AirPods Max

[yticolev]

APM $430 now on Amazon. That should make early posters in this thread who thought that is about the right price point happy, and those who thought $500 was about right ecstatic. That leaves early adopters who paid full MRSP and like the APM with a full year of enjoyment for a small premium.

 

[Not so fat head]

I checked these out at the Apple store and ended up buying them.. I nice demo can be had at the store, if you have access.
Not as good as my AKG N90q’s (I have two), but in the ballpark. It’s impressive as the AKG are wired only.
With the help of this blog, I’ve changed settings in the Apple OS to help customize to my liking.
I don’t understand the reluctance to EQ headphones and just go with the house sound. I’m mean it’s there, why treat it like a plague….
At one time I had $10k speakers I would EQ, actually several high end speakers over the years; why treat headphones differently?

 

[tinyman392]

I checked these out at the Apple store and ended up buying them.. I nice demo can be had at the store, if you have access.
Not as good as my AKG N90q’s (I have two), but in the ballpark. It’s impressive as the AKG are wired only.
With the help of this blog, I’ve changed settings in the Apple OS to help customize to my liking.
I don’t understand the reluctance to EQ headphones and just go with the house sound. I’m mean it’s there, why treat it like a plague….
At one time I had $10k speakers I would EQ, actually several high end speakers over the years; why treat headphones differently?

Some people are more purists... When doing comparisons EQs add a whole world of combinatorics to the issue (that's specific to comparisons though). For me, it's if I'm switching headphones I'd have to switch EQs. Even switching from the APP to APM, they have to share an "EQ" if I do anything which is annoying. However, if I have a DAC/amp that has it's own EQ built in, I will EQ to my liking if I feel the headphone needs it.

Edit: with the APM this philosophy more or less has to go out the window since the Adaptive EQ already EQs the headphones to your ears and movement. The N90Q also has a similar feature too where it EQs to your ears.

 

[Merkurio]

APM with just two or three filters in the 2-5 kHz region sounds truly amazing.

I don't see the point on settle with just "OK" sound quality when you can unleash the full potential of the headphone, specially one with astonishing low distortion like the APM.

 

[Not so fat head]

There’s only been a handful of recording Engineers that truly know sound production; Alan Parsons being one of them; don’t think I ever EQ’d his stuff.

You want to get a laugh, check out some of the headphones apps which have (famous) DJ’s preferred EQ setting…
Their idea of good sound varies wildly.
So many ways to enjoy music…

Anyway, I recommend the APM. If one looks around, can probably be bought for under $350 (open box) - $400.

 

[Merkurio]

There’s only been a handful of recording Engineers that truly know sound production; Alan Parsons being one of them; don’t think I ever EQ’d his stuff.

You want to get a laugh, check out some of the headphones apps which have (famous) DJ’s preferred EQ setting…
Their idea of good sound varies wildly.
So many ways to enjoy music…

Anyway, I recommend the APM. If one looks around, can probably be bought for under $350 (open box) - $400.

Being a recording engineer or a DJ means nothing regarding to know about psychoacoustics and how our ears work (and perceive sound).

In fact, many of the headphones used in production environments, are a very mediocre ones in terms of FR consistency and technical performance.

 

[tinyman392]

There’s only been a handful of recording Engineers that truly know sound production; Alan Parsons being one of them; don’t think I ever EQ’d his stuff.

You want to get a laugh, check out some of the headphones apps which have (famous) DJ’s preferred EQ setting…
Their idea of good sound varies wildly.
So many ways to enjoy music…

Anyway, I recommend the APM. If one looks around, can probably be bought for under $350 (open box) - $400.

I'd argue that an equalizer should equalize the equipment, not the song (or set of songs). That is, an EQ that works on most stuff should also work just as well on Alan Parsons' songs (getting said happy medium can be difficult). I will admit that there are some songs and albums that are mastered horribly... They should still remain outliers though and not the rule. If you count up on Head-Fi the number of times someone talks about an EQ for a headphone vs EQing for a particular song or genre this idea really does stand out. Most of the users on here that do EQ do it to have the headphone match some pre-conceived target they feel fits them best. One can also argue if you're not listening to the song the way the engineer heard it if your hardware isn't EQ'd to how their hardware is... Though that probably isn't a rabbit hole we'd want to walk down.

A DJ's preferred EQ setting... What headphone was said EQ designed for? Did said DJ actually care enough to listen to the headphone that the EQ was being applied to or did he just hand numbers that he uses for his hardware for the developers to use? Does the app have support for multiple headphones? If it does, are they even close to each other in terms of tonality? If not, do they physically have different EQs so they both match said target? It makes perfect sense for a manufacturer to make one app to support their entire line of headphones. Take the Sony line... The XM3 and XM4 are 2 different beasts and no one in their right mind would use the same EQ settings across them. Yet all the presets are the same between them in app (which is a pretty bad way to do it). In reality, the EQ should be used to have the respective headphones hit a particular "baseline."

I do feel, even if I don't do it often myself, that the ability of a headphone to be EQ'd to anyone's particular tonal preferences is important to know for buyers who want to do this. Granted on Head-Fi, we have a tendency to chase a headphone/DAC/amp combo that is already at our tonal preference vs EQing to reach it. Manufacturers that try to do this tend to be attacked (maybe attacked is too strong of a word) for doing so, take Audeze's Sine line as an example.

