[rb2013]

   
Finding information about dates is a pain.  I did find a page specifically about Brimar valves (which were Ediswan, Mazda, Thorn, AEI and one or two others I believe), but it didn't seem to cover the military codes, only the standards for ECC88/E88CC.  
 
Based on the code on mine, it was made in the Rochester plant outside of Kent, England.  However, don't know the date code designation and research hasn't found much.  The Ediswan doesn't sound anything like my Mullard branded that say Made in Britain with the Mullard shield on it.  There are however Mullards which are CV designated that had the same 2493 designation but were made in a different plant.
 
If I had to choose a secondary for my favorite, I would say my Amperex 7308 (Made in US), or my Valvo 6922 (looks similar to my Amperex 6922).  I personally don't care much for the CCa in the Decware, but it could be entirely different in another amp so obviously won't get rid of it.  Same for the Telefunken CCa, which I think the 6922 sounds better than overall.
 
EDIT:  Helpful little site: http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Codes-on-Tubes-Valves-Mullard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html
EDIT:  Helpful little site 2: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html (Better of the two - Brimar Specific)

Great stuff - we have someone from the Lyr Tube Rolling thread working on a master list of 6922 type tube codes, factories and identification clues - a monster job - but well needed.  Just within the UK family you have Mullard, GEC, Ediswan, of course these have been rebranded from other manufactures and vice-a-versa.  With in the UK designations you have CV2492, CV2493, CV4108, CV5358, etc...
 

Yes please do!!

So many projects - so little time.  Next up a Lyr Modding thread and a thread dedicated to the amazing Melodious MX-U8...
 

Amazing review! Definitely must read!
Thanks a lot for your effort!

Thanks!
 

  Whola!!!! Very nice article. Thanks @rb2013 for writing this.

Thanks!
 

  Wow your review was pretty extensive. I appreciate these kind of reviews because obviously there was a lot of thinking and work that went into it.

I took six months to assemble the tubes and design the review methods.  Thanks!
 

  Great review rb2013! It's really interesting to see the HG 6N23P come out of on top of the shootout!
 
Just one question about your PW 6922. Some people say every different revisions of PW sound quite different. Like the early Eindhoven-made 7L0 and 7L1 production (factory code "6") would be different from the late 50's Heerlen 7L2 and 7L3 with the common "delta" code, and the more elusive Hamburg Valvo tubes would also be different...
For example, I have 7L3 Heerlen PW from 1958 (and I agree with what everyone says about the PW traits). Any chance you could share the date and factory codes on yours for reference? Thanks!

Yes there are many variation of the Pinched Waist - including the highly prized US Amperex 6922 D Getter PW.  I did another smaller review with one of those. There are also the Holland 6DJ8 Pinched Waist - which I think are not as good as the US 6922 PW.  Someone on the Lyr thread found a Valvo CCa PW - very rare.  All these PW's are very expensive and rare - I was fortunate to have a loan from a friend of the pair in the review.  Of all the PW's I have heard they do share a common 'family' sound.  I think the review let's you know where I stand with them.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2115 post #2129 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220 post #2229
 

Thanks for the excellent review! Your attention to detail is admirable. I have been satisfied with the Green letter Amperex 7308 from 1968, but, following your article I may have to try those Reflektors! Great stuff.

Those '68 Green print Amperex 7308's are very good - I will list the review pair for sale today in the classifieds. 

 

[Exacoustatowner]

Rb! I already thanked you a couple of times in the Lyr thread- let me thank you again here- I dub thee "Tube-God!." 

Eric

 

[rb2013]

  Rb! I already thanked you a couple of times in the Lyr thread- let me thank you again here- I dub thee "Tube-God!." 

Eric

Cheers! 

 

[3 toes of fury]

wooo hooo buddy!
 
thank you thank you thank you @rb2013 for such an AMAZING analysis.  Its threads like this which caused be to change from "constant site reader" to "active site member".    Ive recently transitioned from a headphone lover to a headphone/dac/amp lover and tube roller.   (I blame Jason and Mike @ Schiit for making such amazing gear). 
 
Question to fellow Lyr fans...and apologies if this is well-worn territory in other threads....what is your suggestion for best-bang-for-your-buck tubes for a budget conscious newbie who's looking to do some fun rolling with lyr,  available from US distributors (preferrably),  for under $150?    Please let me know what distributors you dig?    Also...if this request is a bit too specific and i really need to look globally for best tube values,  do you have preferred vendors (ie: ebay sellers?).
 
Similar question to @rb2013:   for some of your tubes you list 'Best Buy' prices...do you have a specific distributor associated with them?
Im thinking based on all your research that i should start with your highest rated tubes within my price range but need to find where they are.
 
Thanks to all for such a wonderful headphone,  amp, and dac community.    This place rocks!
 
Peace .n. "You can dance if you want too...you can leave your friends behind"  -Men w/out Hats
 
3ToF

 

[Oskari]

  military codes

 
UK CV codes: http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm

 

[rb2013]

  wooo hooo buddy!
 
thank you thank you thank you @rb2013 for such an AMAZING analysis.  Its threads like this which caused be to change from "constant site reader" to "active site member".    Ive recently transitioned from a headphone lover to a headphone/dac/amp lover and tube roller.   (I blame Jason and Mike @ Schiit for making such amazing gear). 
 
