[dmt1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt And how do you convince dmt1 that this is not just another conspiracy where Sensa put way better drivers in the universal fitting models, just to sell the inferior custom mold?

Well, even with better drivers, I doubt a universal fit phone would sound as good as a custom IEM--I'm not expecting the universal fit Sensa's to sound great, that wouldn't be fair, I'm just interested in their sound signature--and even this is probably at best going to be a crude estimation, since the seal should be significantly different between the custom and universal fit. I'll check with my audiologist. It's just more out of curiosity than anything else (If the UE10's work out--if they don't, I'd consider the Sensa's, but after the UE5C's, I'd want to get an idea of their sound signature first if at all possible).

Again, I'll be interested to see Iamdone's impression of how accurate the Sensa's universal fit vs custom fit is; especially the bass.

And Toaster, I take absolutely none of this personally, nor nearly as seriously as some of you think....These are only canalphones. BUT, the fact remains that UE is portrayed poorly, whereas Sensa can do no wrong. I have always maintained both are great companies--I have not slammed Senaphonics--it's not me getting "emotional" about one particular company or another--I just want to see a level playing field. And when I've got my canalphone issues figured out (which will hopefully and mercifully be soon), I'll quit posting here , as only one opinion seems desired on these forums. Besides, life is short and I'd rather listen to music.

 

[raisin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman On almost daily basis there's UE slagging from Lindrone and UE's users slagging as well. From time to time we read that UE-10 full soft is crap (or a joke), that UE users have been brainwashed, that we fell prey to marketing hype, that we have been brainwashed by UE's marketing. Any positive point UE users bring to the discussion is quickly dismissed. Extra bass performance on very low frequencies? Unimportant. Flatter frequency response? Unimportant. No matter there are very different opinions on the subject. Whole threads get opened just to "prove" that flat frequency is unimportant. The metal box accompanying UEs can be bought at Fry's (personalized with your name?), so that's crap as well. Another guy from another site prefers UE-5c to Sensas, who cares? He's not Lindrone, so it doesn't count. I ask clarifications from Sensa, now that they appear to be on the forums? Why do I do it? I already have had everything properly explained to me by Lindrone. I get reprimanded because I ask questions on a forum to a company's representative. Is this a joke or what? But we have our interests to protect, so we'd better keep our mouth shut. For all I care about the money I invested in UEs, if I lived in the States I would already have ordered a pair of Sensas. I can't do it because I don't want to throw away money just for import tax. But the real problem starts when I read things like "they've spent their money in the wrong place, especially one that they can't recoup." Yes I have a problem with this arrogant attitude. Not because I'm protective of the money I spent. Just because of the arrogance implied. Again, Lindrone, I suggest you ask for your review at the top to be changed. Anybody who has chosen UE-10 over 2X-S has spent their money in the wrong place, right? Well, adapt your review to say so. It's misleading of the real judgement you have about the two products.

Let me save Lindrone the bother, and reply to this cranky post for him.

Watching this imbroglio develop from the beggining, I have seen biased and self-important voices attack and disparage Lindrone's experienced opinions without any informed or articulate content. Of course, his patience has been sorely tried, and his posts reflect this. And yet his determination to counterpose mis-informed or wrong-headed opinions from becoming song and verse on what should be a learned and definitive forum remains undimmed.
As such, Lindrone has become a lightning rod for stogy and intolerant minds, who believe that an argument made is an argument won, irrespective of content or standing.
An old political adage says, If you can't dispute an argument, attack the person. Slay the messenger. If you can't raise your argument to the level of intelligent and polite discourse, hold your tongue untill you can.

 

[toaster]

you know, if lindrone and i can voice our opinions in favor of shure and sensa, anyone else can just as easily voice their opinions for any other company.

and all i ever said about ue was that i was not the biggest fan of their advertising. do i think it is obnoxious? yeah. do i think it impacted my decision on purchasing ue's? yeah. is it my opinion? yeah. is it ok to say this here? i don't really know.

never ONCE, did i make a single comment regarding the "superiority" of sensas to the ue or any other product, (other than my assuming it will be a "step up" from the e5's, which i still love.) why should i, as i have never heard them. and anyone else that hasn't heard them truly is just being silly speculating.

in all fairness, i do think lindrone's comment about "spending money in the wrong place" may have not been the best choice of words, however he does take a lot of flak, mainly from people that have no backing for their comments. (ie. people who do not have both earphones in front of them. and you just can not argue with a man who does...and even then he is solely expressing his opinion. plus i do believe him when he says the sensas soft version are softer.) so it is understandable how he can be frusturated and slip up and say something that perhaps was a little rude.

anyway, the same trend continues in the forums of head-fi and it is always interesting to watch how people act, whether or not they have a basis for doing so. fascinating.

all this talk about these high end canalphones is making my ears itch like crazy for a listen...

