[fablestruck]

I'd have to give that some thought. Probably have to do some critical listening between the 2. Off the top of my head, Zen is really pretty good in the mids but treble rolls off early. Definitely have to give it to Timeless up top but maybe Zen through the mids. Zens magic is in it's dynamics. I really dig Zen.

I never had a Dunu and was having some thoughts about the DK4001 or Zen or now the Zen-Pro. I was wondering if they would have anything substantial to add to the Timeless.

 

[Toxolotl01]

According to AliExpress my Kbear Rhyme cable delivery was cancelled before it arrived at customs. Maybe they will try to send it again?

Weird, mine too!
I opend a dispute and got a refund.
So I'll keep using the XINHS 4-Core Graphene cable

 

[guitarizt]

What I've found so far is they really need some sort of amplification, depending what your source is. My main phone, Samsung Z fold3, doesn't have enough kick to drive the 7hz. The mids sound thin and weak. My Hiby R6 Pro is much better but doesn't match my Emotiva A2M amp for sound quality with the Hiby as the source.
I'm trying out my ES100 bluetooth receiver with the 7hz and it does a surprisingly good job them.

What my feelings were too. I'm just using my computer headphone jack to drive them, but it needs everything on my pc turned up almost to max which isn't close to any of my other headphones. Also because of the bass on the timeless, I feel like it'd just be much better with an amp. Maybe an amp improves vocals as well with more headroom. I ordered a btr5 with balanced cables. Also have utws3's coming tom. Maybe the timeless will sound better to me out and about where I'm not listening with such a critical ear.

 

[guitarizt]

Experiment with the tips a bit. I can get ear-piercing treble, no bass, gut-shaking bass or utter perfection, depending on which tips I use.

The yellow tip silicon fit is so good. It feels like custom in my ear. Easy to drive and sounds correct across several sources. Sounds good ootb. Cable is supple with classy looks. I appreciate when an iem can sound good from the start. Extra points from me.

I was going back and forth between the biggest yellow tip ones and the biggest all white ones. Using the biggest all white ones now.

True, once you get rid of the treble brightness the mids get just as good as any good planar or electrostat headphone. These may not have the same forwardness in the midrange as dynamic transducers though, because planars in general sound different (some people talk about a wall of sound effect).

It's weird I don't think the treble is that bright, but it's not sparkly. Maybe it's that wall of sound thing.

I know arguably break in doesn't exist and the logical argument makes sense, but I think something is happening with the vocals with these. It's tough for me to explain because it's more of a feeling thing for me. They just feel a bit more juicy instead of super sterile. I know the opposite of that is organic and warm, but really juicy is the only way I can describe it. I get that the freq range of headphones and iems don't change, but idk if it's something with the distortion of certain frequencies. I was googling if tube amps change anything besides the frequency because that was a big debate in the guitar world, basically that tube amps are placebo. It wasn't true before, but new (well it's getting old now I guess) modelling amps like the kemper are basically indistinguishable, although I haven't played a kemper in real life yet.

[edit] Actually a better way to describe what I'm hearing is that it's sounding more like vinyl than a cd. It's not exactly that, but it's the closest I can come in words to describing what I think is happening.

 

[blorg]

So I love the technicality of the timeless, also the bass surprised me. Vocals don't seem to have life to me though. Is there enough headphone on the same tier level as this with maybe a more v-shaped sound that would fix that issue, or is everything going to cost 500+ now?

The Timeless is already V-shaped. V-shaped emphasises the bass and treble and recesses the mid-range- vocals are pushed back. If you want more vocal emphasis you want something less V-shaped, not more. I also have the Galaxy Buds Pro you mention and they have far more forward mids, particularly lower mids, compared to the Timeless.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Timeless,Galaxy_Buds_Pro

Timeless do benefit from a bit of power and may sound better off the BTR5 than laptop. Good idea to get a balanced cable as it has 3-4x the power in balanced mode. I use these balanced with the BTR5, it works very well. It's unlikely to fundamentally alter the sound signature though. Distortion due to lack of power, if it exists, will primarily manifest in the very low bass, not high up in the mids.

