with the APM.


Final thoughts
Trying to compare the APM to these other two headphones is ridiculous. But I did it anyway. I'm not saying it's ridiculous for the price, I'm saying it's just ridiculous when you actually try listening to these side by side. There is no track, not one situation, where I enjoy the Bose or M50x over the APM.

The APM is entirely a different tier of quality, for referencing or for enjoyment, IMO.

EDIT:: I will be comparing the APM to the AKG K361, K371, and the Drop Panda next. Same test - I will compare them track for track to the APM and see how they differ. Strengths, weaknesses, etc.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Bose Quiet Comfort 35 Series I
vs APM
vs wired ATH-M50x

Here we go again. This time with a comparison that doesn't offend the critics (as much?)!
- The Bose QC Series I originally retailed at around $350. These are borrowed, I do not own them.
- The APM retails at about $550.
- The wired ATH-M50x retailed at around $150, at time of purchase (I may be mistaken at this point, but it's close to that). I'm using this wired pair because I already have it and it should be close enough in quality to the wireless version to be worth testing here as a wireless competitor.

Setup for QC 35 Series I:
Source, connection, and settings: Bluetooth connection to MacBook Pro. Apple Music. ANC turned on.
Setup for APM:
Source, connection, and settings: Bluetooth connection to iPhone 12 Pro Max. Apple Music. (would have connected to MacBook Pro, but for easy of switching, kept to separate device here). ANC turned on.
Setup for wired ATH-M50x:
Source and connection: Wired to same MacBook Pro. Apple Music. No ANC available.


Track 1 - Bauklotze
Album: Attack on Titan (Original Soundtrack)
Artist: Hiroyuki Sawano
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Female vocals, with instruments ranging from electric guitar, to drums, to strings.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Immediately get a fun punch in the drums.
- Vocals are loud, clear, fun, but maybe a tad tiresome on the female vocal high notes. But altogether not too bad vocally, when not sung too high.
- Difficult to pick up on instruments until loud volumes; but then the vocals become way too loud by comparison. The balance in volume of these things aren't very comfortable at loud total volume from music player.
- As the song goes on, the vocals really do become too uncomfortable to maintain high volume. Lowering a notch, the instruments immediately sound too low to enjoy as well as they were at higher volume.
- Have to switch back to the APM for reference to see what may be different, or missing from one to the other.
- After going back from the APM, immediately the brighter appearance around the upper mid region become apparent. But damn those vocals are too sharp! Pleasing pop on initial impression, with nice apparent clarity of strings at high volumes (again, if you can handle the piercing vocals)
- As noted in the back and forth notes under the APM section below, there's a lack of authenticity to the Bose. Though brighter in a pleasing way, it altogether sounds like there's something in the way of hearing the real thing - whether it's an overly bright and artificial vocal, odd sounding percussive instrument, or more distant strings.
- While bass is present, it isn't as luscious, nor as easily produced here. It doesn't seem to extend as far down as the APM and, while it is on first impression quick in response, it doesn't impart enough oomph to the sound in a way that helps meld the music together in an emotional way like the APM do.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Unrelated to sound, but immediately feels nicer, cozier, resting on the head. from the almost absent feel of the headrest to the comfortable pressure of a worn in (or used to) ear cups
- Sound is "cleaner"
- The sub bass is present in a way that it isn't on the Bose. Maybe too much if you like the brighter touch of the Bose. However, I'm finding myself preferring it being there more than not. Definitely a matter of taste here. I could see someone preferring the Bose on this track for the brightness and lack of the high bass found on the APM.
- That being said, the relaxing quality of the APM at higher volumes, with the vocals being far more tolerable, make it overall more enjoyable for me.
- I do seem to prefer the percussion's expression here over the Bose.
- Going back and forth with the Bose, I notice immediately how much more authentic to life the track sounds on the APM. The Bose almost appears artificial by comparison, particularly with percussion, wooden clapping I'm hearing, the strings, and the female's vocals.
- When all the instruments play alongside the vocals, the composition altogether has more...heart? This is a dumb word. I'm sorry. But I feel the song more with the APM. Where the vocals SING on the APM, they demand a bright, sibilant, artificial attention on the Bose.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Immediately, I notice a white noise in the background lifted up that wasn't as much present in either the Bose or APM. This makes the track appear dirtied. It isn't as relaxing to listen to with this there
- Vocals are far more tolerable than the Bose, but lack the roundedness that gives the APM more authenticity. Still, vocals are not that bad here to my ears. She sounds real enough to be enjoyable. Better than Bose, not as enjoyable and real as the APM.
- Softer wooden clapping in the background is clearer and more enjoyable than the Bose. Going back to the APM, they're similar in clarity, maybe in some sense more clear, but somehow located outside the music to me? As if...they're located outside the soundstage from the rest of the musical ensemble. This could make it appear to have a wider soundstage around the ears. However, the APM brings it closer to the stage, if that makes sense - and I enjoy how the APM does it more. With the APM these claps, alongside the bass tying things together once again, the inclusion of the wooden claps into the track feel more authentic, more enjoyable and present. The APM feels better here.
- The drums hit clear, but distant and without lower bass supporting it. Altogether, the APM does better with percussion from the kick drum to the smaller drums in giving a more believable playback to the real thing? I'm not a musician, but that's the impression I get as a listener.
- Strings seem the nicest on this so far, at first anyway. When you immediately switch from the APM to these m50x's, you feel like you were missing something in the APM. The m50x have a bright character which makes it feel as if the music is more open. However, this pleasure quickly goes away when the instruments sound too recessed, too far away from one another, or mushed up in places when they play all at once...Then the vocals pierce your ears and you hear the white noise in quiet moments.
- Overall, I can see how these are used as references at times for their neutrality, but the authenticity, the joy, the thump, and relaxation of the APM are gone - replaced by piercing, overly bright moments, and a general feeling of instruments existing but not in harmony. These are very subjective and wishy washy ways of explaining my impressions, but there it is.


