[toaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone So, since this is about as personal of an attack as one can make without mentioning names, thought I may as well respond, no? Yup, of course I do...

just got home from work and wow! my baby of a thread has grown into a big fat angry monster!

i started reading from the first new post...right after seeing DMT's thing about "bashing UE" i had to hold myself back from quickly answering back in a new post so i could finish reading all the posts after his.

Glad to see that Lindrone's got my [and his] back.

I talked about how seeing UE's website turned me off...which it did A LOT. When i see companies act in this type of fashion (apple too, good GOD i hate apple) it makes me feel sorry for the people who work at these ethically-challeged institutions.

sorry i offended you by telling you how i feel about businesses. jeez, give the kid a break! AND YOU KNOW UE's website is a joke. lol.

Truly, the inablility by some members to NOT TAKE OFFENSE to personal opinions is, well incredulous.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Did you even see about a trade down to the ue-5c. My guess is they won't do it because of the long wait but it's worth a try.

I'm still thinking over it. I suppose I should shoot off an email to UE just for the sake of it to see if they're willing to do that. I guess my main motivation for keeping the UE-10 around is really showing people, "Hey look, this is UE-10 with full-soft, and it's crap they even try to compare this to the silicone material. This is the build quality of the 2X-S, just look at it." Of course, build quality is a different matter than sound, if you like a particular sound, you'll put up with the crap build quality (just look at Grado headphones, right?). However, it is still a point to be made, and a hard point to establish until a person really has seen both with their own eyes.

On top of that, I think more people will eventually be interested in UE-10 versus 2X-S more, after all, they're both the top offering by both company. Although the comparison between a lower-end and higher-end product will be very, very useful... I just don't know if I want to trade in my $500 to do that, you know?


Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 Truly, the inablility by some members to NOT TAKE OFFENSE to personal opinions is, well incredulous.

Not to mention if you ever dare to tell someone that they've spent their money in the wrong place, especially one that they can't recoup.

 

[toaster]

you know, at this point having you find a product YOU (lindrone) like, would be very beneficial for UE.

Maybe you will like the UE-5c's better.

head-fi is a bastion for people searching to find the next headphone company to toss their wallets at in an effort to find audio bliss. your opinions are quite important as very few people are as willing to buy and write about so much equipment.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone I'm still thinking over it. I suppose I should shoot off an email to UE just for the sake of it to see if they're willing to do that. I guess my main motivation for keeping the UE-10 around is really showing people, "Hey look, this is UE-10 with full-soft, and it's crap they even try to compare this to the silicone material. This is the build quality of the 2X-S, just look at it."

You do have a point. In pictures they look the same but it's when you feel them you see the real difference. Just to point out that the ue-10 material is not crap but just crap to compare the softness to the soft 2x. The ue-10 was bigger, weighed more, and definately harder even on the so called soft side. The soft 2x was just soft silcone. Go to hardware store and get some clear soft silicone gel and you'll get the idea. You could squeeze and bend the stem. I haven't worn them yet, so I don't know how this will relate to my ears. Lindrone did show how it was easier to remove the soft 2x because of it's ability to get under it and grab hold when removing.

My main reason the softness important is I do want to use these laying on my side so the softer the better. They also were flush with the ear. The ue-10 sticks out just a little bit more and that could be a factor.

 

[toaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 Truly, the inablility by some members to NOT TAKE OFFENSE to personal opinions is, well incredulous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone Not to mention if you ever dare to tell someone that they've spent their money in the wrong place, especially one that they can't recoup.

how true indeed.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 how true indeed.

I don't really think these people spent money in the wrong place if they're happy with there current product. Maybe one's better than the other, maybe not, but if you happy with what you got, don't worry about it. It only sucks for the ones who are dissatisfied.

 

[plainsong]

What is it about IEM's that gets people sooooooo angry? I've noticed that the more angrier types in these threads don't even have either product in question, and they also don't post much in other threads. But bring up IEM's and it's time for war. Why is that?

UE was very nice to me, Sensa was slow to respond because I caught them on vacation. But when I got a response they were also very nice. Both companies have different approaches and both think their way is best, which is how it should be. So for those that don't like the approach of one company has the choice of the other. Why does that get people so angry? We need the competition. Can you imagine if there was only Sennheiser or only Grado? That would suck..

So if you've bought an IEM then of course you think yours is the best, and for your ears maybe they are. But can't there be rational discussions of the differences without personal attacks? I know I'm probably getting blank looks on this concept.

Oh well, most of the IEM-War crowd hates me anyway, I guess I'll shut up now.

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I don't really think these people spent money in the wrong place if they're happy with there current product. Maybe one's better than the other, maybe not, but if you happy with what you got, don't worry about it. It only sucks for the ones who are dissatisfied.

I think so too.

 

[raisin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone The soft 2x was just soft silcone. Go to hardware store and get some clear soft silicone gel and you'll get the idea. You could squeeze and bend the stem. I haven't worn them yet, so I don't know how this will relate to my ears. Lindrone did show how it was easier to remove the soft 2x because of it's ability to get under it and grab hold when removing.

This was of particular concern in my choice of CMIEM, and now that I have my prophonic's I cringe at the thought of removing my mold's in a hard material. I'm getting better at the twisting contortions required to in/uninstall them, but a little the wrong way, and...

