[rcoranje]

I haven’t personally heard the Abyss stuff, but a lot of highly respected people rave about them - from Steve Guttenberg to Linus Sebastian to people at audiophile meets to people on this board and others.

If you’re assuming they’re terrible based on the whole ordeal with Audio Science Review, I wouldn’t, as ASR’s headphone reviews have shown themselves to be pretty worthless. Their methodology has resulted in them crapping on some of the most beloved and highly esteemed headphones in the industry. For example, just recently, ASR handed out negative reviews to the Ananda and to the Focal Clear, two headphones that are universally loved. They’ve done the same to so many others. That makes me highly suspicious of their negative reviews on Abyss, especially when someone as credible as Steve Guttenberg showers Abyss with praise.

With all of that said, I agree that the Abyss guys can get a little silly sometimes. I enjoy their YouTube channel, but the way they talk about amps, DACs, and even cables can definitely feel a little snake-oily at times.

A little snake-oily?

 

[hehifi]

I think this Apple article explains it all; https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212183. Both lightning to 3,5' as well as mac's headphone out can play lossless at 24 bit / 48 kHz. This is also I believe the limit of human hearing, on normal ears (there are people who could possibly hear differences on higher resolutions, not me though). everything seems clear to me now, thanks for your help.

The lightning to 3.5 mm cable was initially designed for using AirPods Max on plane where doesn't have bluetooth support. Though one can use this cable to realize quasi-HiFi, it was not designed for this purpose. This Apple lossless announcement is totally a failure, since they have no device can support it. They didn't keep it in mind when they design APM, they are short-sighted.

 

[angelom]

I received my grey Airpods Max and some first impressions from today:

• As per Apple's usual build quality, the finish is impeccable
• Unlike Apple's typical standard, the case is ugly and fiddly
• It's surprisingly heavy
• The headband is extremely comfortable
• After an hour my neck is starting to hurt
• The ANC is fantastic

Sound-wise:

• Tonally, very pleasing
• Overall sound profile is very cohesive
• Listening to electronic/synth-pop, the synths are nice and slinky, the bass is fairly deep and tight
• Listening to hardcore/metal, the mid-range is too polite/glossed-over
  • Playing with the headphone accessibility makes it a little more punchy, but at the expense of some of the bass/lower-mids

I've been using a Beoplay H6 (2nd gen) plus Shanling UP2 combo and the sound isn't too dissimilar however the H6 (while still quite cohesive/polite) has more bite in the mids. The APM has a slightly wider soundstage. One of my frustrations with the Shanling is that it works as a wired DAC which makes it easy to compare bluetooth versus wired - this highlights how the finer details are lost using wireless transfer. I'm worried that we might be hitting the upper limits of bluetooth quality.

I'm a little on the fence as to whether I keep the APM. The build quality is fantastic but the case is so inconvenient and the weight might be a little too much for me. I'm tempted to go try out the Beoplay HX and see whether it can compete with my H6+DAC combo.

I having problems with the apm mids too after I spending one month with this headphone (I having problems with comfort too unfortunately).

You mentioning maybe trying the b&o hx. I have the b&o h95 for 9,5 months now and I trying the hx recently. I can telling you now that for me the apm is better in sound, in general, than the hx. For me the hx mids are fine, but the treble is a little hot and the bass a little lean (you needing eq'ing). If you can spending more, I suggesting strongly that you trying the excellent h95 which for me is the best bt/anc I trying (and I trying more than 35 in the past).

 

[tkddans]

I haven’t personally heard the Abyss stuff, but a lot of highly respected people rave about them - from Steve Guttenberg to Linus Sebastian to people at audiophile meets to people on this board and others.

If you’re assuming they’re terrible based on the whole ordeal with Audio Science Review, I wouldn’t, as ASR’s headphone reviews have shown themselves to be pretty worthless. Their methodology has resulted in them crapping on some of the most beloved and highly esteemed headphones in the industry. For example, just recently, ASR handed out negative reviews to the Ananda and to the Focal Clear, two headphones that are universally loved. They’ve done the same to so many others. That makes me highly suspicious of their negative reviews on Abyss, especially when someone as credible as Steve Guttenberg showers Abyss with praise.

With all of that said, I agree that the Abyss guys can get a little silly sometimes. I enjoy their YouTube channel, but the way they talk about amps, DACs, and even cables can definitely feel a little snake-oily at times.

Yea. They’re supposed to have great sounding gear indeed. So when they review just about anything else, it would certainly make sense that their commentary would be skewed by a bias for stunning sound quality that they spend all their time with.

Still, I would like to know how they would comment on APM in context of the price bracket and competing gear in that range (and with any wireless option).

 

[tinyman392]

Yea. They’re supposed to have great sounding gear indeed. So when they review just about anything else, it would certainly make sense that their commentary would be skewed by a bias for stunning sound quality that they spend all their time with.

Still, I would like to know how they would comment on APM in context of the price bracket and competing gear in that range (and with any wireless option).

They did some videos on the APM. They didn't go too far into sound; they were more focused on the hardware engineering and mass production aspect of it.

 

[SparkOnShore]

The lightning to 3.5 mm cable was initially designed for using AirPods Max on plane where doesn't have bluetooth support. Though one can use this cable to realize quasi-HiFi, it was not designed for this purpose. This Apple lossless announcement is totally a failure, since they have no device can support it. They didn't keep it in mind when they design APM, they are short-sighted.