Probably the next step up, with more mids, would be something like the Moondrop Blessing 2 ($320), or Blessing 2 Dusk ($329- my preference). If you did go for the B2 (non-Dusk) I have seen that as low as ~$272 in sales. The Dusk doesn't tend to get reduced so much. If you want closer to Timeless, with similar bass but a bit more in the mids, Dusk. Blessing 2 if you want far less bass(which in turn, will naturally emphasise the mids), and a sooner/ slightly higher (more shouty) pinna gain (upper mids).

https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Timeless,Dusk_S2

The new Shuoer S12 ($129-149) which is a similar planar IEM might also be an option, it's early days and preliminary graphs suggest mids are very similar but I think I saw some people say they are more forward on this than the Timeless, that it's less V-shaped. It's looking similar, good, cheaper, maybe slightly more towards what you are looking for.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

One day we will be able to buy open back planar IEMs. Just imagine if the Timeless had it's driver exposed behind a mesh. The soundstage is gonna be so big.

 

[mobbaddict]

One day we will be able to buy open back planar IEMs. Just imagine if the Timeless had it's driver exposed behind a mesh. The soundstage is gonna be so big.

Personally I like closed-back soundstages better, I have the open-back Stax SR-003 for instance and I find them less immersive than the Timeless. Imaging and depth matters more to me and I'm getting good results with the Timeless. That's personal tastes of course.

 

[guitarizt]

The Timeless is already V-shaped. V-shaped emphasises the bass and treble and recesses the mid-range- vocals are pushed back. If you want more vocal emphasis you want something less V-shaped, not more. I also have the Galaxy Buds Pro you mention and they have far more forward mids, particularly lower mids, compared to the Timeless.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Timeless,Galaxy_Buds_Pro

Timeless do benefit from a bit of power and may sound better off the BTR5 than laptop. Good idea to get a balanced cable as it has 3-4x the power in balanced mode. I use these balanced with the BTR5, it works very well. It's unlikely to fundamentally alter the sound signature though. Distortion due to lack of power, if it exists, will primarily manifest in the very low bass, not high up in the mids.

Probably the next step up, with more mids, would be something like the Moondrop Blessing 2 ($320), or Blessing 2 Dusk ($329- my preference). If you did go for the B2 (non-Dusk) I have seen that as low as ~$272 in sales. The Dusk doesn't tend to get reduced so much. If you want closer to Timeless, with similar bass but a bit more in the mids, Dusk. Blessing 2 if you want far less bass(which in turn, will naturally emphasise the mids), and a sooner/ slightly higher (more shouty) pinna gain (upper mids).

https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Timeless,Dusk_S2

The new Shuoer S12 ($129-149) which is a similar planar IEM might also be an option, it's early days and preliminary graphs suggest mids are very similar but I think I saw some people say they are more forward on this than the Timeless, that it's less V-shaped. It's looking similar, good, cheaper, maybe slightly more towards what you are looking for.

Ah ty so much. I'm def still learning. Iems and headphones are a lot!

Dusks I've been tempted by because I love crin, and the blessing 2 just seems to be a staple at the ~300 price range. That being said, the timeless is in the same ballpark it seems like. So then I'm like well why not the variations? But then I'm like well why not the monarch or clairvoyance? But def at that price point I would want the monarch mk2, so I'll see how the arias sound when I get them in 2-3 weeks, and how the timeless sound with balanced cable + btr5. But the monarch mk2 is on my radar later this year. Argh, my wallet!

 

[mobbaddict]

I was going back and forth between the biggest yellow tip ones and the biggest all white ones. Using the biggest all white ones now.

It's weird I don't think the treble is that bright, but it's not sparkly. Maybe it's that wall of sound thing.

I know arguably break in doesn't exist and the logical argument makes sense, but I think something is happening with the vocals with these. It's tough for me to explain because it's more of a feeling thing for me. They just feel a bit more juicy instead of super sterile. I know the opposite of that is organic and warm, but really juicy is the only way I can describe it. I get that the freq range of headphones and iems don't change, but idk if it's something with the distortion of certain frequencies. I was googling if tube amps change anything besides the frequency because that was a big debate in the guitar world, basically that tube amps are placebo. It wasn't true before, but new (well it's getting old now I guess) modelling amps like the kemper are basically indistinguishable, although I haven't played a kemper in real life yet.

[edit] Actually a better way to describe what I'm hearing is that it's sounding more like vinyl than a cd. It's not exactly that, but it's the closest I can come in words to describing what I think is happening.

I don't know if there's such thing as break-in indeed but you can give them one extra week and see if the mids improve. If you don't find them bright then maybe just to equalize the bass down by 3 db to make the midrange more prominent, that could help.

