[estreeter]

These are the issues Vinnie from Red Wine Audio has identified with the 4G/5G Classic that point to a very poor stock line-out:

Even if you use the very best iPod cable with your stock iPod, you are still not avoiding the serious degradation of sound quality that occurs after the internal DAC. This degradation from the cumulative effects of the following stock components that are directly in the line-out signal path and that were NOT optimized for audiophile use:

* The low quality stock SMT coupling caps after the internal Wolfson (before the stock opamp)
* Opamp output stage
* The low quality stock SMT coupling caps after the opamp output stage
* The minuscule circuit board traces that carries the analog line-out signal
* SMD resistors and inductors directly in the signal path
* The signal path inside the stock iPod dock, which contains: the dock connector plug, a very cheap ribbon cable, more minuscule pcb traces, SMD resistors, and finally the line out jack.

Products > iMod - Red Wine Audio

ALO also has an extensive FAQ on the iMod :

ALO Audio » iMod FAQ

End of the day, I can understand why someone might be willing to invest in the iMod, but a *stock* 4-5.5G iPod from the line-out vs the line-out on the 6G Classic is another matter, and I'm not going to buy a 3 year old DAP simply to be able to answer that question. Vinnie clearly has to do a lot of work to remedy Apple's inherently poor stock design on the earlier iPods, but ALO will sell you one, ready to go, for 650USD (same price as the HiFiMan, if memory serves).

Its at this point that someone like Skylab or HeadphoneAddict will appear out of nowhere with a detailed comparison between the HiFiMan and iMod. Or not. Either way, I'm keeping my 160GB of lossless music.

 

[elfary]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostalex /img/forum/go_quote.gif What headphones did you used?

I used my Shure SE420's.

 

[kostalex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif * The low quality stock SMT coupling caps after the internal Wolfson (before the stock opamp) * Opamp output stage * The low quality stock SMT coupling caps after the opamp output stage * The minuscule circuit board traces that carries the analog line-out signal * SMD resistors and inductors directly in the signal path * The signal path inside the stock iPod dock, which contains: the dock connector plug, a very cheap ribbon cable, more minuscule pcb traces, SMD resistors, and finally the line out jack.

All the attributes above relate to Classic as well, except coupling caps. Lets do not derail SQ discussion to the electronic schematic dispute. Lets talk about what do you hear.

Do you hear the difference between Classic and 5.5 gen yourself? No, you never heard 5.5 gen at all.

In contrary, I did my homework. I ordered two Classics just to compare them with 5.5 gen. I burned them in and spent hours comparing them from HP and LO with different records, headphones, with and without various amps.

I really consider 5.5 gen LO is miles ahead, not in any particular parts of overall SQ, but rather in musicality (ability to convey emotions). Classic is simply boring and uninvolving.

 

[ckturtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostalex /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really consider 5.5 gen LO is miles ahead, not in any particular parts of overall SQ, but rather in musicality (ability to convey emotions). Classic is simply boring and uninvolving.

I agree on the Classic sounding uninvolving. Because of this, I just ordered a refurbed 5.5 80 GB for $179.00, fulfilled by Amazon, and will soon get an opportunity to compare them both.

BTW, I can say definitively that the Westone UM3X's don't sound good (IMO) using the Classic as a source. No warmth what so ever. Yuin PK1's are better suited for this.

 

[estreeter]

kostalex, I think its great that you have the player you want - please stop beating us over the head with it.

I happen to think my X series is the best stock DAP available as a piece of consumer electronics, but I dont feel that need to spank owners of 'inferior' DAPs - in the case of the Classic, 160GB of storage and the upcoming Onkyo transport go a long way to alleviating my pain.

 

[kostalex]

Read my posts carefully. If I ever "beat someone over head" then it is the case when the person is trying to judge the equipment (s)he did not ever listen or trying to replace the SQ discussion topic with hardware implementation subject. This is considered as a bad practice and it deserves "beating".

 

[kostalex]

I am OK if someone will really listen 5.5 gen comparing it to Classic and say then "5.5 gen is real crap - dirty, noisy, blurred and so on".

 

[estreeter]

kostalex, I dont care if the 5.5G is the finest piece of audio on the planet : we have each made our choices and are prepared to live with them - those who audition the 2009 Classic and dont like it have so many options, iPod or otherwise, to choose from that I doubt they will be disappointed for very long.

Do I think Apple can build a better HDD player than the 2009 Classic ? Of course I do, but we have to live with the reality of knowing that they wont take another run at it for 11 or so months : this is the market that Vinnie and Fang have identified and I commend them for being willing to service those of us who want something better.

 

[BBY03evo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostalex /img/forum/go_quote.gif All the attributes above relate to Classic as well, except coupling caps. Lets do not derail SQ discussion to the electronic schematic dispute. Lets talk about what do you hear. Do you hear the difference between Classic and 5.5 gen yourself? No, you never heard 5.5 gen at all. In contrary, I did my homework. I ordered two Classics just to compare them with 5.5 gen. I burned them in and spent hours comparing them from HP and LO with different records, headphones, with and without various amps. I really consider 5.5 gen LO is miles ahead, not in any particular parts of overall SQ, but rather in musicality (ability to convey emotions). Classic is simply boring and uninvolving.

