6SN7 Tube Addicts

[ken6217]

   
Just a note: The 6SL7 has an amplification factor of 70 while the 6SN7 has an amplification factor of 20, that is, 3.5 times higher. But again, many folks use these tubes in their 6SN7-based amps with very good results.

I know it has higher gain. I have the TS RP as well and even though they sound nice, I find the 6SL7 sounds better for me.

 

[gibosi]

And you can count me among those who have rolled 6SL7 in place of 6SN7. And I would agree that the TS RPBG 6SL7 is a great tube.
 
The point I want to make is that even tubes that seem to be quite different from a 6SN7 often work very well. In addition to the 6C8G, 6SL7, ECC32 and 76, I have recently rolled 2C51, ECC40, ECC804, E80CC, E182CC, 5687, 5694, 6463 and a large variety of standard and premium versions of the 6DJ8 family, and I have been very pleasantly amazed at how good they sound in a 6SN7 socket. And if one takes a bit more time to carefully select complementary rectifiers and output tubes, the results can often be outstanding.
 
So for those folks who are looking for new tubes to roll, I would suggest that it can be very rewarding to think outside the box.
 
Cheers

 

[jamato8]

  And you can count me among those who have rolled 6SL7 in place of 6SN7. And I would agree that the TS RPBG 6SL7 is a great tube.
 
The point I want to make is that even tubes that seem to be quite different from a 6SN7 often work very well. In addition to the 6C8G, 6SL7, ECC32 and 76, I have recently rolled 2C51, ECC40, ECC804, E80CC, E182CC, 5687, 5694, 6463 and a large variety of standard and premium versions of the 6DJ8 family, and I have been very pleasantly amazed at how good they sound in a 6SN7 socket. And if one takes a bit more time to carefully select complementary rectifiers and output tubes, the results can often be outstanding.
 
So for those folks who are looking for new tubes to roll, I would suggest that it can be very rewarding to think outside the box.
 
Cheers

The operating points of the 6DJ8 type is pretty close. I prefer the 6DJ8 to the 6SN7 as to me, the 6DJ8 is even more musical and more alive but it won't work in all situations and people shouldn't get the idea that if the tube fits, try it. 

 

[Jozurr]

IMO the TS RPBG 6SN7GT and Syl 6SN7W have very good bass, but neither has the bass slam of say, the Ken Rad or the ECC32. Still, they are both very fine tubes.

In my experience, for most manufacturers, the 6F8G and the 6SN7 sound almost identical. For example, while some hear differences between the round-plate versions of the TS 6F8G and the 6SN7, given my ears and gear, these differences are too small for me to be able to reliably differentiate between them. The major exception is the National Union 6F8G. It sounds significantly different than either the gray-glass or the later black-glass NU 6SN7GT, Some prefer the NU 6F8G over either of the NU 6SN7, and in fact, some prefer it over the TS 6F8G/6SN7.

Therefore, given my ears, other than the NU, the only reason to purchase the 6F8G is that typically they can be had for a bit less than the 6SN7. That said, the NU 6F8G is different enough that it might be worth checking out.

One last thought....  In some amps, the 6C8G sounds about the same as the 6F8G, and they are even less expensive. The 6C8g uses the same adapter as the 6F8G. However, the 6C8G has an amplification factor of 36, so it is not a direct plug-in replacement for the 6F8G/6SN7, with an amplification factor of 20. But then, the ECC32, with an amplification factor of 32, plus a number of other differences, is also not a direct plug-in replacement. And yet, many love the sound of the ECC32 in a 6SN7 socket. So the 6C8G might also be worth a try...

Cheers

The Mullard ECC32 seem to be US 800 a pair and the ECC31 about USD 500 a pair (used with adapters?)

What would be a variant of those that can be rolled instead of the 6SN7 type?

 

[dminches]

I prefer the ECC32 over any 6SN7 other than the TS BGRP.
 
$800 per pair seems high.  I could sell you a sightly used pair for half of that.