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisin And yet his determination to counterpose mis-informed or wrong-headed opinions from becoming song and verse on what should be a learned and definitive forum remains undimmed.

I'd be very curious as to what mis-informed and wrong-headed opinions I could have brought to this forum. I quoted facts in my "cranky" post. Everything I've posted happened here.
Quote:

As such, Lindrone has become a lightning rod for stogy and intolerant minds, who believe that an argument made is an argument won, irrespective of content or standing.

I don't believe to be neither intolerant nor stogy. And I didn't resort to name calling for the sake of it.
Quote:

An old political adage says, If you can't dispute an argument, attack the person. Slay the messenger. If you can't raise your argument to the level of intelligent and polite discourse, hold your tongue untill you can.

What the heck are you talking about? In several occasions I discussed with Lindrone in intelligent and polite ways. I haven't been the one to declare that UE users had been brainwashed by somebody's marketing. I haven't been the one to declare that people have spent their money in the wrong place. And yet you are telling *me* to hold my tongue. Go figure...

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 in all fairness, i do think lindrone's comment about "spending money in the wrong place" may have not been the best choice of words, however he does take a lot of flak, mainly from people that have no backing for their comments. (ie. people who do not have both earphones in front of them. and you just can not argue with a man who does...and even then he is solely expressing his opinion. plus i do believe him when he says the sensas soft version are softer.) so it is understandable how he can be frusturated and slip up and say something that perhaps was a little rude.

Toaster22, you say Lindrone's been taking a lot of flak. The flak began when he attacked Ultimate Ears as a company, even before receiving their product. Then he received it late and he attacked UE again (notwithstanding the fact that, as I supposed, they ended up giving him back the money for the shipping costs, which he later reported). At that point somebody (myself included) suggested that he was going to write a biased review.

He didn't write one and I promptly stated that. But after the review there's been a continuing stream of remarks on Sensas superiority. So much so that this is not the first time that I suggest he modifies his original review, as it's quite obvious that what he wrote doesn't reflect his current thought, after having had more time with both products. Bear this in mind, I'm proposing that he worsens his judgement on UE-10 in his review, not the opposite.

What I object to now, and what I objected to in the past, is when Lindrone starts making assumptions based on the fact that *he* prefers the sound signature of 2X-S. Now whoever has bought IEMs different from 2X-S have spent their money wrongly, I wonder what will come next...

 

[toaster]

lindrone has said some things that may have been over the top in his recent posts about the sensas and ues, but it's always still only his opinion.

it isn't lindrone's fault that he writes so much and so well. if someone disagrees just step up and say so. i do think he's said some things that, if i were in your position gor, i might be pissed at. but again, it is just his opinion.

i said i do not like ue's advertising. that is a fact, because i do not like it. lindrone told us the 2X-S's are softer than the UE softs. this can be considered an opinion if necessary, but it's pretty unlikely it is just an opinion, especially after he showed it to iamdone who clearly shared lindrone's feelings. At this point, rationality should kick in and it should be realized that the 2X-S's are in fact softer. This is simply a HUGE factor in my personal decision to go with the 2X-S's.

i like sensaphonics advertisements better than ue's. i like sensas soft offering more than the ue's soft model, due to the fact that the sensas are made of silicone. i like the look of the clear 2X-S better in the ear than that of the ue-10. i like the craftsmanship based on the pictures better of the sensaphonics, especially the cord split, where the ue has a "v" shape where the sensaphonics just looks much cleaner. my experience with sensaphonics on the phone, by email and in person has been exceptional from a business standpoint. does this mean i would not have had (or you did not have) a good experience dealing with ue? of course not. however, considering the advertising and product offerings of ue and sensaphonics, the choice was simple for me. i chose sensaphonics because they had what i was looking for and their advertising didn't turn me off. if these comments help other people realize they want sensaphonics, that's super. if they don't, that's super too.

as far as any business goes, whether it be one in the audio world or not, appealing advertising and appealing products are always a winning combination. i find sensaphonics advertising and top-of-the line offering MORE APPEALING than that of ue.

do you?

 

[random person]

Well, lindrone's UE10s may be collecting dust, but not nearly as much dust as if they had been made from that sticky Sensa material!

Those photos of those icky sticky linty earphones made my skin crawl -- they look like something from the darkest corner of my garage.

Now before all you Sensa fans start responding with justifiable outrage -- my point is simply this: this kind of silly tirade is what the UE buyers have been putting up with for months now. And then, when we come to the defense of a company we admire, we are attacked yet again.

Personally, I could care less what anybody buys, plays with, enjoys, hates, throws away, listens to, sleeps with. Frankly, I don't understand why anybody cares about any of this stuff. But I also don't like to see companies slandered for no good reason.