Question to fellow Lyr fans...and apologies if this is well-worn territory in other threads....what is your suggestion for best-bang-for-your-buck tubes for a budget conscious newbie who's looking to do some fun rolling with lyr,  available from US distributors (preferrably),  for under $150?    Please let me know what distributors you dig?    Also...if this request is a bit too specific and i really need to look globally for best tube values,  do you have preferred vendors (ie: ebay sellers?).
 
Similar question to @rb2013:   for some of your tubes you list 'Best Buy' prices...do you have a specific distributor associated with them?
Im thinking based on all your research that i should start with your highest rated tubes within my price range but need to find where they are.
 
Thanks to all for such a wonderful headphone,  amp, and dac community.    This place rocks!
 
Peace .n. "You can dance if you want too...you can leave your friends behind"  -Men w/out Hats
 
3ToF

Thanks for the kind words.   Well I think FleaBay is your best bet for the best deals - not without many pitfalls.  But really the Headfi classifieds are a great place to watch.
 
You can post up your finds from Ebay on the Lyr Tube Rolling Thread or here - many knowledgeable folks to help give you some guidance.
 
As for the Ruskies -don't even get me started.  Long ago, being a dedicated tubey, I decided to buy a decent (not totl) tester.  That was money well spent.
Anyway, approximately 30-40% of the tubes I have gotten from the Russian and Ukrainian Ebay dealers have been fails - and often they send you different tubes then pictured.  Ugg!  I do occasionally get a few extra tubes that I match up into pairs that I offer to the community.  I did this mostly thin my growing herd of the lessor 6n23ps I had to buy to get the very best.  And to see if others were getting the same amazing SQ that I was getting.  When I first started posting about them a few years ago, the skepticism was tremendous.  Mainly because the 6n23p's that folks had tried were the middling '80s and 90's - and really no one had delved that deeply into the various years and constructions - I had really just accidentally stumbled into this myself.  After buying a bunch of these - I did first notice the shield differences - silver and gray - and being well versed in the Siemens CCa's knew that made a difference.  Then I thought - what about finding earlier ones - usually earlier are better (not always).  That began a year long very deep dive into collecting, sorting, grading, and ranking these.
 
Well back to your question - I would use the Headfi threads as a great resource in your quest for tube nirvana!
 
PS here are some dealers I have dealt with successfully:
Tube World https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
Upscale Audio http://www.upscaleaudio.com
TubeMonger http://www.tubemonger.com
Tube Depot https://www.tubedepot.com
The Tube Store (USA) http://www.thetubestore.com
Brent Jesse http://www.audiotubes.com
 
 
Good luck!~

 

[Oskari]

Computer Audio? 

 Why?

 

[rb2013]

   
UK CV codes: http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm

Good stuff on the UK tube markings - Thanks!

 

[3 toes of fury]

@rb2013:    huge thanks for your great reply to my questions.   i absolutely appreciate the time you took to help address my concerns about global tube orders (are they really matched,  will they really meet stated quality vals, etc).   thanks too for the awesome list o suppliers.   i was pleased to see brent jesse listed as my first set of non-stock tubes came from there (amprex 6dj8 'bugle boy' which i found to be a wonderful step up from stock).    The tip about head-fi classifieds is awesome!  i think i'll be spending some time (and money) around there.
 
Im re-reading your tube analysis article for the 2nd time today...its just an absolutely exceptional comparison review.   Thank you soooooooooooooo much for taking the time to detail and share your tube rolling adventures with us all.  
 
Peace &  "Music is a moral law.  It gives soul to the universe,  wings to the mind,  flight to the imagination,  and charm and gaiety to life and to everything."  - Plato
 
               3ToF...Rockin and (tube) Rollin!
 
 

 

[rb2013]

  @rb2013:    huge thanks for your great reply to my questions.   i absolutely appreciate the time you took to help address my concerns about global tube orders (are they really matched,  will they really meet stated quality vals, etc).   thanks too for the awesome list o suppliers.   i was pleased to see brent jesse listed as my first set of non-stock tubes came from there (amprex 6dj8 'bugle boy' which i found to be a wonderful step up from stock).    The tip about head-fi classifieds is awesome!  i think i'll be spending some time (and money) around there.
 
Im re-reading your tube analysis article for the 2nd time today...its just an absolutely exceptional comparison review.   Thank you soooooooooooooo much for taking the time to detail and share your tube rolling adventures with us all.  
 
Peace &  "Music is a moral law.  It gives soul to the universe,  wings to the mind,  flight to the imagination,  and charm and gaiety to life and to everything."  - Plato
 
               3ToF...Rockin and (tube) Rollin!
 
 
 

Glad you found it helpful - I have to say a great pair of tubes has given one of the best bangs for the buck in all my audio adventures.
 
I love those quotes at the end of your posts!
Cheers!

