[linux4ever]

They've achieved 73% of the goal.$36,390 out of $50,000. Very good. All the best to them!

 

[Canyon Runner]

Ok guys. While I've been tagged on a number of posts, for some reason I was never notified. So I never knew this thread was a thing until just now. I think it got mentioned as I was going thru my PM's once but something came up and I didn't have the time to click it, I don't remember. 
 
So I'll be doing my best to address whatever I can, but as you can imagine there's a whole lot of stuff to hit. So give me some time. 

 

[Blommen]

Good to see you here Canyon Runner, looking forward to your responses 

 

[elnero]

  Ok guys. While I've been tagged on a number of posts, for some reason I was never notified. So I never knew this thread was a thing until just now. I think it got mentioned as I was going thru my PM's once but something came up and I didn't have the time to click it, I don't remember. 
 
So I'll be doing my best to address whatever I can, but as you can imagine there's a whole lot of stuff to hit. So give me some time. 

Great to see you on the thread!

 

[Canyon Runner]

I apologize in advance, the best way for me to try and not miss any thing is to respond to posts one page at a time. So there will probably be multiple posts in a row, so I'm sorry for that ahead of time. I know double/triple posts from the same person annoy me, but what are ya gonna do ya know...

 

[linux4ever]

Thanks Canyon Runner for taking the time to post useful information and answer questions. Much appreciated. I would like to know what are the plans of ASIUS to provide multiple "back plates" in the future that would provide various levels of isolation. The current one being very open doesn't work for me if I've to use it at work.

 

[Canyon Runner]

 
 
I do not hear anyone talking about these or must have missed the thread dedicated to the Adel Eardrums by Asius but have some questions?
 
1. What is the ETA on the Eardrum?
 
2. Is the preorder price a discounted price that is expected to go up after its in stock?
 
3. Are we Asius to have a full product line of IEM including customs?
 
4. Description says its adjustable "Noise Isolation: Adjustable via ADEL™ technology"  is that comparable to them MAM module?
 
5. Anything special about the driver(not knit picking just asking...cost control allows to a price point to available to the average consumer i get that ) 
 
https://asius.myshopify.com/collections/all/products/adel-earbuds

1) I think the month I've heard for delivery is February, it's not really my area, but that's what I've overheard.
2) Yes the price will go up after the crowd funding campaign, I think expected retail is on the website.
3) We don't have plans to do custom molds, they're an earbud afterall.
4) Yes and no. From the get-go, they're designed to be very open sounding. We've actually worked to make them as non-isolating as possible. When you tension the membrane, it does shift the amount of outside noise that comes in a bit. But we have plans for different backs, that will allow the user to pick different isolation amounts for different enviroments.
5) The 10mm speaker isn't anything special, but what we're able to do with it via such a large membrane IS. The 11mm (technically 10.8mm) speaker from Cardas is a great little speaker though.
 
 

  azerty6713 : I already got that newsletter too. I don't know any details yet but get hyped. Maybe this is a chance to get 12 BA driver with really special price likes the previous KS campaign.

There are no plans for BA only type Drum earbuds at this time.
 
 

  Normally Indiegogo is a definite no-no for me for several reasons, one of them being the irrevocable pledging structure. On kickstarter you're able to change/up your pledge, not on IGG. Now I have backed the previous ADEL crowdfunding campaign (U6) and since day one and have been very happy with them so I might have to reconsider and back an IGG for a change.......
 
As with their previous campaign Asus is going to market their own brand, not only the ADEL technology, their buds are 'private labeled'.
 
1) who is making these private labeled housings for them?
2) what kind of drivers and configurations will be used?
3) has anyone heard the Drum Earbuds?
4) how will these compare to the Empire Ears IEMs?
5) what's the difference between ADEL Drum version and previous ADEL versions?
6) will the module on these be interchangeable with other ADEL modules?
7) buds only or customs as well?
 