I am not talking about the lightning cable of the APM. I am talking about the lightning to 3,5' dongle, which you use to connect any wired headphone to an iPhone and get 24/48 lossless audio with Apple Music. I only use my APM wireless, no need for any cable. I use the dongle to listen lossless with my Shure iems.

 

[hehifi]

I am not talking about the lightning cable of the APM. I am talking about the lightning to 3,5' dongle, which you use to connect any wired headphone to an iPhone and get 24/48 lossless audio with Apple Music. I only use my APM wireless, no need for any cable. I use the dongle to listen lossless with my Shure iems.

Sorry for misunderstanding your statement. Yes the lightening to 3.5 mm adapter is good because it is cheap and compact. However, the adapter cannot fully drive your shure iem, if you have chance you can compare it with an external DAC.

 

[senorbroom]

I having problems with the apm mids too after I spending one month with this headphone (I having problems with comfort too unfortunately).

You mentioning maybe trying the b&o hx. I have the b&o h95 for 9,5 months now and I trying the hx recently. I can telling you now that for me the apm is better in sound, in general, than the hx. For me the hx mids are fine, but the treble is a little hot and the bass a little lean (you needing eq'ing). If you can spending more, I suggesting strongly that you trying the excellent h95 which for me is the best bt/anc I trying (and I trying more than 35 in the past).

Thanks for the info. I'm disappointed to hear that the HX isn't all that great. It'd be frustrating to spend $840 on the HX and have them not even match my H6II ($350). I'd love the H95 but they're $1400 here. I've read a bunch of reviews that say the H95 isn't *hugely* better than the APM. Do you personally think it's much better at resolving details or that it just has better tuning?

 

[justanut]

The lightning to 3.5 mm cable was initially designed for using AirPods Max on plane where doesn't have bluetooth support. Though one can use this cable to realize quasi-HiFi, it was not designed for this purpose. This Apple lossless announcement is totally a failure, since they have no device can support it. They didn't keep it in mind when they design APM, they are short-sighted.

Hmm.. Apple Lossless is for Apple Music, don’t see why they need to have devices that support it to have it? Is there a Tidal or Qobuz headphone out there? I’m sure many HeadFiers are appreciative of this free upgrade.

On the contrary, I think Apple is being smart to not support lossless on APM.. now they get to sell me an Airpods Max Pro

 

[SparkOnShore]

Hmm.. Apple Lossless is for Apple Music, don’t see why they need to have devices that support it to have it? Is there a Tidal or Qobuz headphone out there? I’m sure many HeadFiers are appreciative of this free upgrade.

On the contrary, I think Apple is being smart to not support lossless on APM.. now they get to sell me an Airpods Max Pro

There are limitations in bluetooth transmission, not allowing lossless audio. And Apple will never produce a cabled headphone anymore. So, they will either create their own wireless protocol somewhere in the future or no lossless with any APM iteration.

 

[angelom]

Thanks for the info. I'm disappointed to hear that the HX isn't all that great. It'd be frustrating to spend $840 on the HX and have them not even match my H6II ($350). I'd love the H95 but they're $1400 here. I've read a bunch of reviews that say the H95 isn't *hugely* better than the APM. Do you personally think it's much better at resolving details or that it just has better tuning?

Is a pity the h95 is so expensive where you're living.

For me the h95 is better in resolution than apm, but not "much better". The mids in h95 having better definition / clarity and the bass notes better delineation.

 

[SparkOnShore]

Sorry for misunderstanding your statement. Yes the lightening to 3.5 mm adapter is good because it is cheap and compact. However, the adapter cannot fully drive your shure iem, if you have chance you can compare it with an external DAC.

No need to say sorry, everything's fine here! I disagree though, the apple adapter is rather capable in outputting 24 bit, 48 kHz which is just perfect and enough of a lossless audio to me. External DAC is necessary only if you want the hi res lossless of 192 kHz, which is not the case for me since my ears cannot discern those differences. Regarding output volume of the adapter, is more than enough for a 7 ohms impedance iem like the Shure Aonic 4. So no extra Dacs and Amps here...

 

[neverover]

- More bass. As stated, this may interfere with my ability to more easily pull detail from other instruments in the track. However, this bass does give a subjectively enjoyable thump to the track that the HD 800 S does not. Going back and forth, one could miss the bass when they move to the 800 S.
- As you move from the 800 S to the APM, you may miss the clearer separation of instruments. Though the detail can be discerned, it IS there in the APM, it isn't as readily available. There's less ease to the APM compared to the 800 S in delivering these details. There is less spaciousness in the sound, in the soundstage I suppose.

Hey, was wondering if you have the updated impressions with Dolby Atmos and High Res Lossless? Would love how to hear your take on this.

 

[tkddans]

Hey, was wondering if you have the updated impressions with Dolby Atmos and High Res Lossless? Would love how to hear your take on this.

Testing now! I appreciate your appreciation of my take on it

I've had some bugs with downloading lossless files so I've held off on digging back into APM for testing the recent sweep of changes (lossless and spatial), but will try today for some time. I'll get back to you today or tomorrow on what I find.

 

[SparkOnShore]

Hey, was wondering if you have the updated impressions with Dolby Atmos and High Res Lossless? Would love how to hear your take on this.

Testing now! I appreciate your appreciation of my take on it

I've had some bugs with downloading lossless files so I've held off on digging back into APM for testing the recent sweep of changes (lossless and spatial), but will try today for some time. I'll get back to you today or tomorrow on what I find.

But I did not understand; how will you test lossless and hi res lossless on the APM, since there is no lossless over bluetooth? Have I got your writing wrongly or do you mean with the Apple cable?