Track 2 - Bass & Drum Intro
Album: Live
Artist: Nils Lofgren Band
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Guitar and drums

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Oh no. No no no. The cheering carries a strange high pitch with it that I'm just not digging. The brightness of these headphones are not welcome with the applause. Sibiliance, and just artificial sounding.
- White noise is back again. Not nice.
- Plucking is clear enough, but need to check with the other two pairs to see what I'm missing that I would like to hear. I'm not immediately taken by the sound signature here.
- I'm getting the sense of this song yet again feeling somewhat distant from a real life immersion. I hear the music clearly enough, and there's punchiness in places, but I'm still feeling put off by the white noise lifted up by the tuning and the artificialness of it somehow.
- Drums are a bit bright but with a good punch. Maybe missing lower bass tones though.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Like water in a desert, my thirst for authenticity is quenched. The cheers of the audience, the clapping, the plucking of the strings, the drumming, cowbell, all of it...It suddenly feels much more real, as if I'm much closer now to hearing the real reproduction of a show - instruments plugged into their stage amps.
- Rich bass presence that brings real life to the track.
- Loving those guitar strings. Delightful on this track with the APM compared to anything compared thus far.
- White noise plays back on every pair of headphones it seems, but they aren't somehow as distracting on the mellowed APM.
- Where's my drink waiter? I want to sip on something as I listen to this live performance.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Cheering and applause sound more realistic than the Bose, but lack the immersive presence I get from the APM
- Strings are ok. No delight though. The bass that brings live reality to the APM are gone here. Altogether I would pick these over the Bose for live perforamances of acoustics/drums if this track represents well enough that genre. But, I would pick the APM over both. The APM simply bring the joy of a live performance to life in away neither of these other two headphones have.


Track 3 - Killing Time
Album: Legend of the Black Shawarma
Artist: Infected Mushroom
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Electronic. Wide range of frequencies. Male vocals.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- I'm starting to really want to stop listening to these.
- These are really a chore. Everything I've said before about these stand again here. Nothing special to note. Nothing that sounds good that I haven't already noted. All the bad baggage is here as it was before.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Clarity. The male vocal's breathy affect is audible in a pleasing way.
- When the thumps come in, they come in with ease, clarity...they're just fun. The lower frequency tones present in the vocals, and all instrumentation, work for this track very well.
- Cohesion. Thats the APM compared to the Bose and m50x's. The APM bring the sounds of the track together in a cohesive way. Yes, it lacks the vary spacious separation of something like the 800's, but where the music blends together, they blend with a relaxed heart to the music. It's the bass perhaps, but it works very well.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Clarity, yes...and a more neutral take on the track. Perhaps this is better for mixing? Perhaps the neutrality is sought after for some. But I'll keep it simple here...the APM are more enjoyable. Nothing is beating the cohesion a rich undertone of bass brings to every vocal and instrument. It isn't just a bass instrument that bass benefits, it's many instruments and vocals where it benefits the APM.
- Once again, the instruments somehow sound like they're all over the place. I can't locate them in space around my head. They're behind one another, here and there, but don't appear authentic. Yes I can hear details, yes it's a neutral balance compared to the APM, and I prefer these so far over the Bose, but the stage feels competitive, messy, and tiring at times to listen through.

Track 4 - The Xith Commandment
Album: Feels So Good
Artist: Chuck Mangione
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Guitar, drums, bongos, wind instrument. Jazz. Great recording with great instrument separation possible and well mastered balance dynamics between them. Stereo channels are utilized to shift sound from one ear to another at times.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- This track "feels so good" no matter what you wear on your head. It's one of those songs you can enjoy almost no matter what. The soft horn, the gentle dance of percussions and other instruments in this jazzy song...feel so good. That being said...
- The Bose do not capture the high ceiling of joy this track can bring.
- The strings pluck in some distant manner. Even at max volume, they don't present to you in a way that you feel as if someone is there. Probably a lack of bass tones here.
- I feel like I'm listening to an altered recording of the real thing. The performance hides behind a white noise veil.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- I almost forgot the wind instruments, with the faintest breath of the musicians, existed. Playing the track reminded me of them. There's a trait about some headphones that, when the tuning is right for that song or genre, you just find yourself appreciating an instrument, the soft sounds of people being recorded, or the vocals. The APM give me that je ne sais quoi.
- Tune in to 2:35 and wait for that drum to kick in. Thump thump thump...beautiful! Those moments of delight come through only so many headphones for me. The APM have it, alongside the relaxed accompaniment of other instruments.
- The softer patter of symbols, escalating into what could be sibilant highs with other headphones, come off as tolerable and enjoyable as headphones can get here.
- Tune in to 3:15, a quieter moment, and see how it develops into something louder and more jarring at 3:30. This can be sibilant or far too harsh on the punchy mids on other drivers, but the APM make it something enjoyable. The APM play dynamic ranges of volumes and instrument intensity quite well where the comparisons here may instead be either sibilant or far too lifeless and neutral.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Not BAD, but not great either. Tune in to 3:15 through 3:30 and you can see how, although the instruments seem neutral and clear, they are tiring or too punchy at their highs. Still, not bad. It's ok enough that you can enjoy it if for nothing else but the cleaner playback compared to something like the Bose. But why do this to yourself? Why? The APM are effortless, luscious, and give a jazzy feel unlike what you get here with the clinical m50x's.
- I can see how someone could buy the m50x's for referencing, at an affordable price, to do their job. No need to splurge if you have to buy many for a workplace or staff, I can imagine. But as a personal investment to what you want to listen to as a choice for your own leisurely time, the APM are so far a clear winner in many objective and all subjective regards - to me, anyway.


Track 5 - Piano Concerto No. 1 in F-Sharp Minor, Op. 1: 3. Allegro vivace
Album: Rachmaninov: Piano Nos. 1 & 2
Artist: Krystian Zimmerman, Boston Symphony Orchestra & Seiji Ozawa
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Classical. Full orchestral performance. Piano, wind, strings. Dynamic range of volume. Variety of moments where different portions of the orchestra shines.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Get off my ears, you distant, unclear, piano-is-muddied, excuse for over ears.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Listen to the opening alone to hear a difference. The clear and present BOOM of the winds. There is nothing between you and the music here, compared to the Bose.
- Oh my...the piano comes in with such clarity. Love it.
- And in come the strings at 25 seconds, only for a moment to tease, then leave. Come back at 36 seconds..leave again...Then...
- Tune in to 0:55. At around 57/58, some winds come in, then the strings come once more back in at 1:05 to change the pace.
- For the Bose, these things don't call to me. On the APM, they have a chance to. Classical is much much better here than on the Bose. For greater detail on the APM here, please feel free to look back at a prior comparison I've made in the thread.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Ok, as usual, better than the Bose. Closer to the APM in clarity. I can tell the instruments apart better, the notes of the piano.
- Tuning in to one of my favorite moments at 0:55 through 1:05, it's not bad!
- I do not get the altogether richer, more rounded, "realer" sense of the music though as I do with the APM. There are moments where I could think too that the instruments were perhaps distorted? Something doesn't seem as clean, generally, as with the playback of the APM.
- On a budget, you could get away with listening to classical with these, but with far less fun and more distance between you and the orchestra. There's just something about the APM that keeps making me feel like I'm enjoying something closer to life.