Brand preference is a subtle and tricky business. For the same reason why you would not like the "you can be a rock star too" positioning of Ultimate Ears, you might be turned off by the "we are hearing aid people" from Sensaphonics. I for one did not want to feel like I was buying a hearing aid, or for that matter buying something that looked like one. I didn't go on and on about it on this site, however, since it is not relevant. And just because I haven't heard the Sensas doesn't mean that my UE5cs suck and I only like them because I don't know any better. I didn't test drive 100 vehicles before I bought my BMW and I love it just the same! And frankly, who cares?

Seems to me a lot of people on this board need to gain some perspective and frankly resume their lives. lindrone should not care if some of us are misguided enough to buy Ultimate Ears products. Nor should UE enthusiasts care what he thinks. Ultimate Ears has 75% of the market for these items, overwhelmingly fueled by professional musicians. While lindrone may relish every chance he gets to trash them and may well imagine he is impacting their business, he is not. To imagine otherwise is just plain silly. This is a message board, pure and simple, and lindrone is not Moses with a list of the ten best headphones. He's another poster on the forum, that's it.

Frankly I think we should rename this forum from head-fi to headcase. At least then relative newcomers like myself would know what we were getting into.

 

[toaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person Well, lindrone's UE10s may be collecting dust, but not nearly as much dust as if they had been made from that sticky Sensa material! Those photos of those icky sticky linty earphones made my skin crawl -- they look like something from the darkest corner of my garage.

that's the kind of stuff i want to hear. Express your opinions!!!

 

[random person]

Ha! I thought you'd like that one!

When are you getting your Sensas?

 

[toaster]

early-mid next week.

 

[random person]

I bet you're gonna love them!

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person Well, lindrone's UE10s may be collecting dust, but not nearly as much dust as if they had been made from that sticky Sensa material! Those photos of those icky sticky linty earphones made my skin crawl -- they look like something from the darkest corner of my garage.

I think the pictures may be misleading. The sensa are not sticky at all. I think they are coated with something to make them slick. If softness matter to you, then the sensa are clear winner. But if it doesn't, I didn't see anything wrong with the make of the ue-10. They looked well made to me.

I personally liked the look of the ulimate ears website better. More information, prices, and a bold approach. I wasn't sure if the sensaphonics would sound good with recorded material and the site did not seem to be marketing to consumers at all. Since I am not musician, I would have passed on their product.

I also wanted to go with the ue-10 just because lindrone didn't like them as much. We seemed to disagree about taste in the past, so I figured this would be no different. He's actually comes off really nice in person. Maybe he was on a debate team or something. I figured that even though he can be opionated, he's honest so I could trust his judgement on testing which one sounded more like my hd650/zu. The sensaphonics won but he did stay they sound very close to the ue-10 in my setup.

I was still I little worried I'm might be making the wrong decision (soundwise) by going with the sensas but the universal sample put my worries aside. So even though it looks like I'll be completely happy with the sensas, it doesn't reflect badly upon the ue-10. I didn't get to hear them, so I have no opinion other than the feel.

 

[toaster]

Here's a quote i found on ue's website...interesting.

Mindy Harvey: "the custom fit allows the earbuds to be made from hard plastic that is better able to resist dirt and earwax than the soft material used by other companies. It also improves the headphones' sound. You really have to create a good feel in the ear to get optimum audio quality."

 

[random person]

Hi toaster -- I believe Welly Wu switched from the softer version of the UE to the full-hard acrylic for that reason. He's a bit of a wax-head and was told that keeping hard acrylic clean was easier than with the softer material.

iamdone -- I hope you know that I was exaggerating the icky sticky comment just to make a point about the tone and manner of some of the posts around here concerning UE. The photo of the black ones shows an enormous amount of lint, however, so I would be concerned about the Sensas being a lint magnet even if they aren't sticky!

I'm sure you will love them. I almost bought them myself except for an incredibly bad experience with their recommended audiologist, who blew off my appointment claiming I had the wrong day -- when in fact the day they had written down for me was a Monday, and I am never in the Boston area on Mondays! Plus her office was in a combination OB/GYN/Otolaryngology ear nose throat clinic that was jammed with people. A thoroughly awful experience and it just turned me off. You'd think Sensaphonics would have more than one recommended audiologist in the greater Boston area, and that it would be in a professional audiology practice. For UE I just looked in the phone book and had a thoroughly professional experience -- go figure. This is of course all just plain bad or good luck and has nothing to do with how the phones sound.

I don't think it matters at all that you are unable to audition all the competing phones. As long as you like the ones you get -- that's all that matters. That goes for all the happy UE owners too! And it applies to happy drivers of automobiles in blissful ignorance of every other car in the class of what they are driving, to the meal I have in a restaurant without first tasting everything else on the menu, you name it. What matters is that YOU like what YOU buy for YOUR musical preferences. Nothing else matters in the least.

Enjoy them!

 

[Zoide]

When you're getting the ear impressions done, how does the audiologist deal with earwax? Would the smallest bit of it result in imperfect molds and subsequent seal/etc problems?