Would be nice if people like @Canyon Runner could join us on this thread

1) We are making the earbuds, we've talked to a few injection molding places to make the parts (rather than using our 3d printer, since that would take forever)
2) It's a 10mm moving coil speaker at the lowest level, then an 11mm Cardas moving coil speaker, then the Cardas paired with some BAs to help out with the treble and highs.
3) People at RMAF were able to hear the 10mm speaker version, I assume maybe a few have commented on other pages since you posted. But we'll see if I get there tonight.
4) These are earbuds, Empire makes in-ear monitors. The ADEL Drum is not designed for on-stage use or anything like that. This is an affordable way to have people get the benefit of the ADEL technology at a much lower price point than shelling out the big bucks for high-end IEMs. Since we're using dynamic driver speakers and Empire uses BA's the sound delivery is very different, it's apples and oranges on both fronts.
5) All previous versions of ADEL were secondary ear drum modules that fit inside an IEM, the Drum is completely different. It's a stand alone ear bud, where the secondary ear drum is the entire back of the device (with a grill over it). You could say that it's like putting the speaker within the module, rather than putting the module on the sealed ear canal.
6) No, there really wouldn't be a point in doing that. 
7) These are ear buds, not IEMS.
 
 

  just added my email to indiegogo.
 
They use the word "Earbuds".  I am hoping these are smaller scale so I can use for my workouts.
 
I am hoping Asius will produce "lower end" models and let Empire do the higher end iems

That's pretty much the game plan, we have no plans to break into Empire's territory. Even though the Supra is priced close to our top-end and that thing is a great performer for the money. That was in their line up and priced accordingly before we even started building the Drums.
 
 

I haven't placed any orders yet, but I think I might go for Level 1 since I am completely new to this tech.

Might need to PM @Canyon Runner about this first since I have no experience with IGG but still wanna support Asius Tech.

Though I assume "hardwired" on Level 1 means there'll be no switching cables for it?

Yes, level 2 is the 10mm with a 2pin connector so you can swap cables. That's like the only difference between the two levels really.
 
 

  The Cardas transducer is AMAZING! The question I have is with or without the BA tweeter. A friend lent me a pair of Cardas A8s. The transducer is extremely fast resulting in excellent SQ. Like excellent... accept for the mid bass hump. Also, the ergonomics SUCKED... they were heavy and not wired for over ear so they wouldn't stay in place. It pissed me off because the driver was sooo good. Asius seems to have done everything right in terms of human factors, plus it appears that you can tune the bass by tweaking the magic ADEL diaphragm. 

Yes there is a HUGE amount of tuning available with the bass. Larger the membrane, the more you can play with bass response. Once we heard the A8 speaker at RMAF (the Cardas booth was directly across from the Empire booth) we knew we had to have it for the drum.

 

[Canyon Runner]

  It the ADEL? I heard the prototype of these buds at CanJam last March and they sounded really good. I think Stephen was using the 10mm conventional driver at that time.
 
It the Cardas transducer? Nope. AFAIK, Asius is the first company to OEM the driver.

There isn't a product called the ADEL, that's a common misconception. ADEL is an entire series of technology. We didn't have a Drum prototype with us at that CanJam, you probably heard the bubble or one of the other prototypes we were messing around with at the time using the inflatable tips.
 
Yes, we are using the Cardas speaker out of the A8.
 
 

  BA's suck. The ideal is a single transducer that covers the entire frequency range. This is true for IEMs, headphones and speakers. So what does a designer do? If you are in the BA world, you put in some woofers, mids and tweets. Now you have crossovers in between. Crossovers create all sorts of problems, most notably phase and amplitude misalignment. This reads out as screwed up timbre and soundstage. Now you wave your hands about V shape or U shape or some other BS. Now, don't get me wrong. Noble K10s are fun to listen to, but in no way are they accurate

Spot on. BA's do not sound good. You're able to make them sound solid when you have a series of them, but as a whole, if you put one dynamic driver in a housing and then do the same with a BA, you find out real quick how poorly BAs sound compared to a moving coil speaker.
 
 

  Aren't we all? Thanks for asking the questions! I think you have helped me talk myself into saving $300! The neat thing with the tweakable diaphragm is that it allows you to change the signature, which IMHO is very, very cool.