 

[blorg]

Ah ty so much. I'm def still learning. Iems and headphones are a lot!

Dusks I've been tempted by because I love crin, and the blessing 2 just seems to be a staple at the ~300 price range. That being said, the timeless is in the same ballpark it seems like. So then I'm like well why not the variations? But then I'm like well why not the monarch or clairvoyance? But def at that price point I would want the monarch mk2, so I'll see how the arias sound when I get them in 2-3 weeks, and how the timeless sound with balanced cable + btr5. But the monarch mk2 is on my radar later this year. Argh, my wallet!

The Dusk IMO is a better tuning than the Timeless. Certainly it is if you want more forward vocals. The Timeless is far more V shaped. The Dusk is more of an all rounder. The Timeless certainly competes on technicalities, it is a lot closer to the likes of the Dusk than something like the Starfield/Aria. Dusk I think has better soundstage though, it feels remarkably open for an IEM.

The Aria is great at the price, and the tuning is quite different from the Timeless, it will have more forward mids. But I think you'll also find it much more congested and less technically competent coming from the Timeless.

I have the Variations as well, I think I would rank the Dusk above it, as an all rounder at least. Certainly if you are looking for more forward vocals, I would actively avoid the Variations, it has this very distinct "suck" where it has extremely emphasised sub-bass but then a huge dip and very recessed mid bass and lower mids. Lower mids more recessed than the Timeless. It's very good for some genres, great for electronic music. But the Dusk is a better all-round tuning.

Of the stuff I have, the Dusk is what I'd rank at the top spot, it's really very very good.

 

[guitarizt]

I don't know if there's such thing as break-in indeed but you can give them one extra week and see if the mids improve. If you don't find them bright then maybe just to equalize the bass down by 3 db to make the midrange more prominent, that could help.

Hmm love it, I'll try it!

The Dusk IMO is a better tuning than the Timeless. Certainly it is if you want more forward vocals. The Timeless is far more V shaped. The Dusk is more of an all rounder. The Timeless certainly competes on technicalities, it is a lot closer to the likes of the Dusk than something like the Starfield/Aria. Dusk I think has better soundstage though, it feels remarkably open for an IEM.

The Aria is great at the price, and the tuning is quite different from the Timeless, it will have more forward mids. But I think you'll also find it much more congested and less technically competent coming from the Timeless.

I have the Variations as well, I think I would rank the Dusk above it, as an all rounder at least. Certainly if you are looking for more forward vocals, I would actively avoid the Variations, it has this very distinct "suck" where it has extremely emphasised sub-bass but then a huge dip and very recessed mid bass and lower mids. Lower mids more recessed than the Timeless. It's very good for some genres, great for electronic music. But the Dusk is a better all-round tuning.

Of the stuff I have, the Dusk is what I'd rank at the top spot, it's really very very good.

Interesting. I guess I'll have to try the dusk out. The reviews are amazing. Plus I can see myself making my way through the crinicle tuned stuff as well as just the best value stuff. This is an expensive and addicting hobby.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

Decided for myself to order a new kbear Rhyme cable from a different AliExpress vendor. Let's hope it's gonna arrive.

The age of planar IEMs has begun.

 

[DrewVz]

Just throwing this out there for folks who are doing some tip rolling, the Azla Earfit Short (standard black color tips, not the light clear ones) work very well. I actually think I like them better than the CP100+. More cohesive soundstage and clearer separation in my opinion. Personally, I have moved on to the 8-core graphene cable and Symbio W tips, which I think is a significant step up from all the other cable/tip combinations I've tried, and I've tried a lot. The Symbios are strange - they don't seem to pair well with any other cables. For the stock cable and Rhyme, I prefer the Azla Shorts. Hope you guys find something that works for you.

 

[Tomm11]

I never had a Dunu and was having some thoughts about the DK4001 or Zen or now the Zen-Pro. I was wondering if they would have anything substantial to add to the Timeless.

Interestingly enough ... if you compare graphs, Zen, Zen Pro and Timeless aren't radically different in terms of FR plots (especially Zen Pro and Timeless) aside from the Timeless extended treble and a bit more bottom end. Regardless, they are very different "flavors".

 

[ExTubeGamer]

Large tips are interesting on the Timeless. If your timeless only lays in your ear and doesnt enter your ear canal, its gonna sound like an open-back headphone. Currently using Symbio W medium tips.