 

[toaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong What is it about IEM's that gets people sooooooo angry? I've noticed that the more angrier types in these threads don't even have either product in question, and they also don't post much in other threads. But bring up IEM's and it's time for war. Why is that?

So true and so amusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong UE was very nice to me, Sensa was slow to respond because I caught them on vacation. But when I got a response they were also very nice. Both companies have different approaches and both think their way is best, which is how it should be. So for those that don't like the approach of one company has the choice of the other. Why does that get people so angry? We need the competition. Can you imagine if there was only Sennheiser or only Grado? That would suck.

I am a person, and i am dissatisfied with UE's marketing. Can the CREATOR of this thread be entitled to have opinions and speak his mind?

Besides, it didn't get me angry how UE advertised, i just didn't buy their product. it got OTHER people...ANOTHER person...ok..DMT angry when he realized he owned a UE product, and someone had an opinion that was other than godly of the company that took all his money. you think i am gonna care what anyone else says about sensa once i get my 2X-S's? For me, even before i receive the finished product, i can already say that this may have been the best business experience of my life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong So if you've bought an IEM then of course you think yours is the best, and for your ears maybe they are. But can't there be rational discussions of the differences without personal attacks? I know I'm probably getting blank looks on this concept.

It's ignorant and immature to think something is the best just because it's yours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong Oh well, most of the IEM-War crowd hates me anyway, I guess I'll shut up now.

i don't hate you.

Man, this thread was so boring without all the flames. i like it hot.

 

[iamdone]

Everyone needs to calm down. It's not about getting the best, it's getting the best for you. Everyone has different needs and tastes.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong What is it about IEM's that gets people sooooooo angry? I've noticed that the more angrier types in these threads don't even have either product in question, and they also don't post much in other threads. But bring up IEM's and it's time for war. Why is that?

I think IEM is just a relatively new and immature market compared to other headphones. Headphones has a much longer history, and more established wide-spread opinion and such.

When I joined Head-Fi, barely anyone used anything other than Ety ER-4 as their high-end canalphone. Of course canalphones such as the EX71 doesn't even factor into the equation. Just bringing Shure E5c into the light of the general public on this forum was a painful process. Nevertheless they have their fans and what nots, but now it's more or less accepted that Shure E5c is here to stay. Even then, heated conversation often comes up relating to the merits of the cans... no more or less than the age old "Grado versus Sennheiser, or "CD3000 versus HD650"... so on.. so forth.

Custom IEM is even more of a guarded topic, well.. unlike anything and everything else in the hi-fi world.. it is literally the only single item that can't be resold if one doesn't find it worthy or wants to upgrade. Of course everyone goes out of their way of defending their emotion rather than rationality. Then they'll rationalize why they feel emotional about it.

 

[plainsong]

Toaster, you are a horrible person for daring to dislike UE's approach, I hearby personally attack you with a wet noodle!

There, our first flame. Now it feels more like home when we talk about IEM's.

There are lots of pro-UE threads, and so if a few people prefer Sensa, that does not automatically a conspiracy make. And in Lindrone's defense, he does actually have both pairs, and there's only one other member who can say that, but with little credibility IMO.

It doesn't make his word law, it just means his opinion, or bias if you wanna call it that, has some physical and aural merit. But this comes with the disclaimer that another person could have both and just as easily prefer the UE's.

edit - I'll add here that if I were onstage, I think I'd prefer forward vocals. But offstage, I most definately would not, not the way Lindrone describes it, and he's pretty good at describing things.

 

[toaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone ...everyone goes out of their way of defending their emotion rather than rationality. Then they'll rationalize why they feel emotional about it.

well said.

it's too bad the people just worried about defending their emotions are acting too irrationally to understand the validity of this statement.

 

[gorman]

On almost daily basis there's UE slagging from Lindrone and UE's users slagging as well.

From time to time we read that UE-10 full soft is crap (or a joke), that UE users have been brainwashed, that we fell prey to marketing hype, that we have been brainwashed by UE's marketing.

Any positive point UE users bring to the discussion is quickly dismissed.

Extra bass performance on very low frequencies? Unimportant.

Flatter frequency response? Unimportant. No matter there are very different opinions on the subject. Whole threads get opened just to "prove" that flat frequency is unimportant.

The metal box accompanying UEs can be bought at Fry's (personalized with your name?), so that's crap as well.

Another guy from another site prefers UE-5c to Sensas, who cares? He's not Lindrone, so it doesn't count.

I ask clarifications from Sensa, now that they appear to be on the forums? Why do I do it? I already have had everything properly explained to me by Lindrone. I get reprimanded because I ask questions on a forum to a company's representative. Is this a joke or what?

But we have our interests to protect, so we'd better keep our mouth shut.

For all I care about the money I invested in UEs, if I lived in the States I would already have ordered a pair of Sensas. I can't do it because I don't want to throw away money just for import tax.

But the real problem starts when I read things like "they've spent their money in the wrong place, especially one that they can't recoup." Yes I have a problem with this arrogant attitude. Not because I'm protective of the money I spent. Just because of the arrogance implied.

Again, Lindrone, I suggest you ask for your review at the top to be changed. Anybody who has chosen UE-10 over 2X-S has spent their money in the wrong place, right? Well, adapt your review to say so. It's misleading of the real judgement you have about the two products.