 

[Not so fat head]

The app I’m referring to, is the one downloaded for my JBL Club Ones.
I have many headphones, with my ultimate favorite being my Stax Sigma’s.
They actually look like you’re wearing two speakers on your head, with amazing imaging. I picked them up in the late 90’s.

Back to the Apple headphones. I don’t see how any other vendor can bring this level of build, silicon, mechanics and software to this price point. I have read that the cups are actually machined. I would bet most aluminum cupped headphones are stamped from other vendors. This might be important to some, pride of ownership, I think it must be frightening of the competition.

 

[Not so fat head]

One more thing, and I apologize for hijacking, but it does relate to the APM.
I’m surprised the AKG N90q’s didn’t get more love on Head Fi. I picked one up for around $750 and the other $400 (blowout sale on both).
As mentioned before, sorry I don’t remember your name, Similar philosophy with Apple Max. Seems both headphones use internal cup reflections, using frequency sweeps, to customize an EQ setting for your anatomy. I know Tyll Hersten showed this in action by placing the headphones on his head and later over his knee. There was a detectable difference, as one would expect, not really apples to apples (forgive the pun).
The AKG’s DO sound better than the APM’s.
Msrp for the AKG’s were $1,499.00, apples were $549.00 and dropping.

My point is, being able to control the whole signal chain, AAC, Decode, DAC, chamber EQ, corrections and finally amplification is only going to get better.

Exciting stuff ahead!!!

 

[MayaTlab]

I’m surprised the AKG N90q’s didn’t get more love on Head Fi. I picked one up for around $750 and the other $400 (blowout sale on both).
As mentioned before, sorry I don’t remember your name, Similar philosophy with Apple Max. Seems both headphones use internal cup reflections, using frequency sweeps, to customize an EQ setting for your anatomy. I know Tyll Hersten showed this in action by placing the headphones on his head and later over his knee. There was a detectable difference, as one would expect, not really apples to apples (forgive the pun).

Both the N90Q and APM use their internal mic (mics in the case of the N90Q) as feedback to adjust the FR in real time below 800Hz or so. This is nothing new, most ANC headphones with a feedback mechanism have been doing this for years.

The novelty with the APM - or the APP or recently the AirPods 3 (although I suspect that it's the same for the Bose 700) is that the feedback mechanism works even when ANC is turned off.

What the N90Q (and I believe some other Harman over-ears) does above 800Hz is different and not replicated on the APM. It adjusts the response at least up to a few kHz, but not in real time (after playing a signal). The article its adjustment mechanism is based on is... peculiar to say the least and I'm not certain that the adjustment's aim is truly well known (is it truly an individualised target - doubtful IMO - or is it aiming to reach the exact same target at the eardrum for any listener, which is a bad idea above 1kHz anyway ?).

The AKG’s DO sound better than the APM’s.

I prefer to restrain having a strong opinion on the N90Q as I never had the chance to listen to it in good conditions, but I didn't find it particularly brillant, even after personalisation. Both it and the APM would land for me in the "not crap but not quite there yet category", but the APM has better technical fundamentals (much cleaner base response below 5kHz with fewer resonances - in fact it's the easiest pair of closed backs I've ever tried for the purpose of equalisation, when combined with the feedback mechanism).

 

[Merkurio]

Both it and the APM would land for me in the "not crap but not quite there yet category", but the APM has better technical fundamentals (much cleaner base response below 5kHz with fewer resonances - in fact it's the easiest pair of closed backs I've ever tried for the purpose of equalisation, when combined with the feedback mechanism).

In fact, I find the APM post-EQ (with just 2-3 peak filters boosting the region between 2 and 5 kHz) to be one of the most fullest and enjoyable sounding headphones I’ve ever heard, not matter wireless or wired. Like the unicorn HD600 with proper extension at both ends that many people are looking for, being a closed wireless multi-featured headphone with far nicer build quality and materials.

The fundamentals are there, from impactful lower bass to upper-high extension, as well as proper leveled high-mids after the mentioned EQ, providing more than enough spatial qualities for a closed-back (and even for some open backs, like the HD600 series).

All without a single hint of audible distortion and a great sense of clearness/resolution as result.

 

[Maxxis]

I find the APM post-EQ (with just 2-3 peak filters boosting the region between 2 and 5 kHz)

How do you do this?

 

[Merkurio]

How do you do this?

With you favorite parametric EQ solution.

Equalizer APO + Peace GUI are the default option on Windows, I’m using SoundSource on macOS.

 

[fordski]

On the EQ discussion, I used to be an avid non-user of EQ believing it should be listened to "as the artist intended". However as I've grown older and my hearing has declined in certain frequencies, I've found the tools in Apple's Headphone Accommodations to be great using the Audiogram generated by the hearing test. In my case it brings up the higher notes a bit to compensate for natural hearing loss in the higher frequencies. I hope one they they allow these setting to be stored in the headphone itself as Beyerdynamic has done with the Amiron wireless. I've also at times used the profiles (parametric and convolution) available in the AutoEQ site and found those have madea positive difference on some of my headphones.

 

[Not so fat head]

Thx all, I need to check out this audiogram function..
My next purchase will most likely be the sennheiser 800’s, sometime next year.

This a great board!