 

[gibosi]

The Mullard ECC32 seem to be US 800 a pair and the ECC31 about USD 500 a pair (used with adapters?)

What would be a variant of those that can be rolled instead of the 6SN7 type?

 
The ECC31 is essentially a 6N7G. In fact, they were considered to be interchangeable and the same adapter will work for both. In fact, here is an ECC31 labeled as a 6N7G
 

 
The ECC32 is a modified ECC31, with separate cathodes. The only tube I am aware of that could be considered similar to the ECC32 is the Raytheon 5694, which is a modified 6N7G with separate cathodes. However, the 5694 is very rare and requires yet another adapter to be used in a 6SN7 socket.
 

 
Edit: Also, the 6A6 is the direct predecessor to the 6N7G and they are electrically identical. However, it has a 7-pin base, so an adapter will be necessary.
 
Here is a nice pair of National Union 6A6 with engraved bases.
 

 

[MP1968]

  True enough. But often two halves of the same tube aren't that well matched and unless the circuit requires that the two halves be matched, which often isn't the real need, 2 single triodes should work fine. Also as they are used they will drift anyway but I agree that getting them close never hurts. I can check them on my very modified 439C, with digital meters to get everything pretty close although I can't do a trace, obviously but for normal use it works fine using my Hickok. 
 
Yep, I have a crazy number of 76 and 6J5 but they, at the time, weren't too expensive and I like both tubes. I am glad I picked them up. I must have around 100 76 tubes and 50 6J5. Of the 6J5 I have some really nice European versions in ST but I am looking forward to trying the Sylvania tubes from the early 1940's. I don't find that mu always, within reason, will play that big a difference but for my own amps, I have always found that with the 76 and 6J5, getting them close to max dissipation, gets the best sound and I mean right on the edge but there is a transparency and realism that getting close to the max reveals. 

 
In my Icon HP8 I've tried various 6SN7s: Brimar CV1988, Ken Rad VT231, Sylvania Bad Boys, CBS 5692, Sylvania Chrome Dome, Tung Sol Mouse Ear, RCA VT231.
 
From gibosi it seems that 6F8Gs (apart from the NU) are generally very close to the 6SN7 sound, and hence perhaps I'll try a different direction.  
 
I wouldn't be anticipating night and day differences, but what would you suggest in the 76 and 6J5 department which would offer a nice alternative flavour to what I've tried so far?
 
On the Project Ember thread the Zenith and Visseaux 6J5 seem to be highly thought of, for example. Unfortunately the Visseaux doesn't seem to come cheap. 

 

[jamato8]

   
In my Icon HP8 I've tried various 6SN7s: Brimar CV1988, Ken Rad VT231, Sylvania Bad Boys, CBS 5692, Sylvania Chrome Dome, Tung Sol Mouse Ear, RCA VT231.
 
From gibosi it seems that 6F8Gs (apart from the NU) are generally very close to the 6SN7 sound, and hence perhaps I'll try a different direction.  
 
I wouldn't be anticipating night and day differences, but what would you suggest in the 76 and 6J5 department which would offer a nice alternative flavour to what I've tried so far?
 
On the Project Ember thread the Zenith and Visseaux 6J5 seem to be highly thought of, for example. Unfortunately the Visseaux doesn't seem to come cheap. 

For some reason a go towards the 76. A little more transparent and clean sounding. But it all depends upon the circuit. 
 
I have some of the 6J5 in coke bottle, military grey glass from Europe. They weren't cheap years ago and I never see them for sale. Some even have the silver right above the filament. As soon as they are tested they form some. Many people think this mean the tube is used. It doesn't  mean that all the time. I will be curious to try out the grey glass coke bottle 6J5. Z 6J5G 10D/348 CV/1067 is on the tube.
 
Now I remember, My grey glass 65JG are G.E.C. They were military bulk packed. Purchased from Microtronics, who has been out of business for some time.  

 

[leftside]

  I prefer the ECC32 over any 6SN7 other than the TS BGRP.
 