Track 6 - One Step
Album: This is the Warning
Artist: Dead Letter Circus
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Rock. Dynamic range of soft to soaring male vocals. Intense drumming and guitar. Contrasting moments of calm to intense.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- The start of the track is noticeably distorted or inaccurate to the recording as I've heard it on other headphones/speakers.
- The higher frequencies of higher guitar notes do NOT get along with the drums.
The vocals feels somehow recessed, as almost everything does when they compete. Nothing stands up well unless you blast the volume and then hate yourself for doing it when one of the instruments or vocals inevitably kills your ears.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- My ears can relax now.
- Vocals can come out more clearly now, despite having so much rock noise to compete with.
- APM are a great choice for hard rock with soaring vocals. Drums play nicely with the guitar, which place nicely with the vocals. They're all there, and rock does naturally muddy the musical waters at times, but insofar as that is part of the spirit of rock music at times, the APM play it well and enjoyable without any sibilance or tiring punches.
- Exciting rock that's mellowed out enough, without losing clarity, to enjoy greatly

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Though not as well rounded and cohesive with the lower frequencies underlying the music, the m50x's are far better already than the Bose.
- Where they lack the mellowed out joy of the APM, the m50x does bring brightness in a way that can be nice to hear every now and again. Then again, it's bright without too much else to redeem it. It's a bit too clinical for me and misses the soul of the music - unhealed by how artificial these begin to sound.


Track 7 - Dark Horse
Album: PRISM (Deluxe Version)
Artist: Katy Perry
File info: Apple Digital Master (the only one on this list!) Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Pop. Female vocals. Mainstream commercial mastering, may be a good reference.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Is this..actually ok sounding? The first notes are striking, those loud digital noises. What do you even call those... They're clear enough I guess. But these aren't real instruments, so it's hard to say what here sounds "authentic" or accurate to life.
- I'm done...these have the same issues as always. The only difference here is that the track is so filled with artificial sounds that you could enjoy them in a strange sort of way since there's no real reference unless you ask the mixers what they intended.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- No contest. Can I stop now? What's to say I haven't already?
- Bass fills the space around the ears, and its in such a delightful way for something mastered for bass like this. Bass is actually enjoyable here, well...as enjoyable as mainstream mixed bass tracks can be anyway! Very subjective if you like it or not, but this bass is clear, in no way muddy. Good quality bass.
- Female vocals are much more pleasing compared to Bose.
- The claps in the background are clear, present, and fun.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Immediately I notice the sub bass just isn't as present or noticeable at all. It doesn't fill the space around the ears whatsoever compared to the APM.
- The higher bass frequency that is present, is just ok. Again, clinically neutral, but not even in a realistic way. In real life, if you pump bass in a large speaker driver on the dance floor, in a concert, etc...you'll expect to FEEL it prominently. Where the APM emulate that, the M50x's simply don't. In that sense, even for an all-digital track like this, it sounds less than authentic to how it was perhaps intended to be heard.
- The above note applies to vocals, etc. I'm done.


Conclusion
Bose QC 35 Series I
Don't buy these. Please. I have to test the QC 35 ii, to be absolutely sure of not recommending the updated version, but if it's anything like the series 1 in signature, don't do this to yourself. Yes they're $200 - $300 cheaper than the APM currently, but don't do it to yourself. You may use your next headphones for years to come! #treatyourself #selfcare
Look elsewhere.

AirPods Max
As with prior comparisons and detailed reviews of my experience with them, I would continue to say they hold strong as a choice for what sits around your ears. These are the clear winner for my personal taste for this comparison. As noted before, these bring joy and life to the music where others may not. Between the very high quality sub bass presence that often doesn't even perceptively exist on other headphones, and the detail and cohesion of the variety of sounds on any track, the APM are just a wonderful listening experience. For a wireless, closed back, ANC/transparency, high quality build materials and durability...these are fantastic.

Pay the $550, try these out, and return them if you don't like missing those extra dollars from your wallet for what you get out of these. Return policies exist for a reason! if you don't enjoy these as much as me, that's fine. If you enjoy your Bose, m50's, or whatever else, or your situation is different...fine! We are all different. But try them. They are very much worth choosing when you listen to music. Whether they are "worth" your money is up to you.

But would you really save a couple hundred dollars for a headphones you could use for 5+ years easily? We buy new phones every year to three years (most of us) for a lot more money! Come on! Have some damn self respect.

Woo..Ok I'm getting a bit heated here. Let's move on.

ATH-M50x
They're ok if you need something for a budget. If you really can't pay a few hundred more for the APM for any reason, and finances are very personal and varied among us indeed, then I totally understand if you want to go for the m50x instead. If you can't reasonably afford the APM in your budget, then you shouldn't buy them despite them being better. But they are better to my ears.

Hey, maybe you think the neutrality suits your job better if you edit sound in some way. Or maybe you need to buy multiple headphones for staff in your job. These are great for cheap options for reference headphones that may satisfy some use cases. However, if you ignore price and workplace budgeting situations, if you are trying to purchase these for yourself and want the better sounding (perhaps both objectively and subjectively), you are fart better off with the APM.


Final thoughts
Trying to compare the APM to these other two headphones is ridiculous. But I did it anyway. I'm not saying it's ridiculous for the price, I'm saying it's just ridiculous when you actually try listening to these side by side. There is no track, not one situation, where I enjoy the Bose or M50x over the APM.

The APM is entirely a different tier of quality, for referencing or for enjoyment, IMO.

EDIT:: I will be reviewing the AKG K361, alongside the Drop Panda, next. Same test - I will compare them track for track to the APM and see how they differ. Strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Bose‘s idea of sound quality is a joke (although it caters to a very specific consumer audience) and the M50x is a ridiculously overrated headphone.

I wonder what @Tyll Hertsens’ opinion of AirPods Max would be. If there was a headphone for him to (briefly) come out of retirement for it would probably be this one.

Last time we heard from him he said that was using a Bose QC35 and Beats Solo3 so he could replace both of those headphones with AirPods Max. (I’m also curious if he ever got his hands on the standard AirPods.)

 

[msq123]

Got mine coming next week.

I’m not all the bothered about the ‘convenience’, I think this is much less of a factor with big weighty over ears. If i’m carrying a 400g headphone with me plugging it into my phone or DAP as an extra step really isn’t a bother, so it’s going to be down to sound whether i keep them. I‘m very intruiged, and do enjoy the airpods pro.

It’s interesting to see reviewers harping on about the convenience, I honestly think apple just has them by the balls. If you have headphones with a lightning connector it’s really no trouble at all to plug em in, and besides, most people here would take that extra second for the boosted sound quality that wired offers. I see the appeal of wireless however, and the apple pairing is great for that.

