[mr_baseball_08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe in the future, if this system has been running well for years for instance without many hiccups if any, perhaps as a part of the contribution fees we could divert funds for headphones. But that is just my personal speculation with nothing having been talked about with Jude. For now, this little venture is organized by me on my own accord without "true" ties with Head-fi. It's nothing official, save that I'm only willing to ship to Head-fi members. I really don't want money floating around between anyone. That gets complicated, troublesome, dangerous and again it leads to entitlement. Someone could donate some cash and feel they deserve to receive a set (let's say they were to be generous and donate $100 because they believed in the programme) then they walk off with the phones. What if the headphones were $1500? They just bought a nice pair of $1500 phones for $100. Not bad. That entitlement would come into play and it would cause problems. So for now, I don't want the idea of paying to support this endevour to be discussed at all. At the very most, any person participating would have to understand they have to pay to ship to the next person. That is the absolute max someone would have to think about in terms of money.

I guess we're thinking on sort of different wavelengths. My idea was a small contribution to a Paypal account after you've demo'ed some headphones and sent them on their way. Money doesn't have to be necessarily "floating around" as it would all go into one Paypal account. This account could have no ties to Head-fi, but would simply serve to perpetuate the program. Also, the idea of paying to borrow would be completely optional and not required to participate in the program. Obviously feedback/posts would still tie into the decision of who gets what as far as high end vs. low end cans. To cite your example one could just as easily walk away with a $1500 pair of headphones for free instead of $100. One could happen as easily as another.

I guess that's pretty much what I meant, but as you've stated in a roundabout way, involving money does complicate things a bit further and provides more paperwork for someone (presumably, you).

So anyway, when are we kicking this off.

I've been wanting to try out some SR-60's for a while now..

 

[Al4x]

hopefully that holds true!

 

[vcoheda]

the spirit of the idea is admirable, but personally i would never loan out any equipment that i would miss terribly if not returned. the best way to try new stuff is to go to meets or borrow from friends.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif the spirit of the idea is admirable, but personally i would never loan out any equipment that i would miss terribly if not returned. the best way to try new stuff is to go to meets or borrow from friends.

That is the key to this...I'm not sending out anything of my own. I'm buying specifically for this purpose pricely so I don't miss anything. If I could trust people outright I'd jump to the more expensive phones right away but I would rather do a run with some cheaper stuff before hitting higher grade items.

 

[krmathis]

Zanth. I like the idea of a loaner program. As long as needed measurement are held to ensure safety of the headphones (selective pricking of the attenders in some way).

I am not sure how to pick out the trusty members.
As pointed out the number of feedbacks and post count are one way. With the backside that its very excluding to those people who have been a well known member for 4-5 years, but only have 26 posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would get hit with the VAT (or the first person receiving them anyway but I would cover them for it) but once in Europe everything should be fine.

Not completely true!
They would most certainly get hit with VAT within Europe, when/if shipped in/out of EU (European Union). Norway and Switzerland that is...

But if declared properly as a loan, with detailed information, it might go through without any issues.

 

[Arrin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh I think there very much is a VAT between each country but if I am correct, once the original point of sale is met, one is merely shipping around a used set of headphones, provided documentation follows the headphones, VAT should be non-existant.

The VAT has to be paid when importing goods that hasn't had the VAT already paid for in one of the countries inside the European Union or EEC. So in this case the VAT would (unless ignored by customs) indeed have to be paid by the first person receiving the parcel from the USA. However after that the parcels don't go through customs when sent from one EU country to another.

So yea, once inside EU its all good. But yea, as krmathis mentioned Norway and Switzerland might be more tricky.

- Arrin

 

[number1sixerfan]

I think this is a very good idea. I really hope the kinks get ironed out so that it can happen. Maybe only contributing members could be apart of it(sorry if it has been mentioned). It would encourage people to become contributors(i need to make the jump lol) and also contributors would probably be less likely to be shady.

GJ Zanth for the idea.

 

[tjohnusa]

A few months ago a member here (can't recall name) did a loaner of an ibasso amp. You had I believe one week with it then forwarded to the next person. You were then furnished that address and away it went. Hopefully they are reading this thread and can give insight as to the success or failure of his program. if I recall they required a post minimum and required you post a review. I am sure the thread can be found.
I sent a set of Senn HD497 I had to a member here that sounded like they wanted to get into this hobby but was short on budget. It cost me $15 to ship and then the guy disappeared....oh well I believe in karma. Good luck with what you decide.

 

[Zanth]

I've been thinking about this a lot more and I'm still in the works on how to set the eligibility. That said, I have received a good amount of feedback here and privately. Among that feedback has been some solid support and advice on how to set this up.