There will be alot of things the user will be able to customize with the Drum, it's all modular. It's really kinda the tuner car of the headphone world. Between the membrane tensioning, the different membranes, grills in different configurations, different inserts in the space between the back and front of the speaker to change the size of the gap, different nozzle inserts, etc. There's a whole lot you can do to really fine tune how you like it to sound. This is a big reason there isn't a set sound impression or something like a sound curve posted, because it's sooooooooo variable with what a user might want to set it up as.
 
 

  Yes! Absolutely! 100% right on! The Asius people aren't very good at explaining what they've really got. If I were to take a stab it, I would say this:
 
1. In the pursuit of creating the highest fidelity IEM in the world we had a stunning insight: the mere act of inserting an IEM creates an air bubble in the ear canal.
2. This bubble pre-stresses the eardrum, which makes the eardrum more nonlinear than it already is, degrading SQ, AND creating ear fatigue that will ruin your hearing in the long term.
3. After many years of research, we came up with the magic ADEL diaphragm, which eliminates the bubble, AND allows you to vary the bass level to tune the sound profile to your liking.

Ok, there's alot to address here...
 
It's not the trapped pressure within your ear canal that is the problem, you need that seal to provide bass. That's why if you don't have it, there's just no low end. There have been IEMs with open ports and filters for years, that's nothing new. It was just a trade off, port for ambient outside noise and a wider sound stage, at the cost of bass. 
 
Speakers move like pistons, moving air and creating pressure and sound (balanced armatures work like billows to start a fire, so the diaphragm move up and down rather than out and in). That's no worries, until you seal that in the ear. Now the pressure has no where to go, other than your ear drum. That pressure is biasing your ear drum, so it's not able to be sensitive to sound like it should be, much like somebody trying to weigh themselves and somebody putting their foot on the scale without you knowing it. That the speakers are also fighting against the pressure, so they aren't able to work to their full potential. That pressure on your ear drum is also triggering your acoustic reflex, which turns down your bodies volume to protect you from loud noises. When your ear isn't sealed, that typically triggers around 80db, but when you seal something in your ear that trigger point drops to around 60db. Your body turns down your volume without telling you, then when you go "hey this doesn't sound as loud as it did when I first started listening..." you turn it back up. It's a vicious cycle, that's what burns out your ears.
 
This is where ADEL comes in. It's a membrane that is more compliant than your actual ear drum, so it absorbs that pressure. This allows your ear drum to listen the way it's supposed to, rather than being biased and bombarded by the pressure. The speakers are able to work like they're supposed to. As well as you no long get audio fatigue and get the urge to just take a break after an extended listening period. All while maintaining the seal, so you still get the bass response like a sealed IEM. You're able to control the amount of bass response, but also shift the mid range to your liking by tensioning the membrane.
 
 

  Wow.  A Cardas A8 driver as an oem.  That's impressive.  In terms of overall cost, you save from not having to buy an amp as I found it very efficient.  Just wished it had a little more treble extension when I owned it.  I'm wondering if the added BA will fill in the void, but cuts off before sibilance kicks in.  I'm on the fence between Level 4 and 5, but I think I'll wait until impressions rolls as I was hoping for a little more early adopters discount from msrp.  Also, the housing looks like it'll stick pretty far out, which I'm not too keen about.

The Drum does stick out a fair bit. Part of that is due to the size, but also because we actually encourage a more shallow insertion of the ear tip. It's more comfortable and allows the sound stage to be a fair bit wider. I usually get the best results by positioning them as far out as I can while still maintaining a seal.

 

[Canyon Runner]

I might be from Level 1-3 depending on how smart I am with my savings this month.

I don't think a normal 10mm transducer will be too bad because if its still tuned proficiently, i think it can trump a looooooot of BA IEMs.

The user tunes the Drum. You're able to control the bass and mid range by simply adjusting the tension of the membrane.
 
 

If this is the A8 driver, this could be one hell of an IEM for the price. The A8 is one of my favourite sounding in-ears (feel free to check out my review on head gear to see exactly how much I liked the sound), but it was very heavy and not really portable.

If the ADEL tech can fine tune the sound as well as the other benefits it brings, this could definitely shake up the single DD landscape.