I’m going to be holding them against my P9, it’s a bit of an unfair fight but then apple did say the sound quality is simply the best, so we’ll see. If the P9 are noticably better, APM goes back. I would love the APM to be mind blowing, as it would be handy for paring to my ipad pro, which has a goddamned USB C so I cant use my P9 lightning with them. It’s almost as if apple was planning this all along, remove headphone jack then mismatch ports on devices to make it incredibly inconvenient unless you go wireless. I almost dont want them to win that battle.

Would love to hear your take on it vs P9s. I appreciate that its a chalk and cheese comparison but still more relevant than HD800s which is impossible to carry around. I love my P9s and used it for a while with AQ DragonFly Reds but sound leakage and lack of isolation pushed it to a desk only headphone for me. I love the tuning on P9salthough those are not highly regarded amongst audiophile crowd but who cares I enjoy them second only to my Ananda. I think for train commute ANC is important hence I passed Panda's which arguably are better technically but wouldn't be fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

I have APM on pre-order but not getting until Feb so looking to get some perspective which would be more valuable when compared to something I know and appreciate.

 

[torifile]

To me, Airpods Pro + Sennheiser HD650/HD6XX >> Airpods Max.

Can you listen to both the AirPods Pro and HD6whatever at the same time? Otherwise, what's your point?

 

[tkddans]

Can you listen to both the AirPods Pro and HD6whatever at the same time? Otherwise, what's your point?

I think the point there he may have been making is that the APP have portability and convenience that beats all these headphones. Some people wouldn’t trade that for better sound if it means wearing big over ears. They would only listen to over ears at home.

So, if HD6anything are “better” than APM, the logic follows.

I disagree personally though thus far. Maybe my amp is a bad match, I don’t know, but I do prefer the APM over my 650’s. I suggest people try for themselves and see if they feel the same or not.

EDIT: I have a Schiit multi bit amp/dac magni/modi situation.

 

[msq123]

Thanks for sharing this! Seeing her face light up as she hears the music playing through these for the first time- I think we've all had that moment when we've listened to something better than what we had before, and we're just blown away and can't help but gape and grin at what we're hearing. Ultimately, it's about enjoying the music!

Couldn't agree more. It is about enjoying the music at the end of the day and most of the time we just go on about technicalities. Don't get me wrong, technicalities are important but so is the tuning which if not done right (or to your liking) could ruin the experience. HD6xx is one such headphone which is sort of "gold standard" but don't agree with my ears and I am fine with that.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Bose Quiet Comfort 35 Series I
vs APM
vs wired ATH-M50x

Here we go again. This time with a comparison that doesn't offend the critics (as much?)!
- The Bose QC Series I originally retailed at around $350. These are borrowed, I do not own them.
- The APM retails at about $550.
- The wired ATH-M50x retailed at around $150, at time of purchase (I may be mistaken at this point, but it's close to that). I'm using this wired pair because I already have it and it should be close enough in quality to the wireless version to be worth testing here as a wireless competitor.

Setup for QC 35 Series I:
Source, connection, and settings: Bluetooth connection to MacBook Pro. Apple Music. ANC turned on.
Setup for APM:
Source, connection, and settings: Bluetooth connection to iPhone 12 Pro Max. Apple Music. (would have connected to MacBook Pro as well, but for ease of switching, kept to separate device here). ANC turned on.
Setup for wired ATH-M50x:
Source and connection: Wired to same MacBook Pro. Apple Music. No ANC available.


Track 1 - Bauklotze
Album: Attack on Titan (Original Soundtrack)
Artist: Hiroyuki Sawano
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Female vocals, with instruments ranging from electric guitar, to drums, to strings.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Immediately get a fun punch in the drums.
- Vocals are loud, clear, fun, but maybe a tad tiresome on the female vocal high notes. But altogether not too bad vocally, when not sung too high.
- Difficult to pick up on instruments until loud volumes; but then the vocals become way too loud by comparison. The balance in volume of these things aren't very comfortable at loud total volume from music player.
- As the song goes on, the vocals really do become too uncomfortable to maintain high volume. Lowering a notch, the instruments immediately sound too low to enjoy as well as they were at higher volume.
- Have to switch back to the APM for reference to see what may be different, or missing from one to the other.
- After going back from the APM, immediately the brighter appearance around the upper mid region become apparent. But damn those vocals are too sharp! Pleasing pop on initial impression, with nice apparent clarity of strings at high volumes (again, if you can handle the piercing vocals)
- As noted in the back and forth notes under the APM section below, there's a lack of authenticity to the Bose. Though brighter in a pleasing way, it altogether sounds like there's something in the way of hearing the real thing - whether it's an overly bright and artificial vocal, odd sounding percussive instrument, or more distant strings.
- While bass is present, it isn't as luscious, nor as easily produced here. It doesn't seem to extend as far down as the APM and, while it is on first impression quick in response, it doesn't impart enough oomph to the sound in a way that helps meld the music together in an emotional way like the APM do.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Unrelated to sound, but immediately feels nicer, cozier, resting on the head. from the almost absent feel of the headrest to the comfortable pressure of a worn in (or used to) ear cups
- Sound is "cleaner"
- The sub bass is present in a way that it isn't on the Bose. Maybe too much if you like the brighter touch of the Bose. However, I'm finding myself preferring it being there more than not. Definitely a matter of taste here. I could see someone preferring the Bose on this track for the brightness and lack of the high bass found on the APM.
- That being said, the relaxing quality of the APM at higher volumes, with the vocals being far more tolerable, make it overall more enjoyable for me.
- I do seem to prefer the percussion's expression here over the Bose.
- Going back and forth with the Bose, I notice immediately how much more authentic to life the track sounds on the APM. The Bose almost appears artificial by comparison, particularly with percussion, wooden clapping I'm hearing, the strings, and the female's vocals.
- When all the instruments play alongside the vocals, the composition altogether has more...heart? This is a dumb word. I'm sorry. But I feel the song more with the APM. Where the vocals SING on the APM, they demand a bright, sibilant, artificial attention on the Bose.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Immediately, I notice a white noise in the background lifted up that wasn't as much present in either the Bose or APM. This makes the track appear dirtied. It isn't as relaxing to listen to with this there
- Vocals are far more tolerable than the Bose, but lack the roundedness that gives the APM more authenticity. Still, vocals are not that bad here to my ears. She sounds real enough to be enjoyable. Better than Bose, not as enjoyable and real as the APM.
- Softer wooden clapping in the background is clearer and more enjoyable than the Bose. Going back to the APM, they're similar in clarity, maybe in some sense more clear, but somehow located outside the music to me? As if...they're located outside the soundstage from the rest of the musical ensemble. This could make it appear to have a wider soundstage around the ears. However, the APM brings it closer to the stage, if that makes sense - and I enjoy how the APM does it more. With the APM these claps, alongside the bass tying things together once again, the inclusion of the wooden claps into the track feel more authentic, more enjoyable and present. The APM feels better here.
- The drums hit clear, but distant and without lower bass supporting it. Altogether, the APM does better with percussion from the kick drum to the smaller drums in giving a more believable playback to the real thing? I'm not a musician, but that's the impression I get as a listener.
- Strings seem the nicest on this so far, at first anyway. When you immediately switch from the APM to these m50x's, you feel like you were missing something in the APM. The m50x have a bright character which makes it feel as if the music is more open. However, this pleasure quickly goes away when the instruments sound too recessed, too far away from one another, or mushed up in places when they play all at once...Then the vocals pierce your ears and you hear the white noise in quiet moments.
- Overall, I can see how these are used as references at times for their neutrality, but the authenticity, the joy, the thump, and relaxation of the APM are gone - replaced by piercing, overly bright moments, and a general feeling of instruments existing but not in harmony. These are very subjective and wishy washy ways of explaining my impressions, but there it is.