 

[Expeditionary]

Ah just when I thought I had accumulated a large quantity of tubes to roll in my lyr 2 as well I come across this thread...I thank you for your comprehensive review but my wallet curses your name fantastic work on the reviews.

 

[rb2013]

  Ah just when I thought I had accumulated a large quantity of tubes to roll in my lyr 2 as well I come across this thread...I thank you for your comprehensive review but my wallet curses your name fantastic work on the reviews.

I feel your pain

, but the sound is oh so good!

 

[Exacoustatowner]

 
I feel your pain

, but the sound is oh so good!

Sooo true! 

 

[sfo1972]

  Thanks for the kind words!  My 2cents:
1)This has not been the case for me - as the HG's ('75 Reflektor Silver Single Wire Getter Post) won on every song.  I'll post up the top three tubes by song.  But others may, of course, feel differently.
 
2) Yes I think you are right here, anyone of these tubes would be a game changer over stock and could be a game ender. 
Really important - First, I don't think the point score effectively captures the 'personality' of each tube.  And it's the personality trait of great transient capabilities coupled with tube liquidity and warmth that had the HG's as stand outs for me.  Second, I have realized that audio quality improvements and musical enjoyment are not a linear function.  What I mean is that a 1% or 2% improvement does not necessarily mean a 1% or 2% increase in musical enjoyment.  As your system gets better and more refined  - small differences are really noticeable and bring great satisfaction.  The old saying the difference between a gold medal and no metal can be milliseconds.  As I've worked to improve my systems over the decades I notice that once I achieved a really good sound - I would enjoy it for many months - but a kind of complacency would set in.  I would find myself listening less and less.  I knew it was time to improve it - to bring back the excitement of revisiting my old cd tracks.  And I would improve one of more pieces of gear - then if successful - it was like hearing these old tracks for the first time.  And the process was repeated a dozen times over 20+ years.  I still feel finding the HG tubes was one of the biggest leaps and most universal across all aspects of the sound quality- for a component replacement.  Would I have wanted to start where I'm at now?  I don't think so.  So my advice is be patient - do it incrementally and enjoy the ride.
 
3)I have been through the Cyro route and I don't believe it makes a big enough difference to warrant the expense.  I also had a bad experience of cryoing a nice vintage 50's pair of 5u4g's only to them fail right after - both.  Was that due to the Cyro process? I can't say for sure  - but it does stress the tubes.
 
4)I believe the legend of these tubes has built over many years of folks enjoying them - tube rollers like many of us.  There some great tubes in each class from the 6dj8 to the CCa's, I don't think  it was just the military grading.  I have heard some '70s Siemens silver shield CCa's I did not care for.  And that is the reason some became legends - see the HK tube club 6dj8 blind tube shootout.
 
5)I bought a lot of new production from: CryoSet (10 yrs), Tube Depot(10yrs)  and The Tube Store (USA), and vinatge: Tube World (20yrs), Brent Jesse (5yrs), Upscale (over 10yrs).  All have treated me fairly.  I have also bought on Audiogon (20yrs,  200+ transactions), Headfi Classifieds and Ebay - Audiogon and Headfi are more reliable.  Ebay is a scary place.
 
Good luck!

Good stuff Bob! Thanks for the insights. Point 5 will help a lot of new comers. I wish if I had known that when I got started in looking for tubes.
 
On point 2, I totally agree and can attest to how critical one gets when improving the system, now this can be good or bad as we enter the OCD realm. I just dropped a wad of cash on a new Bifrost Uber + USB Gen2 to complement the Lyr2 vintage tubes I recently acquired. After setting up a new listening room, my Oppo-HA1 which IMHO has an amazing DAC was moved to the office, and I was left with a basic entry DAC in the new listening room. It didn't take long to recognize that it is a weak link in the chain.
 
Needless to say, I am on hour 40+ of Bifrost burnin with the Isotek CD. Should cross the 100+ hours mark by mid-next week making my chain more rugged to play kick-ass music 

 
Cheers

 

[rb2013]

 
Good stuff Bob! Thanks for the insights. Point 5 will help a lot of new comers. I wish if I had known that when I got started in looking for tubes.
 
On point 2, I totally agree and can attest to how critical one gets when improving the system, now this can be good or bad as we enter the OCD realm. I just dropped a wad of cash on a new Bifrost Uber + USB Gen2 to complement the Lyr2 vintage tubes I recently acquired. After setting up a new listening room, my Oppo-HA1 which IMHO has an amazing DAC was moved to the office, and I was left with a basic entry DAC in the new listening room. It didn't take long to recognize that it is a weak link in the chain.
 
Needless to say, I am on hour 40+ of Bifrost burnin with the Isotek CD. Should cross the 100+ hours mark by mid-next week making my chain more rugged to play kick-ass music 

 
Cheers

And so it goes!  Time for a bank line of credit - LOL!  I'm hoping to raise enough to cover at least half the cost of the HiFiMan EF1000 amp - then plead with wifey to combine the rest as the next 5yrs worth of B-day presents.  I need to stock up on three pairs of HG's -actually just one more pair.  As a pr will come from the Lyr and a pr from one of my intregrated it will replace as it's also a 50watt Class A speaker amp.