Torn between backing the DD only and the additional Empire Ears style hybrid - heard a lot of good things about Jack Vang's creations, but one off the selling points of the A8 for me was the clean and practically distortion free sound, so not sure I want to add a point of failure to that design with an extra BA just to get some sparkle...

There isn't an Empire Ears version. We had originally talked with Dean from Empire about picking the best BAs for the hybrid setup, but things have shifted since then. But even then, there was never an Empire version.
 
 

  Tempted to back this since Flare has gone full silence on their next campaign. Had A8 and thought they were quite good for the price, but I've never been a basshead and they were barely over the limit of my tolerance (and I preferred R2 anyway) so I had to sell them. Adding ADEL modules might just be what it needed for me.
 
Will be keeping an eye on this. I need level 4 perk but with cable without mic though, any way to ask them for it?

I'm pretty sure Level 3 is the same thing, just without the mic cable. I'm not 100% on where things landed on that, but that was also the real difference between the levels. 3 different speaker configurations, then levels of with and without mic cables.
 
 

  Thanks, I watched the video's now. I just don't understand who will make the IEM? Is it Asius that produces also the IEM? Also some levels do not offer the "early bird price" like the other levels. For example level 1 has 2 prices, but level 6 has only one price and no early bird pricing. 
Too bad there is no option available to make the IEM custom to fit your own ear perfectly. 

These are not IEMs, they are earbuds.
Yes only some levels offer an early bird special.
 
 
 

  chupa : I understand how you feel since this campaign is not a same style as the previous one. You may hope for multi-BA drivers, mightn't you? If I had never seen Venture Guy comments, I still would have been doubtful. There is no specification of each model likes 20-20Khz, 32Ohm, etc. In previous campaign, we can know sound signature of each models by comparing with previous series of them.

The reason there is no spec sheet is because we're still fine tuning the designs, but even then, spec sheets don't really tell you much in reality.
I had gone over brief overviews of the sound signatures a while back in the Empire thread, again, not knowing this thread was a thing. 
Really though, because the sound signature changes so drastically with how the user tunes it and customizes the Drum (with upcoming bits), there isn't a way to really describe them concretely.
 
But as a rough outline:
 
The 10mm speaker's real party trick is the bass. If the user wants, it's capable of ALOT of bottom end. More than I am able to get out of our set of LCD4s at the lab. The mids are clear and sound natural, I have had one person (a self admitted treble-nut) say he wanted more treble, but that's kinda it.
 
The Cardas speaker is super smooth, very crisp and clear. I have yet to get as much bass out of it as the 10mm speaker, but it's close. We're in the home stretch this weekend fine tuning with that speaker.
 
We haven't really been focusing on the hybrid setup as of yet. Have to bang out the Cardas to be just perfect, before crossing that bridge. So I can't really comment on it, we have done a few variations in the past with the 10mm speaker and it really added a good bit to treble and top end.
 

That is from Steve Lebischak on the other post

This was actually taken from a PM from me. Steve L is our CEO. I'm the director of operations for the company and as of right now, I'm the only one that posts on head-fi. Just to clear that up.
 
 

How is the treble vs the bass? It seems like the dynamic driver bass is awesome? Would the treble be rolled off? Thanks

It really depends on how you tune the membrane. The treble is a bit smoothed though.

  Thank you for the explanation. I'm thinking of getting these or Zeus R ADEL.. haha, a big difference in price, but ADEL Drums have the better ADEL modules for sure in the previous explanations.. For the price, these are much much cheaper.. but will there be a difference in sound quality? A 14 vs 1 driver... (well, 2 since I will get the dynamic + AB driver)

There is no comparison between the Drum and the Zeus ADEL. I have been working on the Drum for about 6 months now and also have a pair of the Zeus ADELs. They are nothing alike. 
 
One is an earbud with alot of tuning capabilities. The other is what I feel to be the best in-ear-monitor on the market. They're apples and oranges. 
 
The Zeus is a micro detailed monster, incredibly accurate and clear. The Drum is a much smoother sound via the dynamic driver. Their only real similarity is that both has VAST soundstages, since both are using ADEL.

