[Polky74]

Hey, guys! Wonder if someone here could help me with a question regarding the 7Hz Timeless I've got a few days ago. It's a troubleshooting problem.

I've noticed a very faint, deep-note electrical buzz in the right piece.

I seriously can't tell if it was there in the beginning. It's like a bass shaker tone being played at a very, very low volume. Mostly it's barely perceptible. I could almost say I feel it more than I hear it. Sometimes it's a bit louder but only if no music plays. With music it's impossible to hear it.

It manifests on all three of my computers: 2 desktop PCs and 1 laptop. It happens with an amp (FiiO E10K, or a DAC dongle plugged to the PC), and without an amp (plugged straight into the PC audio-jack).

Here's the weirdest part: the PC doesn't even have to be turned on, it's just suffices that it's connected to the electrical outlet. It disappears immediately if I touch the PC frame, or in the case of using an amp when I touch the amp itself.

When plugged into mobile phones (with or without the DAC dongle) the buzzing doesn't happen. When I plug it on a battery-powered laptop it doesn't happen.

The issue persists also when changing cables, and it seems to be present only on the right piece.

Other than the issue described above, I can't hear any difference, disbalance or distortion in the sound between the left and right.

Obviously there's something happening with the right piece, but is it grounding-related or something? I live in a residential building, so the electrical wiring isn't of the DIY kind. My electrical engineering knowledge is seriously lacking. Could someone point me to what could be happening here and what are my options (short of returning them)?

I'm asking because I most probably won't be able to return them since they were bought directly from China, and it would be costly to ship them back.

A tip to solve the problem you can buy an iBasso CB19 cable and a small powerbank and connect it to your dongle which will be powered by the powerbank and no longer by the (buzzing) computer.

 

[VShaft]

Hi,
Firstly, I would advice you to NOT use computer for your source. Computers are the noisiest source one may use in the chain in general, no matter if there is a ground loop or not. Take away your music files from your comp and use a dedicated player (preferebly with SSD storage).
Second, it looks like a grounding issue, so you may need to call in an electrician to make measurements since the issue may cause big troubles.
Third, do not blame the Timeless - it is detecting the issue well, not creating it. So you have the issue also for the other iems/headphones but you do not hear it while it is still damaging the fidelity.
Forth, the easiest thing to do is change the wall socket you are using and if possible the line. In houses/apartments usually you have a heavy duty line/sockets for your cocking appliances and heating boiler and a low duty line for TV, hair driyer, iron,.. So change the line if possible, minimum the socket.
Otherwise, you may watch youtube how to kill grounding issues but at the end it is a try-change-endless game.
In most chaces it is the wall socket or the el. splitter to be to blame.

I don't listen to my local files, but I mostly stream. I've found that Tidal's FLAC is more than enough quality for me.

I doubt an electrician would be able to do anything, because the building was constructed in the 1970s and it was usual to to simply not include a ground/earth wire in the electrical installations. When I removed the sockets only the Line and Neutral wires were present, no earth/grounding. I've seen this in the apartments of many friends and family, in building that were built in the 60s-90s. And the sockets themselves I changed myself in the whole apartment a few years ago. The Timeless has this buzz no matter which room the PC is plugged in the apartment.

In any case, I've contacted iFi. They seem to have a few products that help with grounding issues. Especially, I seem to have the situation that they describe their Groundhog+ product should solve. Namely, this:

I'll wait for their feedback.

@[B]Polky74[/B]
Thanks for this suggestion also. I'll look into it if everything else fails.

 

[Sharppain]

Striming Tidal from comp or using local files is comp does not change the issue around noisy device. The comp is noisy source/ media in general.
For the rest - I told you try-change procedure is the cure. Yep, some iFi products may help - I use a special addapter b/n the provider internet cable and my moden/router and a special adapter b/n my el. line and tube amp.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

I still wonder what happened to the Timeless 2.