$800 per pair seems high.  I could sell you a sightly used pair for half of that.

I've been buying a lot of tubes the last few months, and $800 is a little high. Having said that, I have paid a lot for a genuine NOS/NIB (never opened) ECC32 from a trusted seller. But, you should get much cheaper for a lightly used pair. Also check out the entire ECC31-ECC35 range of tubes. They are some of my favorites and sometimes good deals appears (nice pairs for $200 - $300). I created this thread and will be posting some more pics later:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/808322/ecc31-ecc32-ecc33-ecc34-ecc35-tube-addicts

 

[r one]

Gibosi, your collection make me dream

 

[gibosi]

  Gibosi, your collection make me dream

 
Thanks!
 
And here is another off-the-wall tube that performs very nicely in a 6SN7 socket, IF you are able to provide 12.6 volt heater current. The FDD20 is a Philips-made (Milan, Italy) 12 volt version of the 6N7G, It has a weird European side-contact base (P8A), and the adapter is pretty ugly, but to my ears, it is a very good sounding tube.
 

 
Plus it has a rather pretty blue tinting...
 

 

[whirlwind]

  Gibosi, your collection make me dream

Yeah, gibosi has a wonderful library of tubes and an amp that can use them all 

 

[Jozurr]

   
The ECC31 is essentially a 6N7G. In fact, they were considered to be interchangeable and the same adapter will work for both. In fact, here is an ECC31 labeled as a 6N7G
 

 
So what do you thin is a better way to go if I need the Mullard CV181, go for the 6SN7=ECC32 or the ECC31 with an adapter? Or whatever is cheaper between the two if I dont care about using adapters?
 

   
In my Icon HP8 I've tried various 6SN7s: Brimar CV1988, Ken Rad VT231, Sylvania Bad Boys, CBS 5692, Sylvania Chrome Dome, Tung Sol Mouse Ear, RCA VT231.
 
From gibosi it seems that 6F8Gs (apart from the NU) are generally very close to the 6SN7 sound, and hence perhaps I'll try a different direction.  
 
I wouldn't be anticipating night and day differences, but what would you suggest in the 76 and 6J5 department which would offer a nice alternative flavour to what I've tried so far?
 
On the Project Ember thread the Zenith and Visseaux 6J5 seem to be highly thought of, for example. Unfortunately the Visseaux doesn't seem to come cheap. 

 
Can you post some comparative impressions between them like bass slam, soundstage etc or a one liner defining sound? I've read about them individually, but would be nice to read a quick comparison if it doesn't take too long.

 

[gibosi]

  So what do you thin is a better way to go if I need the Mullard CV181, go for the 6SN7=ECC32 or the ECC31 with an adapter? Or whatever is cheaper between the two if I dont care about using adapters?
 

 
Go for whatever is cheapest, of course.

 

[MP1968]

   
So what do you thin is a better way to go if I need the Mullard CV181, go for the 6SN7=ECC32 or the ECC31 with an adapter? Or whatever is cheaper between the two if I dont care about using adapters?
 
 
Can you post some comparative impressions between them like bass slam, soundstage etc or a one liner defining sound? I've read about them individually, but would be nice to read a quick comparison if it doesn't take too long.

 
At the moment I can't give you much clear guidance, as I haven't yet systematically switched around different tubes during my listening sessions to try and work out the differences.  It's also complicated by the fact that I've been switching around different ECC83s in my amp as well, and rotating headphones.  Too many variables, basically.
 
The only things I can say at the moment are to confirm that yes the Ken Rad VT231 has great bass response, and the black glass Brimar CV1988 has a definite warm musicality about it.  I think the pair which I've put in my amp and had an immediate 'this is good' reaction to (i.e. trying to put aside new toy syndrome) is the Sylvania 1952 Chrome Dome.  I bought these for a reasonable price compared to some of the others, and I'd say that's been the best value so far.
 
I also tend to find myself reaching more regularly for the CBS 5692.  
 
Hope that's vaguely helpful.