Track 2 - Bass & Drum Intro
Album: Live
Artist: Nils Lofgren Band
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Guitar and drums

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Oh no. No no no. The cheering carries a strange high pitch with it that I'm just not digging. The brightness of these headphones are not welcome with the applause. Sibiliance, and just artificial sounding.
- White noise is back again. Not nice.
- Plucking is clear enough, but need to check with the other two pairs to see what I'm missing that I would like to hear. I'm not immediately taken by the sound signature here.
- I'm getting the sense of this song yet again feeling somewhat distant from a real life immersion. I hear the music clearly enough, and there's punchiness in places, but I'm still feeling put off by the white noise lifted up by the tuning and the artificialness of it somehow.
- Drums are a bit bright but with a good punch. Maybe missing lower bass tones though.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Like water in a desert, my thirst for authenticity is quenched. The cheers of the audience, the clapping, the plucking of the strings, the drumming, cowbell, all of it...It suddenly feels much more real, as if I'm much closer now to hearing the real reproduction of a show - instruments plugged into their stage amps.
- Rich bass presence that brings real life to the track.
- Loving those guitar strings. Delightful on this track with the APM compared to anything compared thus far.
- White noise plays back on every pair of headphones it seems, but they aren't somehow as distracting on the mellowed APM.
- Where's my drink waiter? I want to sip on something as I listen to this live performance.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Cheering and applause sound more realistic than the Bose, but lack the immersive presence I get from the APM
- Strings are ok. No delight though. The bass that brings live reality to the APM are gone here. Altogether I would pick these over the Bose for live perforamances of acoustics/drums if this track represents well enough that genre. But, I would pick the APM over both. The APM simply bring the joy of a live performance to life in a way neither of these other two headphones have.


Track 3 - Killing Time
Album: Legend of the Black Shawarma
Artist: Infected Mushroom
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Electronic. Wide range of frequencies. Male vocals.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- I'm starting to really want to stop listening to these.
- These are really a chore. Everything I've said before about these stand again here. Nothing special to note. Nothing that sounds good that I haven't already noted. All the bad baggage is here as it was before.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Clarity. The male vocal's breathy affect is audible in a pleasing way.
- When the thumps come in, they come in with ease, clarity...they're just fun. The lower frequency tones present in the vocals, and all instrumentation, work for this track very well.
- Cohesion. Thats the APM compared to the Bose and m50x's. The APM bring the sounds of the track together in a cohesive way. Yes, it lacks the vary spacious separation of something like the 800's, but where the music blends together, they blend with a relaxed heart to the music. It's the bass perhaps, but it works very well.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Clarity, yes...and a more neutral take on the track. Perhaps this is better for mixing? Perhaps the neutrality is sought after for some. But I'll keep it simple here...the APM are more enjoyable. Nothing is beating the cohesion a rich undertone of bass brings to every vocal and instrument. It isn't just a bass instrument that bass benefits, it's many instruments and vocals where it benefits the APM.
- Once again, the instruments somehow sound like they're all over the place. I can't locate them in space around my head. They're behind one another, here and there, but don't appear authentic. Yes I can hear details, yes it's a neutral balance compared to the APM, and I prefer these so far over the Bose, but the stage feels competitive, messy, and tiring at times to listen through.

Track 4 - The Xith Commandment
Album: Feels So Good
Artist: Chuck Mangione
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Guitar, drums, bongos, wind instrument. Jazz. Great recording with great instrument separation possible and well mastered balance dynamics between them. Stereo channels are utilized to shift sound from one ear to another at times.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- This track "feels so good" no matter what you wear on your head. It's one of those songs you can enjoy almost no matter what. The soft horn, the gentle dance of percussions and other instruments in this jazzy song...feel so good. That being said...
- The Bose do not capture the high ceiling of joy this track can bring.
- The strings pluck in some distant manner. Even at max volume, they don't present to you in a way that you feel as if someone is there. Probably a lack of bass tones here.
- I feel like I'm listening to an altered recording of the real thing. The performance hides behind a white noise veil.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- I almost forgot the wind instruments, with the faintest breath of the musicians, existed. Playing the track reminded me of them. There's a trait about some headphones that, when the tuning is right for that song or genre, you just find yourself appreciating an instrument, the soft sounds of people being recorded, or the vocals. The APM give me that je ne sais quoi.
- Tune in to 2:35 and wait for that drum to kick in. Thump thump thump...beautiful! Those moments of delight come through only so many headphones for me. The APM have it, alongside the relaxed accompaniment of other instruments.
- The softer patter of symbols, escalating into what could be sibilant highs with other headphones, come off as tolerable and enjoyable as headphones can get here.
- Tune in to 3:15, a quieter moment, and see how it develops into something louder and more jarring at 3:30. This can be sibilant or far too harsh on the punchy mids on other drivers, but the APM make it something enjoyable. The APM play dynamic ranges of volumes and instrument intensity quite well where the comparisons here may instead be either sibilant or far too lifeless and neutral.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Not BAD, but not great either. Tune in to 3:15 through 3:30 and you can see how, although the instruments seem neutral and clear, they are tiring or too punchy at their highs. Still, not bad. It's ok enough that you can enjoy it if for nothing else but the cleaner playback compared to something like the Bose. But why do this to yourself? Why? The APM are effortless, luscious, and give a jazzy feel unlike what you get here with the clinical m50x's.
- I can see how someone could buy the m50x's for referencing, at an affordable price, to do their job. No need to splurge if you have to buy many for a workplace or staff, I can imagine. But as a personal investment to what you want to listen to as a choice for your own leisurely time, the APM are so far a clear winner in many objective and all subjective regards - to me, anyway.


