[bigshot]

  Can you tell me what dither is?

To learn about dither and how important it is or isn't, you can refer to the videos in my sig file. I'm not paid to follow your tangential questions. I'm talking about whether redbook audio is capable of reproducing everything humans can hear in recorded music or not.

 

[lamode]

 
i'm not alone with pono, almost all musicians and recording engineers can hear it. they might not think it's needed for the average consumer, but they can hear it.

 
When can these mythical people hear it? As they clearly can't hear a difference when you play 16 and 24 bit music side by side. 

 

[lamode]

  I can get on board with that. Corporate-driven science often has to find "good enough".  Why not rely on voice and hearing loss studies to determine our hearing limits, and ignore all music and biology experts that hear deficiencies at 16/44?
 
Because in the late 1970's they knew that a 24bit DAC was going to cost over $1k per chip. No one would buy a CD player if it cost over $2500 retail, no matter how cool the new technology was, or how great it sounded.
 
Gotta get that cost down. Gotta make compromises. First there is cost of DAC, 16bit far cheaper than 24bit in 1980's.
 
Also there's storage -- Redbook could hold about 760mb of data per disc, which would have translated to about 5 songs @ 24/96. Shorter run-time than cassette or vinyl. Nope.
 
All great arguments for 16/44. All tied to ancient tech and ancient practices. All expired in 2015.

 
Nonsense. You could very easily make a cheaper CD player with a 16 bit DAC even if the data is in 24 bit format. In fact some early CD players used 14 bit DACs to save money, which proves my point.
 
No need to add more bits as you will NEVER be listening in a room with low enough noise to hear the extra bits anyway.

 

[James-uk]

Google it yourself. Read up on redbook creation, read up on laserdisc and other optical disc development in the 70's. I don't keep links handy because I'm not paid to do this.

Also read up Nyquest. He worked for the phone company most of his life developing early digital telephony concepts and sampling rates needed to transmit mono voice. Great work but not the foundation of hearing science or having anything to do with simulated stereo music production that we all listen to.

He is always pulled out of context because his theorem is inflated to infallible when it knows nothing of stereoscopic listening and vibration sensing. It knows nothing of the room and position of the ears. It has none of that contextual depth.

The evidence is when I hear 24bit on my pono player, played through almost any set of speakers. They are alive and full of depth and do this magical thing - they start to disappear. 

have you any evidence to show that any human can hear a difference between 24 and 16 bit audio? You seem to have time on your hands so please humour me with this information. I don't want anecdotes I want evidence. If you cannot provide this then your claims are empty and therefore void.

 

[lamode]

   
The evidence is when I hear 24bit on my pono player, played through almost any set of speakers. They are alive and full of depth and do this magical thing - they start to disappear. 

 
Along with your credibility.

 

[James-uk]

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/01/last-words-on-pono-mastering-analysis.html?m=1

 

[ericr]

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/01/last-words-on-pono-mastering-analysis.html?m=1

So does that mean those who bought into Neil Young's hype have been p(ono)wned?

 

[Happy Hamlet]

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/01/last-words-on-pono-mastering-analysis.html?m=1

 
This blog claims to be "a 'more objective' take on audiophile topics(...)". Well, I guess everything is relative

 

[cjl]

   
This blog claims to be "a 'more objective' take on audiophile topics(...)". Well, I guess everything is relative

Would you care to point out which part you think is wrong?

 

[RRod]

 
Would you care to point out which part you think is wrong?

 
Or that is any less objective than the slew of Pono tongue-bathings that are so easy to find these days?

 

[castleofargh]

this is what decided me. 

 
 
mp3 is better you can scuba dive deeper. next time the dude refuses to get me below 20meters because of my level, I show him that I use mp3.
I wouldn't like to go flying, I tend to be sick in altitude, and that's a sure way to end up dissected in a lab in area 51.
QED
 
I feel like this graph closes up the debate on high res once and for all. thank you pono guys!

 

[bigshot]

That sure tells you who their target audience is! Sesame Street has better science!

 

[bfreedma]

"Pono gives you wings"?.... (at least according to their graphic)
Crank up the Red Bull copyright infringement team

 

 

[Krutsch]

  this is what decided me. 

 
 
mp3 is better you can scuba dive deeper. next time the dude refuses to get me below 20meters because of my level, I show him that I use mp3.
I wouldn't like to go flying, I tend to be sick in altitude, and that's a sure way to end up dissected in a lab in area 51.
QED
 
I feel like this graph closes up the debate on high res once and for all. thank you pono guys!

I looked for that "graph" on the pono site; where did you find it?

 

[RRod]

Note how Icarus stays away from the sun, lest we find out how fake his wings are.