[tinyman392]

I’ve been in the process of trying it but keep getting stalled on downloads (since it is all lossless now, it’s been taking forever and failing).

But Atmos worked instantly with APM connected.

The phone is still reading auto then. I’d say to turn off lossless and see if that fixes anything. But for offline music, you have to have downloaded the Atmos version in order to play it. I don’t know if the app defaults to lossless if that’s selected over Atmos.

 

[SparkOnShore]

The phone is still reading auto then. I’d say to turn off lossless and see if that fixes anything. But for offline music, you have to have downloaded the Atmos version in order to play it. I don’t know if the app defaults to lossless if that’s selected over Atmos

When I connect wired headphones app says it plays lossless. When I connect the APM app says it plays Dolby. There is an indication about what’s playing above each song. That is if both atmos automatic and lossless are on, like I have done.

 

[tinyman392]

When I connect wired headphones app says it plays lossless. When I connect the APM app says it plays Dolby. There is an indication about what’s playing above each song. That is if both atmos automatic and lossless are on, like I have done.

That would explain what @tkddans is running into. I was also going to mention that the APM has the ability to spatialize stereo on iOS 15 beta by utilizing the 3D head tracking features (as well as 3D head tracking spatial audio as well). So tkddans could also be hearing spatialize stereo audio rather than the Dolby Atmos audio. Granted the label under the scrubber would tell him which is which (unless that changed in iOS 15, I'm not currently on the beta).

 

[SparkOnShore]

That would explain what @tkddans is running into. I was also going to mention that the APM has the ability to spatialize stereo on iOS 15 beta by utilizing the 3D head tracking features (as well as 3D head tracking spatial audio as well). So tkddans could also be hearing spatialize stereo audio rather than the Dolby Atmos audio. Granted the label under the scrubber would tell him which is which (unless that changed in iOS 15, I'm not currently on the beta).

I am on 14.6, not using 15 beta. I didn’t understand, how can he hear spatialize stereo instead of Atmos? It’s either lossless when wired or Atmos with APM and APP, when you have lossless on and Atmos on automatic. Software seems to be aware and outputs according what’s connected. I am talking about 14.6, I have no idea how it will operate on iOS 15.

 

[tinyman392]

I am on 14.6, not using 15 beta. I didn’t understand, how can he hear spatialize stereo instead of Atmos? It’s either lossless when wired or Atmos with APM and APP, when you have lossless on and Atmos on automatic. Software seems to be aware and outputs according what’s connected. I am talking about 14.6, I have no idea how it will operate on iOS 15.

iOS 15 allows head tracking with stereo audio. So you could “spatialize” lossless audio that way. It also allows head tracking Dolby Atmos too, but these are two separate features.

I saying that when he puts on the APM, he may actually be hearing “spatialized” lossless stereo vs Dolby Atmos. Though the volume would not be matched up properly for that either unless Apple uses a quieter lossless master (which wouldn’t be a bad thing either).

 

[polymathic]

I agree with @tkddans. The more I listen to Atmos, the less I trust it. There is a distinct benefit with 50s and 60s jazz recordings, where the stereo separation is excessive and artificial when listening with headphones. Everything else is really hit and miss, with more misses than hits. Some classical seems to benefit, but often at the cost of dynamic range. I also can't quite understand how Apple's audio engineers (or whoever is involved with Atmost at Apple Music) believe that recessed vocals is somehow an improvement.

 

[tkddans]

I agree with @tkddans. The more I listen to Atmos, the less I trust it. There is a distinct benefit with 50s and 60s jazz recordings, where the stereo separation is excessive and artificial when listening with headphones. Everything else is really hit and miss, with more misses than hits. Some classical seems to benefit, but often at the cost of dynamic range. I also can't quite understand how Apple's audio engineers (or whoever is involved with Atmost at Apple Music) believe that recessed vocals is somehow an improvement.

There were a couple tracks I found to feel almost intended or designed for Atmos on that list Apple provided (see my last section of tracks for some examples of this). They do show the potential for future sound engineers to capitalize on.

Though yes, by and large, many tracks are misses - particularly with vocals as you and I notice.

 

[SparkOnShore]

iOS 15 allows head tracking with stereo audio. So you could “spatialize” lossless audio that way. It also allows head tracking Dolby Atmos too, but these are two separate features.

I saying that when he puts on the APM, he may actually be hearing “spatialized” lossless stereo vs Dolby Atmos. Though the volume would not be matched up properly for that either unless Apple uses a quieter lossless master (which wouldn’t be a bad thing e

I understand, but what is the actual difference between spatialized lossless audio and Atmos? How can it be on the APM, since they cannot transmit lossless audio due to the known bluetooth limitations? Also when you put the APM on, the app shows immediately that it is playing Atmos. Do you mean that spatialized lossless audio will be played on the non Atmos songs? But again, if so, I don't think we can ever use the term lossless audio for the APM, since Apple made it clear that even when streaming lossless, the APM will output AAC bluetooth compression audio.