Is the classic you compared the 5G to the new 09 model or older one?

I want to know is there even a difference between the 09 model or the 6gen classic?

I just dropped my 5.5 gen and the HD broke!

...it to is my favorite sounding ipod of all time. So I'm trying to decide between the new classic or a 5th gen again.

 

[kostalex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBY03evo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is the classic you compared the 5G to the new 09 model or older one? I want to know is there even a difference between the 09 model or the 6gen classic?

I tried new 09 Classic. I can not tell you exactly if it is better than previous version. I sold 08 Classic 3-4 months ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBY03evo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just dropped my 5.5 gen and the HD broke! ...it to is my favorite sounding ipod of all time. So I'm trying to decide between the new classic or a 5th gen again.

You may also get new HDD. If your 5.5 gen is fat, then you may upgrade it with 240 GB. It is expensive, but as I calculated before it provides the same $$ per GB ratio as new 09 Classic does.

 

[kostalex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elfary /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used my Shure SE420's.

Well, I do not have 3GS and SE420, so I replaced them with 3G and ER-4P (which have low resistanse similarily to SE420)

1) Comparing 09 Classic to 3G, I can not detect the difference. When I compared 3G to older Classic, 3G was better. So most likely 09 Classic is really upgraded from 08 Classic.

2) Then I tried 09 Classic vs 5.5 gen using ER-4P (I used ER-4S before). The advantages of 5.5 gen are still here, but they are lesser now. I may probably trade them for all of the multiple benefits of the 09 Classic, starting with slimmer design. It seems that 09 Classic yields to 5.5 gen with higher impedance phones (I tried ER-4S and PK1), but almost match 5.5 gen with lower impedance. I would probably try it with some more headphones.

 

[kostalex]

I just thought that impedance is not the reason but the lesser resolution of ER-4P most likely is. EDIT: and warmer signature does help also.

 

[BaadDawg]

My HD went on my 5gen iPod video and I ordered a new HD. Dummy me when I was installing it, I managed to break the battery connector on the MB, ordered a new MB and couldn't get it to work.

Have a new classic 160gb and am happy with it. Also happy with the Sansa Fuze I used for about 6 months after the 5gen crapped out on me.

Wasn't happy with the RE0's though. Sent them back the next day after receiving them because the refund is based on them receiving the returned item 30 days after the date of purchase. It took 2 weeks after the date of purchase to get to me, thus I didn't want to risk them receiving it a few days after 30 days and denying my refund. I prefer my CX500 over the RE0 with both the classic and Fuze.

 

[pez]

Either way, I love the Classic. You guys are arguing over pure opinion. What sounds good is all up to the user. It is weird that some people find the 3GS iPhone to sound very similar to the Classic, yet some people say the Classic is bad and the iPhone 3GS is wonderful...

 

[elfary]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostalex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I do not have 3GS and SE420, so I replaced them with 3G and ER-4P (which have low resistanse similarily to SE420) 1) Comparing 09 Classic to 3G, I can not detect the difference. When I compared 3G to older Classic, 3G was better. So most likely 09 Classic is really upgraded from 08 Classic. 2) Then I tried 09 Classic vs 5.5 gen using ER-4P (I used ER-4S before). The advantages of 5.5 gen are still here, but they are lesser now. I may probably trade them for all of the multiple benefits of the 09 Classic, starting with slimmer design. It seems that 09 Classic yields to 5.5 gen with higher impedance phones (I tried ER-4S and PK1), but almost match 5.5 gen with lower impedance. I would probably try it with some more headphones.

That's where it all boils down to. I even bought an iPhone 3GS to check out cause i could not believe the 09 classic could sound any different to the 08 Classic or being in the same league that the 3GS. Now that i have both i must reckon that i concur with what a couple of headfiers said on the JH-13's appreciation thread.... The 09 Classic sounds almost the same that the 3GS. Whether you like that sound signature or not it's a whole different story.

Actually i started the thread out of the great surprise that it was listening to the 2009 Classic after being 8 months listening to the 2008 Classic many hours a day. The moment i pluggef it to my hifi via lod i knew instantly that it sounded different and better. And i knew as well that Pfillion and other guys that matched the 3GS to the Classic were right. Then i tried the HP Out to find out the same. So i just wanted to gather opinions from 09 users that also used thoroughly the 08 Classic. This year i just expected 40 more gigs of room not that improvement in SQ.

All in all the 09 Classic is an awesome device for it's price tag. Now i try to convince myself that the 3GS is kind of a phone+gps+laptop rather than a DAP cause for musicplaying i prefer the raw 09 Classic with its 160 gigs and killer battery

My curiosity was worth 600$