Track 5 - Piano Concerto No. 1 in F-Sharp Minor, Op. 1: 3. Allegro vivace
Album: Rachmaninov: Piano Nos. 1 & 2
Artist: Krystian Zimmerman, Boston Symphony Orchestra & Seiji Ozawa
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Classical. Full orchestral performance. Piano, wind, strings. Dynamic range of volume. Variety of moments where different portions of the orchestra shines.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Get off my ears, you distant, unclear, piano-is-muddied, excuse for over ears.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- Listen to the opening alone to hear a difference. The clear and present BOOM of the winds. There is nothing between you and the music here, compared to the Bose.
- Oh my...the piano comes in with such clarity. Love it.
- And in come the strings at 25 seconds, only for a moment to tease, then leave. Come back at 36 seconds..leave again...Then...
- Tune in to 0:55. At around 57/58, some winds come in, then the strings come once more back in at 1:05 to change the pace.
- For the Bose, these things don't call to me. On the APM, they have a chance to. Classical is much much better here than on the Bose. For greater detail on the APM here, please feel free to look back at a prior comparison I've made in the thread.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Ok, as usual, better than the Bose. Closer to the APM in clarity. I can tell the instruments apart better, the notes of the piano.
- Tuning in to one of my favorite moments at 0:55 through 1:05, it's not bad!
- I do not get the altogether richer, more rounded, "realer" sense of the music though as I do with the APM. There are moments where I could think too that the instruments were perhaps distorted? Something doesn't seem as clean, generally, as with the playback of the APM.
- On a budget, you could get away with listening to classical with these, but with far less fun and more distance between you and the orchestra. There's just something about the APM that keeps making me feel like I'm enjoying something closer to life.


Track 6 - One Step
Album: This is the Warning
Artist: Dead Letter Circus
File info: Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Rock. Dynamic range of soft to soaring male vocals. Intense drumming and guitar. Contrasting moments of calm to intense.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- The start of the track is noticeably distorted or inaccurate to the recording as I've heard it on other headphones/speakers.
- The higher frequencies of higher guitar notes do NOT get along with the drums.
The vocals feels somehow recessed, as almost everything does when they compete. Nothing stands up well unless you blast the volume and then hate yourself for doing it when one of the instruments or vocals inevitably kills your ears.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- My ears can relax now.
- Vocals can come out more clearly now, despite having so much rock noise to compete with.
- APM are a great choice for hard rock with soaring vocals. Drums play nicely with the guitar, which place nicely with the vocals. They're all there, and rock does naturally muddy the musical waters at times, but insofar as that is part of the spirit of rock music at times, the APM play it well and enjoyable without any sibilance or tiring punches.
- Exciting rock that's mellowed out enough, without losing clarity, to enjoy greatly

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Though not as well rounded and cohesive with the lower frequencies underlying the music, the m50x's are far better already than the Bose.
- Where they lack the mellowed out joy of the APM, the m50x does bring brightness in a way that can be nice to hear every now and again. Then again, it's bright without too much else to redeem it. It's a bit too clinical for me and misses the soul of the music - unhelped by how artificial these begin to sound.


Track 7 - Dark Horse
Album: PRISM (Deluxe Version)
Artist: Katy Perry
File info: Apple Digital Master (the only one on this list!) Apple Music AAC; 256 kbps bit rate; 44.100 kHz sample rate; "low profile" complexity (I don't know what that means); stereo channels
What we get from this track: Pop. Female vocals. Mainstream commercial mastering, may be a good reference.

Notes on the Bose QC 35 Series I:
- Is this..actually ok sounding? The first notes are striking, those loud digital noises. What do you even call those... They're clear enough I guess. But these aren't real instruments, so it's hard to say what here sounds "authentic" or accurate to life.
- I'm done...these have the same issues as always. The only difference here is that the track is so filled with artificial sounds that you could enjoy them in a strange sort of way since there's no real reference unless you ask the mixers what they intended.

Notes on the AirPods Max:
- No contest. Can I stop now? What's to say I haven't already?
- Bass fills the space around the ears, and its in such a delightful way for something mastered for bass like this. Bass is actually enjoyable here, well...as enjoyable as mainstream mixed bass tracks can be anyway! Very subjective if you like it or not, but this bass is clear, in no way muddy. Good quality bass.
- Female vocals are much more pleasing compared to Bose.
- The claps in the background are clear, present, and fun.

Notes on the ATH-M50x:
- Immediately I notice the sub bass just isn't as present or noticeable at all. It doesn't fill the space around the ears whatsoever compared to the APM.
- The higher bass frequency that is present, is just ok. Again, clinically neutral, but not even in a realistic way. In real life, if you pump bass in a large speaker driver on the dance floor, in a concert, etc...you'll expect to FEEL it prominently. Where the APM emulate that, the M50x's simply don't. In that sense, even for an all-digital track like this, it sounds less than authentic to how it was perhaps intended to be heard.
- The above note applies to vocals, etc. I'm done.


Conclusion
Bose QC 35 Series I
Don't buy these. Please. I have to test the QC 35 ii, to be absolutely sure of not recommending the updated version, but if it's anything like the series 1 in signature, don't do this to yourself. Yes they're $200 - $300 cheaper than the APM currently, but don't do it to yourself. You may use your next headphones for years to come! #treatyourself #selfcare
Look elsewhere.

AirPods Max
As with prior comparisons and detailed reviews of my experience with them, I would continue to say they hold strong as a choice for what sits around your ears. These are the clear winner for my personal taste for this comparison. As noted before, these bring joy and life to the music where others may not. Between the very high quality sub bass presence that often doesn't even perceptively exist on other headphones, and the detail and cohesion of the variety of sounds on any track, the APM are just a wonderful listening experience. For a wireless, closed back, ANC/transparency, high quality build materials and durability...these are fantastic.

Pay the $550, try these out, and return them if you don't like missing those extra dollars from your wallet for what you get out of these. Return policies exist for a reason! if you don't enjoy these as much as me, that's fine. If you enjoy your Bose, m50's, or whatever else, or your situation is different...fine! We are all different. But try them. They are very much worth choosing when you listen to music. Whether they are "worth" your money is up to you.

But would you really save a couple hundred dollars for a headphones you could use for 5+ years easily? We buy new phones every year to three years (most of us) for a lot more money! Come on! Have some damn self respect.

Woo..Ok I'm getting a bit heated here. Let's move on.

ATH-M50x
They're ok if you need something for a budget. If you really can't pay a few hundred more for the APM for any reason, and finances are very personal and varied among us indeed, then I totally understand if you want to go for the m50x instead. If you can't reasonably afford the APM in your budget, then you shouldn't buy them despite them being better. But they are better to my ears.

