[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman Hi! Assuming the MS in your nick stands for Michael Santucci,

I strongly suspect that it is an amalgum of Julie (JG) and Michael Santucci, (MS) so it can sometimes be one and sometimes the other. But i think posters would have more confidence if they knew exactly who they are talking to.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman Also, how would you explain the rapidly falling frequency response after 3KHz that is shown on the graph posted in this message? Many thanks for your answer.

If that graph is correct, it didn't correspond to what I heard in my test of the universal set. They sound more like the hd650 in the highs. There's no spike like the etys but you hear all the cymbals and other high end detail as well just like my hd650/zu does. When I switched to the etys, the highs were overly bright I guess in the mid-highs, which is not balanced at all. This test sounded nothing like the Shure E5. I choose those to songs to test the vocals and how well it would to with a rock song. Both suceeded. She had another guy waiting to get his molds done, otherwise I would have played around with them some more. I didn't have my amp with me, so I could test that.

Anyway, either the graph is wrong, or this is way it should look for a canalphone. If it right, I'm not a true beliver in not trusting the graph at all and only rely on your ears.

 

[oldblueviffer]

Julie Glick, M.S., F-AAA
is part of her address
some kind of qualification i suspect
ian

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman Hi! Assuming the MS in your nick stands for Michael Santucci, could you, for the sake of clarity, expand on what you meant when you told me that the 2X-S emphasize bass? You mentioned some listeners prefer a flat response but that, in independent studies you conducted, most listeners preferred more bass. Could you expand on how you achieve that?

Errr... bass is bass.. I don't see how hard it is to achieve more bass either way, heck, E5c has more bass (although not as textured or detailed) than either one of them?


Quote:

Also, how would you explain the rapidly falling frequency response after 3KHz that is shown on the graph posted in this message? Many thanks for your answer.

Haven't we already covered this topic before? Here, go read this thread:

http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81897

It'll shed some light on at least a few reason why the flat curve thing is ridiculous.

One of the post applies to the IEM situation direction... and I'll quote it here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcire From the work of E. Shaw, the resonance of the human ear canal was described to have a peak occuring at 2700Hz on average of about 12-15 dB. This is measured in an open ear canal and in reality the open ear canal resonance varies from person to person as does the actual anatomy of each persons ear canal. So each person percives what they hear in the brain as a "flat" or normal resopnse to them. When you close the earcanal with the transcucer as you do in canal phones, the natural resonance is destroyed. At this time what is gone is the average peak in the range around 2700Hz. If the canal phone dosen't compensate for the loss of resonance peak in this region the brain wil precieve something other that "flat". Etymotic and Sensaphonic transducers compensate for this loss of resonance peak so the net result is a "flat" response. You are correct in questioning what type of cavity the frequency response characteristic is measured in. In the hearing aid industry a "hard walled" 2 cc cavity is typical to measure frequency response. We have leqarned that curves generated in this sort of cavity bear no resemblance to how the device will interact with the "real ear". There are several types of couplers used in measure such as the Zwiscloski coupler which tries to emulate the real ear with additional cavities to produce a more "real ear" resonance. So when one looks a published curves of in-ear canal phones the question is: What sort of ear coupler or ear simulator is used. This is all about how a transducer interacts with a closed cavity or tube such as the human ear canal.

Furthermore, part of the testing equipment that UE uses is this thing here:

http://www.bksv.com/1655.asp

It's the ear simulator 4157... if you read the PDF file of the product specification.. it comes with many different fittings to simulate the ear canal, and it was devised to measure & calibrate hearing aids. How such a device interacts with something that's much more complicated, such as a music playback device, is pretty questionable. Basically, there's no established "official" test across the entire IEM industry on how something like this should be conducted. UE can choose to tune their IEM's using such a test, but by no means is this a truly acceptible standard.

 

[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldblueviffer Julie Glick, M.S., F-AAA is part of her address some kind of qualification i suspect ian

Where did you get that from ? !!

It would make more sense if it was Julie as it is she who joined Sensa recently and coincidentally Sensa have since started posting here and giving better email service.

If it was Michael posting, being the CEO, i think he would be less inclined to be anonymous.

Julie rocks ! Julie for president !

 

[dmt1]

Gorman, glad to see you back!

I'm watching this, and it's incredulous. Does someone have an axe to grind with UE?

A thread devoted to the superior workmanship of the Sensa's, based mainly on appearances...

A thread devoted to trashing the UE philosophy on flat FR curves (there are also some replies in that thread that give merit to the approach, but those apparently have been discounted).