 

[mobbaddict]

I still wonder what happened to the Timeless 2.

They're still working on it apparently, I remember they mentioned it on social media lately. I guess it's good they're taking their time to release new revisions.

 

[VShaft]

Striming Tidal from comp or using local files is comp does not change the issue around noisy device. The comp is noisy source/ media in general.
For the rest - I told you try-change procedure is the cure. Yep, some iFi products may help - I use a special addapter b/n the provider internet cable and my moden/router and a special adapter b/n my el. line and tube amp.

I have a simple regular PC with a budget DAC/amp. I'm aware that it's far from an ideal source in terms of "cleanliness", but acquiring an alternative setup with a dedicated player and other peripherals (SSDs, etc) is complete overkill for my use-case.

Anyway, I have a conclusion to my problem, and it's sadly one where there's no help for me save to install grounding wires in the building's power mains. The iFi customer support told me that the Groundhog+ requires a grounding installation somewhere in the apartment for it to work. They also said that none of their products would be helpful in eliminating the noise.

And as I've mentioned, my whole residential building of 90+ apartments was built without it in mid '70s. So the chance of uprooting an entire building's electrical infrastructure to install one is - zero. I'm sure there are some other DIY workarounds available, but I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't want to pay electricians for costly work just to eliminate a barely-perceptible hum in one of my IEMs.

So, I'm stuck with what I have. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

[Sharppain]

Well, as I told you before, you need an electrician specialist. And the story is that usually the materials for repair cost peanuts. The experience is the expensive.
Now I will share a few cases which I had - please, do NOT do anything by yourself if you do not have experience:
1/ wall socket - old building, old cables in the wall, heavy duty usage - the isolation of the cables in the socket, at the end where the bidding is done, degrade with time (burnt); so a small repair by adding isolation (electrical scotch) is done and socket is changed; it is not creating grounding but sometimes helps;
2/ Plug, the one on the device, or of the splitter, with time and heavy duty usage can get burnt (usually in close expection is visible that the plastic looks like corosion started) - should be changed immediately;
3/ splitter with surge protection - this you should use for sure to protect comp, tv, air-conditioning,... Usually good surge protectors have also EMI and RFI protection - this is far different than providing grounding but sometimes helps;
4/ adapter that turns the signal from comp to optical and that again passes thru dac...
5/ usually plugs, except the el. spikes, have two metal spring plates on the external which lead the plug into the socket - they have a certain purpose but sometimes isolating them with el. scotch kills kills the buzz.
So, again, do not mess with sockets and el instalation if you do not have experience. Second, do NOT ground you el. instalation or el. devices to the external grounding of the building - it protects the building from lightnings, leading the lightning voltage in the ground; do not lead the lightnings to your apartment!!!
So far, most useful for me were: the el. surge protector with EMI/RFI protection to which I plug all my audio devices (you will put it b/n the wall socket and your comp). And getting rid of comp from my audio chain.
Last, if you have other cable that can go with the Timeless make a change - some cables have less 'sensitivity' and noise conductivity.

 

[Polky74]

...or a USB Y cable and a power bank...

You can also put the gold wires in the wall socket... it's still a wall socket...

(personal opinion)

 

[mobbaddict]

Testing the Dunu S&S tips which supposedly work great with the timeless. The soundstage is nice with the OG timeless, very open and transparent, but I can't feel the bass, they become too mid centric with those tips. I tested those tips with other iems make sure it's not my ears and even when fully inserted they're still very light on the bass. FWIW tese days I'm sticking to the Sennheiser IE pro silicone tips which offer a great mix of balance/comfort/isolation with the timeless.

 

[NexusOne]

It seems to be that <500 € the IE600 is the best IEM? I am looking for a ChiFi alternative but there is nothing on the same level. I'd like to try the Timeless AE because of the improvements over the original but then I read it is muddier, veiled and with less clarity in comparison. Maybe the S12 Pro is a good alternative or the OG. But I don't like to buy the older one. Too much iems...