Hey, maybe you think the neutrality suits your job better if you edit sound in some way. Or maybe you need to buy multiple headphones for staff in your job. These are great for cheap options for reference headphones that may satisfy some use cases. However, if you ignore price and workplace budgeting situations, if you are trying to purchase these for yourself and want the better sounding (perhaps both objectively and subjectively), you are far better off with the APM.


Final thoughts
Trying to compare the APM to these other two headphones is ridiculous. But I did it anyway. I'm not saying it's ridiculous for the price, I'm saying it's just ridiculous when you actually try listening to these side by side. There is no track, not one situation, where I enjoy the Bose or M50x over the APM.

The APM is entirely a different tier of quality, for referencing or for enjoyment, IMO.

EDIT:: I will be reviewing the AKG K361, alongside the Drop Panda, next. Same test - I will compare them track for track to the APM and see how they differ. Strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Some of us realize that you compared the APM to 2 pretty low quality headphones. Why don't you try to compare them with something good like:

Audio Technica ATH-R70x: $350
Sennheiser HD600: $330
Hifiman Ananda: $700

 

[msq123]

To me, Airpods Pro + Sennheiser HD650/HD6XX >> Airpods Max.

That's a wrong comparison and I think DMS made it too without much basis IMHO. HD6XX are open backed and you need decent dac/amp to go with it which will make them as as expensive as APMs if not more (I know they are much revered but I personally don't like the claustrophobic sound). If you are going to be listening to APMs on your desk only then surely there are better options but the point of APMs is a decent sound on the go with ANC for commute so right comparison is Bose or Sony's offerings, Panda's likely better but no ANC could be a deal breaker for some.

Surely, we can compare APM with HD6XX as a point of reference and is useful for someone familiar with the latter but that's a different sort of comparison and is not an alternative for the same use case.

Couldn't agree more. It is about enjoying the music at the end of the day and most of the time we just go on about technicalities. Don't get me wrong, technicalities are important but so is the tuning which if not done right (or to your liking) could ruin the experience. HD6xx is one such headphone which is sort of "gold standard" but don't agree with my ears and I am fine with that.

we all know Ananda will blow APM out of the water, well they give a solid fight to headphones almost double the price (I replaced my Arya with Ananda because I didn't see the benefit of Arya over Ananda). But can you give me one use case where open backed Ananda could be a replacement for a closed back ANC BT headphone?

 

[tkddans]

Some of us realize that you compared the APM to 2 pretty low quality headphones. Why don't you try to compare them with something good like:

Audio Technica ATH-R70x: $350
Sennheiser HD600: $330
Hifiman Ananda: $700

I have a couple coming in the mail before the end of the month:
AKG K361 (~$120)
Drop Panda ($400)

I’m comparing those as they are wireless closed back stated as close to or better in sound quality by one critical audio reviewer, DMS. I’ve also seen at least one review that compared the Panda, APM, Sony 1000, and...Bose 700? He preferred the Panda just above the APM.

I already think the HD650, on my setup at least, holds no candle to the APM. But I can do it anyway? Honestly not even sure if I want to bother with that for now.

As another person stated as well, the examples you picked out are open back. I would love to try comparing them, as I did for the fun of it with the 800 S, but I don’t own them and want to keep my buying/returning to a decent minimum haha. I would only buy and return items I’m actually competing against the APM with categorically. I.e. closed back wireless.

 

[torifile]

we all know Ananda will blow APM out of the water, well they give a solid fight to headphones almost double the price (I replaced my Arya with Ananda because I didn't see the benefit of Arya over Ananda). But can you give me one use case where open backed Ananda could be a replacement for a closed back ANC BT headphone?

The stamped metal of the Ananda and the disgustingly cheap cable puts their build quality so far behind the APM, I wouldn't ever even give them the time of day. They are just gross. They could sound like angels singing and I wouldn't care.

 

[spinspin]

Thankyou pnoble (apple spokesman)

We are lucky to have you come out of your head-fi posting slumber of 7 years to be graced by such comprehensive apple promotional material as your first post re-debut.

It's good that you are re-iterating the narrative that APM is in the leagues of the legendary HD800, I think if enough people repeat this we will unconsciously believe it.

I think the listing of the Apple juggernauts large previous sales of AirPods, and large projected sales of APM have nothing to do with whether the original AirPods or the APM's have good sound quality and good sound quality vs price. Though your passage is to build a feeling of "apple is good, apple is big, apple is rich, apple will be an unstoppable force.. etc.

Your speculations on the amount of money they spent (large compared to other companies) does not ensure they will create a product that is better than what we already have in terms of SQ or what another company will create in soon time. Keep in mind we are in the head-fi forums where our main pursuit is to find good quality sound (not ecosystem integration).

I do think some of that money was not wasted as they created a distinguishable and high quality facade for a product. It's undeniable that they have achieved in making a statement piece that will possibly appeal to people that want to show off as you suggest ( the stuff about people using apple watches instead of Rolex watches in your recent observations). Unfortunately for people that would like good sound quality and a practical vehicle to deliver that sound quality, apple has instead made an unnecessarily heavy, and scratch prone product. They also made a headband that is at higher risk of damage and more delicate than usual offerings. They cleverly made a case that does not protect the headband nor a significant portion of the aforementioned scratch prone cups.
Reading one of the earlier reviews from a mainstream reviewer that generally had good things to say about they APM, he also noted that his ear pads did demonstrate noticeable wear after one week of use. Luckily apple made a removable pad mechanism to easily replace their ear pads with a sizeable cost.

This does suggest to me their bigger motivations were in the interest of making more money from continual sales of ear pads over time, and the inevitable rebuying of a total new pair when it gets scratched up and the headband frays. Obviously girls who replace their Rolex watches with apple watches like you say would rather be caught dead than to be seen wearing scratched ear cups and tatty headband APMs.

If their main brief for the APM was to create sizeable revenue and profits, and it is not unthinkable as all companies aim this, then their millions in RnD for the consumer product APM has achieved this well.

Regarding computational ways to increase sound quality I think that some people overestimate the ability of chips and processing to improve actual sound quality. Sure they can do nifty tricks involving gyros for spatial stuff and also (simulate 3d audio...and it's not that apple were the first to do this, it has been around for years in home theatre)....but what sets the difference in producing better sound as seen in the headphone industry and also in hifi stereo setups is the changes in the physical hardware that they use. That is things like producing the drivers with different materials, like cones with various physical substances, and tweeters in say beryllium. It's more about physical engineering than it is computational.

This sort of brings me to your example of a Leica camera being replaced by an iPhone 12 for camera duties. Sure the pictures on our phones have become better over time with software covering up for the deficiencies and limitations of the small lenses and sensors we can fit on a pocketable smartphone. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think a cheap point and shoot camera from earlier years with decent sensors and lenses (that is now worth 100usd used) will still outperform a smartphone camera of a 1200usd phone made today.