 

[Canyon Runner]

Ok guys. It's been along day, going on 12 hours and it's Friday. I'll come back to do the last 2 pages of questions in the morning, but I need a break. You can probably tell by my answers getting shorter, but I wanted to answer as many people as I could before having to stop.
 
Hope that helps though.

 

[Venture Guy]

  Ok guys. It's been along day, going on 12 hours and it's Friday. I'll come back to do the last 2 pages of questions in the morning, but I need a break. You can probably tell by my answers getting shorter, but I wanted to answer as many people as I could before having to stop.
 
Hope that helps though.

Deleted...

 

[sodesuka]

  I'm pretty sure Level 3 is the same thing, just without the mic cable. I'm not 100% on where things landed on that, but that was also the real difference between the levels. 3 different speaker configurations, then levels of with and without mic cables.

According to the fact sheet on your campaign page, level 3 has a 'high-impact plastic grille' while level 4 has an 'aerospace aluminum grille'. AFAIK, there's no perk with the 11mm driver, micless cord, and the aluminum grille. Unless you give both the micless cord and the mic cord on level 4, could we get that cleared up?

 

[elnero]

  Why are you acting as though we, the CONSUMERS, are putting you out? You announced this thing almost two weeks ago with a virtually content-free Indiegogo campaign. If it weren't for my efforts to explain to the best of my ability, there would have been nothing for audiophiles to go on. We ARE after all AUDIOPHILES, and, as such, require a LOT more information than the average knucklehead musician. Since you claim in the headline of the campaign that you are an audiophile product, the stuff you have written tonight SHOULD have been in the original campaign. Everybody is confused because YOU did not provide the proper information from the get go.

 
WOW! That's pretty rude and uncalled for. I didn't take his messages that way at all. As soon as he found out about this thread he rushed over to check it out and answer as many questions, in as much detail as possible. Should the campaign have more info? For sure, but probably the biggest annoyance is that there's no way to ask questions via Indiegogo unless you've contributed. Personally, I think now that there's a place to have questions answered is great and I appreciate the efforts to answer each and every one.

 

[Venture Guy]

   
WOW! That's pretty rude and uncalled for. I didn't take his messages that way at all. As soon as he found out about this thread he rushed over to check it out and answer as many questions, in as much detail as possible. Should the campaign have more info? For sure, but probably the biggest annoyance is that there's no way to ask questions via Indiegogo unless you've contributed. Personally, I think now that there's a place to have questions answered is great and I appreciate the efforts to answer each and every one.

I apologize for offending your sensibilities...

 

[twister6]

 

  Ok guys. It's been along day, going on 12 hours and it's Friday. I'll come back to do the last 2 pages of questions in the morning, but I need a break. You can probably tell by my answers getting shorter, but I wanted to answer as many people as I could before having to stop.
 
Hope that helps though.

Why are you acting as though we, the CONSUMERS, are putting you out? You announced this thing almost two weeks ago with a virtually content-free Indiegogo campaign. If it weren't for my efforts to explain to the best of my ability, there would have been nothing for audiophiles to go on. We ARE after all AUDIOPHILES, and, as such, require a LOT more information than the average knucklehead musician. Since you claim in the headline of the campaign that you are an audiophile product, the stuff you have written tonight SHOULD have been in the original campaign. Everybody is confused because YOU did not provide the proper information from the get go.

 
Please, speak for yourself, unless you mean it as a royal "we"

  This IGG campaign has as much info as any other typical crowdfunding campaign I have seen.  It geared toward different consumers, from non-audiophile to audio enthusiast and up to full audiophiles.  Sometimes, too much in depth details can confuse general consumer, and that's where Head-fi forum comes into play.  This thread wasn't started by @Canyon Runner, but rather another head-fier, and indeed it generated a number of questions which I guess you tried to answer as well (kudos to you).  Steve (Canyon) didn't get any notifications from this thread thus was only able to chime in later.  And I think he did his best to answer a lot of questions and even apologized for not covering every single one due to his 12 hour work day.
 
I have no idea why you snapped at him in a first place, but please don't speak for "all of us" since others actually appreciate him taking his time to reply and accepted his apology for a delay in joining this thread.