I can't stress enough how lucky I have been to listen to gear from other members. Some people either don't know the right folks to get a listen to the gear they are interested in or are not located in a place where meets are an option. Even the international meets which are no doubt an event I would love to partake in, most (like myself) just can't get there. My problem is mostly financial, but the first year was due to a timing/work commitment. Others fall into the same situation. So a lending programme I think is a great way for people to experience headphones in their home for a short time so they can buy informed. Also, it is a great way for more contributions to the knowledge base of the site. The more impressions the better. This means we get many impressions of headphones with amps and source combinations that we would otherwise not have a chance to read about.

The best part though is that it brings the community closer together.

In the spirit of bringing everyone closer together and seeing this programme through, I have received a very generous offer to help with getting this system off the ground. The offer comes in the way of buying headphones. Though the member wants to remain anoymous, the offer will help balance out the programme early on. I will still start with SR60's because I think it is a safe bet, but now we may have the opporunity to have two sets of RS-1's out there and maybe even GS-1000's.

Because of this generous offer, something I could not have offered the programme for quite some time, there will need to be two lists (not unlike what Headroom had some years ago).

To be eligible to try out the SR60's the rules will be quite a bit less stringent. To try out the RS-1's or GS-1000's, we will have to be careful. This means member posts/feedback/word of mouth. It is not going to be a perfect system. People may meet most of the requirements but I might receive some private messages indicating the person is unreliable. I'll have to fish around for further information etc. Most will benefit, some will inevitably feel shafted. It is the nature of the internet and trust. The community has been burned by members both known and unknown.

To start by May 1st (I think this is doable) I will start making a list. The absolute minimum ruleset is as follows:

1. Full name, home address, home and business phone number and frequently checked email address will be mandatory. If I don't have it, you don't get to try the headphones. I will also be calling the folks prior to authorizing them to receive the headphones.
2. Shipping cost to the next person is absorbed by the current listener, this includes full insurance with signature. For domestic (US/Canada) shipping, we will set up guidelines on couriers. Some suggestions thus far seem very good. I know UPS and FedEx are not only unreliable at times, but they are very expensive, particularly with cross border shipping. To help with this, I may try to setup a US set and a Canadian set of headphones since the vast majority of our members come from these countries. The European headphones will be riskier to manage because well, folks are overseas and shipping between countries more often.
3. Pictures are mandatory. I would like to archive pictures of the package upon receipt, a shot or two of the headphone being unpacked and then some shots of the headphone out of the box. Then the reverse order before shipping them off. It will be one of the only ways we can in some meaningful sense, monitor the condition of the headphones.
4. A posting of one's impressions in a thread designated for each headphone. We all benefit when we can read the impressions of others, please include gear used.
5. Don't take the headphones outdoors. They aren't ordinarly used as portable headphones. Treat them as if they weren't your own but were owned by the Mafia's ace hitman. If you break them, someone is comin' a knockin'. Too often people don't take care of their own stuff, let alone the items of others, so extra care needs to be taken.

I'll work out the other rules in the coming weeks. This programme will only be as good as the members who contribute make it out to be. If someone spoils it early on, I'm going to discontinue it. There are already many folks who are cynical about success rate of this endevor. It might flop, but I hope it doesn't.

 

[Al4x]

i would love to get a go with some rs1s, but im sure membership time will stop me getting that chance, but it is peoples personal stuff so i understand

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al4x /img/forum/go_quote.gif i would love to get a go with some rs1s, but im sure membership time will stop me getting that chance, but it is peoples personal stuff so i understand

Length of membership might exclude you for the time being but it wouldn't indefinitely.

 

[azncookiecutter]

I think another good idea is if there's a few people within a certain range of each other (same city, geological area, etc.), the people participating can always drop them off to the next person locally. When it's time to ship it out, the people participating within that region can all chip in for shipping to the next person.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by azncookiecutter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think another good idea is if there's a few people within a certain range of each other (same city, geological area, etc.), the people participating can always drop them off to the next person locally. When it's time to ship it out, the people participating within that region can all chip in for shipping to the next person.

Yes this is a good idea. I was thinking about the same thing for Europe, where we could have a run in the UK then another in France then Germany etc. Something like that to help with costs. However, I don't think it is fair that if Member A is 4th on the list and Members B C and D are 42nd and 64th on the list, that they automatically get bumped up to 5th and 6th just because they are local. There is no reason folks couldn't get together and listen but I don't like the idea of someone coming in late on the list, meeting the reqs but then jumping high up because someone who caught the thread quite early is next door.

 

[azncookiecutter]

I think then the list cannot be a first-come-first-serve basis, but rather a geographical location based list. Would make sense to have a deadline for apply to the list too, to prevent people from jumping in to the list while the cans are already out on loan to someone.

 

[Al4x]

the worst position is going to be for the person who gets the overseas delivery