The good thing is your passage helped me work out what apple produced with the APM. A shiny recognisable facade status piece that houses average hardware. But has good integration to the apple ecosystem if you have it, and has a few computational tricks. It's overpriced and designed in a way that promotes wear and tear and further spending.

"And you can pick up a pair for under $600" Really?

Guys,

I've been ploughing through this thread and have some thoughts:

1. Firstly a shoutout to tkddans who gave us his painstakingly detailed personal listening comparison between the HD 800S and APM. And to those others who have shared their necessarily subjective listening comparisons with the HD 800S, HD95, etc.
2. The fact that the APM may be close in audio quality to the HD 800S, and in some respects easier to listen to, is surely a testament to the APM, considering that HD 800S/Schiit setup is > 3X the cost of the APM, and considering also the vast range of other benefits (for those that value them): from portability to ACN to spatial audio to beautiful integration with Apple devices, not to mention the aesthetics for those they appeal to.
3. Fact is: these are entirely different product categories, entirely different markets and entirely different companies. Some overlap in the first two categories? Of course. And this in no way invalidates the audio quality comparison.
4. Different product categories: wired, open, bespoke, high-end audiophile kit v. an Apple-level volume market BT closed ACN headset.
5. Different markets: this thread testifies to the Venn overlap, but, without having any inside knowledge, let me suggest that since Apple is thought to have sold an estimated 60 million Airpods in 2019 (i.e. in the range of $12 billion of just Airpods), they are targeting to sell many millions of APM at $545 and its anticipated, lower cost sports version. Rumors suggest $329.
6. Different companies: Sennheisser is a fine 75 year old company with an almost unparalleled reputation for many decades of consistent sonic excellence in both the consumer and commercial space. Their total revenues (2019) are approx. $920MM. I would be surprised if their audiophile headphones sell more than in the tens of thousands in aggregate. Apple did around 13 times more in just AirPod revenues than Sennheisser did as a total company across all their product lines and divisions last year. (They don't publish category revenue share). They spend approx. $70MM total in R&D. Apple spent approx. $19 billion on R&D last fiscal year. If they spent it on AirPod headphone development (I'm leaving out Beats here) according to revenue percentage (total $249 billion), they would have spent over $800MM on AirPods R&D, but since it is a new and fast growing product category for them, I'm guessing it was more. $1 billion or more. Just on headphone development.
7. So what is my point? It is this: the future of audio and the future of imaging is significantly 'computational'. And computational takes incredible resources. Apple is uniquely positioned in this respect, increasingly owning and controlling their entire technology stack, down to the core silicon. They also 'own' the premium end of the consumer market globally, to the tune of over 1 billion of the most affluent and the most aspirational customers. And it can amortize its incredible R&D costs over its incredible sales volume and still be highly profitable. It has unparalleled scale.
8. Does this mean that bespoke brands will cease to exist? Not in the short term, but I'd guess that they are vulnerable where they compete on the edge of mass, typically consumer markets; less so, in Sennheisser's case, for example, in niche professional/commercial/industrial markets that probably represent a significant share of their total revenues. A couple of other observations:
9. Computational allows for improvements in existing products. I'd be surprised if Apple doesn't announce firmware updates to the APM in the future that enhance its sound quality and maybe offer more customization.
10. I would not discount the social signifier aspects of the APM. A surprising percentage of business class passengers, pre-Covid, I observed, who used to typically sport Rolex watches had shifted to Apple watches, especially women. I'm willing to bet that APMs will become de rigeur for front-of-the-bus air travel. At the aspirational end of the market, I'd be surprised if APMs don't also become a core component of street fashion replacing Beats and at a higher price point.

Nothing said here is intended to criticize the audiophile/enthusiast headphone market in any way.

Paul

PS: the photography market is somewhat though not entirely analogous, (substitute Leica for Sennheisser and compare, dare I say, with the camera in an iPhone 12 Pro Max for most use/view cases), but this is an audio forum.

PPS: I am writing this at my desk with AirPods on each side of my MacBook (approx 1 meter apart) listening to Sonny Rollins Way Out West (recorded in 1957, re-mastered in 2010). I'm alternating with the APM. Another significant Apple achievement in computational sound. Breathtaking to my ears. Starting with the incredibly authoritative bass, not to mention the live sax. And you can pick up a pair for under $600. BTW, the desk is made of metal which might improve the resonance.

 

[mainguy]

Would love to hear your take on it vs P9s. I appreciate that its a chalk and cheese comparison but still more relevant than HD800s which is impossible to carry around. I love my P9s and used it for a while with AQ DragonFly Reds but sound leakage and lack of isolation pushed it to a desk only headphone for me. I love the tuning on P9salthough those are not highly regarded amongst audiophile crowd but who cares I enjoy them second only to my Ananda. I think for train commute ANC is important hence I passed Panda's which arguably are better technically but wouldn't be fit for purpose as far as I am concerned.

I have APM on pre-order but not getting until Feb so looking to get some perspective which would be more valuable when compared to something I know and appreciate.

Always good to see another P9 lover! Agree with the P9s as a good barometer for the APM! What a shame the leakage is bad for you, i think it depends a lot on head shape. The P9s are my go to portable headphone these days, sold my momentum 3s and MW65s as the sound is just so much better on the P9, and I found plugging in the lightning cable more convenient than pairing wirelessly all teh time.

I’ll make sure to post the comparison here when I get the apm. I think the P9 is pretty well regarded generally, it’s basically the result of two youtubers (neither of which I like much frankly) who slated them that they have a slightly bad rep, while the entire community of critics, and most people and head fi love them. Not to mention Tyll who put eh P7 on his wall of fame as the best headphone in it’s price category, and the P9 is undoubtebly better than the P7 so it’s certainly a very good piece of kit. I pick them up more than my focal clear’s personally.

I think they’re a good comparison to the APM because they are imo, the benchmark for a portable headphone. The sound quality is simply brilliant, but they’re also easy to drive and have a lightning cable for the iphone. THis makes them very convenient on ios, so imo the APM has to get reasonably close to the P9 in order to be worth it, otherwise, why not just buy a P9? ANC is the only real answer, and is why im trying them.

I saw a chap on reddit compare his P9 to his APM, he thinks the P9 are much better, which I’m kind of expecting anyway but we’ll see! It’d be nice if APM sit between the P7 and P9 in sound, while offering the extra features. That’d justify the price imo. But if not, you could argue one would be better getting a P9 for home use like yourself and sony xm3 for out and about, here in the UK P9s are around £400 (I got mine for that this year brand new) and xm3 is £150-180. So you could get both for an APM, and get the 3 p9 cables in the box...