 

[tinyman392]

I understand, but what is the actual difference between spatialized lossless audio and Atmos? How can it be on the APM, since they cannot transmit lossless audio due to the known bluetooth limitations? Also when you put the APM on, the app shows immediately that it is playing Atmos. Do you mean that spatialized lossless audio will be played on the non Atmos songs? But again, if so, I don't think we can ever use the term lossless audio for the APM, since Apple made it clear that even when streaming lossless, the APM will output AAC bluetooth compression audio.

Spatialized lossless is spatialized stereo. For the APM, the signal is converted to AAC for BT transfer then a head tracking effect added in by the APM. Dolby Atmos uses a 5.1 sound input into an HRTF which is then sent to the APM. The APM will then apply head tracking to it.

Spatialized lossless is probably the wrong term to use. But I think there is a possibility that the lossless version of the song is being played, but the APM is applying head tracking to it (available in iOS 15) rather than playing an actual Atmos version of the track.

Edit: the only issue is that the volume wouldn’t be affected if he were only playing the lossless version of the song (vs lossless vs Dolby).

 

[tkddans]

UPDATE

So I found out why sometimes I couldn’t hear a difference and sometimes I could.

When I downloaded all the files, i had to make the setting “Automatic” for Atmos. It was only when I set it to Automatic that I would then be able to switch spatial on or off and hear a difference between the switch (when turning Spatial on or off via control center).




If the setting is changed to “Always,” then the control center option to turn Spatial Audio on or off results in no change. In other words, like @tinyman392 said, Spatial Audio will not alter Atmos.

Simply put, if you seek to compare Atmos being on and off, you MUST choose “Automatic” in settings. Maybe this was already said, or maybe I’m wrong, but that was what I am currently experiencing.

Perhaps then, choosing “Always” in settings would mean that you would always hear Atmos, and therefor the Spatial Audio button will only affect the head tracking, but not Atmos.

“Automatic” means the Spatial button turns on and off Atmos AND head tracking.

“Always” means the Spatial button does NOT turn on and off Atmos, but would only affect head tracking.

 

[Author]

Am I understanding this correctly?

The only way to hear Dolby Atmos on an “unofficial“ set of headphones is to use the Always selection.

If that’s correct:

Does head tracking work on “official“ headphones when Always is selected? If the answer is yes, why would I ever choose Automatic? Choosing Always allows me to switch between headphone brands and get the Atmos experience regardless. (Without head tracking on the off-brand headphone, of course.)

 

[SparkOnShore]

Spatialized lossless is spatialized stereo. For the APM, the signal is converted to AAC for BT transfer then a head tracking effect added in by the APM. Dolby Atmos uses a 5.1 sound input into an HRTF which is then sent to the APM. The APM will then apply head tracking to it.

Spatialized lossless is probably the wrong term to use. But I think there is a possibility that the lossless version of the song is being played, but the APM is applying head tracking to it (available in iOS 15) rather than playing an actual Atmos version of the track.

Edit: the only issue is that the volume wouldn’t be affected if he were only playing the lossless version of the song (vs lossless vs Dolby).

Clear, thanks for explaining.

 

[SparkOnShore]

Am I understanding this correctly?

The only way to hear Dolby Atmos on an “unofficial“ set of headphones is to use the Always selection.

If that’s correct:

Does head tracking work on “official“ headphones when Always is selected? If the answer is yes, why would I ever choose Automatic? Choosing Always allows me to switch between headphone brands and get the Atmos experience regardless. (Without head tracking on the off-brand headphone, of course.)

One thing that I can think of is that always will push Atmos on headphones on which result may not be that successful and in that case the non Atmos version may be more appropriate. I think Atmos will not work the same on all sources, depending on many factors, audio drivers as well as software implementation included.

 

[rael67]

Am I understanding this correctly?

The only way to hear Dolby Atmos on an “unofficial“ set of headphones is to use the Always selection.

If that’s correct:

Does head tracking work on “official“ headphones when Always is selected? If the answer is yes, why would I ever choose Automatic? Choosing Always allows me to switch between headphone brands and get the Atmos experience regardless. (Without head tracking on the off-brand headphone, of course.)

That‘s right if the „unofficial“ set of headphones supports Dolby Atmos, if not the automatic Mode makes sense. For example „Tom Sawyer“ from Rush sounds very nice in Dolby Atmos using the APM. With the B&O H95 it Sounds very bad (like the membran is damaged, at min 2:35 for example).

 

[cleg]

Of course, I'm really late for this party, but I recently bought APM and I can't resist sharing my opinion