 

[Polky74]

It seems to be that <500 € the IE600 is the best IEM? I am looking for a ChiFi alternative but there is nothing on the same level. I'd like to try the Timeless AE because of the improvements over the original but then I read it is muddier, veiled and with less clarity in comparison. Maybe the S12 Pro is a good alternative or the OG. But I don't like to buy the older one. Too much iems...

If I were you I would try something like this... just to overturn all your beliefs about iem... lol

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005...st_main.5.7c9e3696laEETF&gatewayAdapt=glo2ita

 

[samandhi]

Testing the Dunu S&S tips which supposedly work great with the timeless. The soundstage is nice with the OG timeless, very open and transparent, but I can't feel the bass, they become too mid centric with those tips. I tested those tips with other iems make sure it's not my ears and even when fully inserted they're still very light on the bass. FWIW tese days I'm sticking to the Sennheiser IE pro silicone tips which offer a great mix of balance/comfort/isolation with the timeless.

So, would these impressions be in direct comparison to the stock (SS-like) tips that come with the OG Timeless? I have not yet bought any of the SS tips, but I have 2 of the 3 stock tips from the SS in use at the moment, and I really love them.

 

[samandhi]

It seems to be that <500 € the IE600 is the best IEM? I am looking for a ChiFi alternative but there is nothing on the same level. I'd like to try the Timeless AE because of the improvements over the original but then I read it is muddier, veiled and with less clarity in comparison. Maybe the S12 Pro is a good alternative or the OG. But I don't like to buy the older one. Too much iems...

Your statement is a bit vague to get proper recommendations from anyone here because no one knows what you like and don't like. Some would argue that the Timeless and Timeless AE is better than the IE600 for their ears. And some (me included) don't feel that the "improvements" to the AE are actually improvements to begin with...

For me, price doesn't dictate which is best because of the "gouging" that some companies do nowadays. For my ears, the iBasso IT-07 is still number one in all my IEMs, with the Aur Audio Aure coming in second (and the Aure are were indeed less than $500; now discontinued though). For much less, I might also argue that (for me) the Raptgo Hook-X, Bridge, and OG Timeless are some of the best up to kilobuck territory as well. But, since they are all different, it is very hard to say which is best. I could imagine that if I were preferring a specific tuning and overall sound, any one of my IEMs could indeed be the winner for this day. This is why I always recommend that you pre-determine what sorts of tuning you might like on any day where your hearing is a bit different than the day before (for example). Then you can buy all of those, and then you are all set for any day of the week when your hearing changes, your surroundings change, the type of music changes, etc...

If, however, you are looking for something that sounds just like a set you already have, but has something that you consider as an "upgrade" in sound, then you will probably need to describe exactly what you are looking for. This because you are indeed correct, there are just too many to choose from if you don't want to buy blind, or just buy to be buying.

 

[NexusOne]

You are right. I have to describe it better. I didn't have much iems. I will use it for rock / metal. A neutral or a fun signature would be nice (Fostex / Edition XS). Both is fine. I liked the tonality of the Galaxy Buds + and Sony WF1000XM3. The only thing I have to avoid is a warm, veiled tonality (Sennheiser 58x). I think I am in the right thread. A planar like the timeless could be a good start. But there are other planars like the S12 Pro, too. The AE is on my list. But i read it is a muffled version of the OG.

 

[Sharppain]

You are right. I have to describe it better. I didn't have much iems. I will use it for rock / metal. A neutral or a fun signature would be nice (Fostex / Edition XS). Both is fine. I liked the tonality of the Galaxy Buds + and Sony WF1000XM3. The only thing I have to avoid is a warm, veiled tonality (Sennheiser 58x). I think I am in the right thread. A planar like the timeless could be a good start. But there are other planars like the S12 Pro, too. The AE is on my list. But i read it is a muffled version of the OG.