Disparaging remarks about their website, based on the fact that they have some positive remarks about their phones on there (aren't they TRYING to sell something????), and have too much information available (apparently the very nice looking but sparse Sensaphonic website is what we should all desire); and the UE prompt response to emails apparently doesn't count for anything--it looks like it all should be done over the phone (which incidentally UE does very well too).

Let's just compare the phones. Some people actually prefer UE5C's to Sensa's, some people actually prefer UE10PRO's to Sensa's, and vice-versa. From reading some of these threads, you'd think the UE's are crap, and the Sensa's are in a league of their own--the gulf continues to widen from Lindrone's initial review at an alarming rate.

I think both are great companies, but it appears there is almost an agenda here trying to steer folks to Sensa. It reminds me of when a certain someone, for all practical purposes, became a spokesman for Shure, and was so intertwined with the company they were sending him free products to trial, all the while maintaining a total lack of bias.

Although the sound signature of the UE5C's isn't what I was after, there were no issues with quality--eq'd, they were the best thing I'd ever heard. We'll see about the UE10PRO's, but I'm not too worried about it.

 

[oldblueviffer]

Quote:

Where did you get that from ? !!

i could tell you but i'd have to kill you

ian



[size=xx-small]Just from email replies actually[/size]

 

[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmt1 Gorman, glad to see you back! I'm watching this, and it's incredulous. Does someone have an axe to grind with UE?.

Well i have already in this thread slagged off Sensa for not having prices on their website and i have praised UE for having prices on website and superb email responses. Is that any good ?

 

[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldblueviffer i could tell you but i'd have to kill you ian [size=xx-small]Just from email replies actually[/size]

Hey Dorset is really a little known county in the UK, honest ! LOL

 

[oldblueviffer]

Wow just had a look at the map and thats waaaaay down south

ian

 

[dmt1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by penbat Well i have already in this thread slagged off Sensa for not having prices on their website and i have praised UE for having prices on website and superb email responses. Is that any good ?

Not talking about you Penbat--despite your disappointment in the UE10's, you've been more than fair.

BTW, I was thinking the other day--would it be reasonable to try a notch filter for you UE10's? It would smooth out the 2-4 k hump; this may make the bass stand out a bit more, at least relative to the vocals and maybe the mids. It should be a matter of simply swapping out the high frequency filter, which shouldn't be a big deal for UE to do--not sure on that though. I realize shipping, etc., is a major hassle for you though--might be worth asking Mindy about though.

 

[penbat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmt1 Not talking about you Penbat--despite your disappointment in the UE10's, you've been more than fair. BTW, I was thinking the other day--would it be reasonable to try a notch filter for you UE10's? It would smooth out the 2-4 k hump; this may make the bass stand out a bit more, at least relative to the vocals and maybe the mids. It should be a matter of simply swapping out the high frequency filter, which shouldn't be a big deal for UE to do--not sure on that though. I realize shipping, etc., is a major hassle for you though--might be worth asking Mindy about though.

Thanks for your idea. I wil have to think about that.

I do get an excellent bass temporairily if i press my UE-10s against my ear with my finger. I am experimenting filing the ends of my bores down a bit which may allow the UE-10s to seat a bit deeper and give better bass. The end of the bores were catching against my ear.

 

[iamdone]

For anyone who's worried about not being happy with the sound of iem's, see if your local audiologist has or can get the universal model just so you can get a taste of what to expect. I don't know if you can do this with the ue models but sensaphonic does make a set just for the audiologist. This way you can have some idea of what you're getting into. I actually tried them on after I had the molds made. I guess if I hated what I heard, I could have stopped the order and only paid the $50 for molds and maybe gone with the ue-10 at that point.

By the way, the bass was a little overwhelming just for the first 10 seconds or so and then it sounded it fine. This is the same effect of trying on the hd650 right after listening to the etys. This was my arguement about the shures that it shouldn't take a full week to force yourself to adjust. It should just take a few minutes at most (or seconds for me) to adjust.

 

[Zoide]

Did the bass feel overwhelming to the point that it was making other stuff feel muffled or simply to the point that it just sounded goooood?

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide Did the bass feel overwhelming to the point that it was making other stuff feel muffled or simply to the point that it just sounded goooood?

When I first put them in I first heard the bass and then rest of the music started to balance out. I only listened to those two songs and for about five minutes total. The bass did not overpower or muffle anything. They really made Led Zeppelin rock. I tried listening to the same Led Zeppelin song today with the etys and tried a couple eq setting and could not get it sound anywhere as good. Everything that should be there was there. Please keep in mind, they were only the universal fit. I'll write an update when I actually get my real heaphones at the end of the month. From what I was told, they should only sound better.

edit: By the way, she said she is getting a lot more people buying them just for headphones. She said it was just about the time the ipod got popular that she started getting requests like these. Before, her only clients were musicians.