[Sound Trooper]

I found the same. I then found the LCD3 to be a step-up from the ZMF Auteur (as did my wife, and headphones were tried on both a WA22 and Glenn 300B), though I've had a quite a few conversations with people on this site and on other sites, and a few people prefer the Auteur.

Your comments makes sense. I recall that the LCD3 which I tried a long while ago is a much refined version of the LCD2. I will have to re-try the LCD3 side by side with the Auteur in order to make more comments on this.

Wow, a straight bottle EL3N ...I would love to get my hands on a few of these...wonder if the price is the same.
thanks for the pic.

I got the lucky, the straight bottle EL3 cost me only USD10 each and the buyer told me that they measured 90% new. No way for me to verify this thou. I will put those EL3 into the amp this weekend and report back on my observations.

 

[leftside]

What was it that you enjoyed more on the LCD-3s than the Auteurs? I have the Auteurs but would love a pair of LCD-3s.

I mainly listen to rock or electronic music genres and prefer the bass on the LCD3s. It would be ideal if you could take the Auteurs to your local hifi store and compare against the LCD3s. I'm sure the local hifi store would like to see your Auteurs. They look gorgeous and are so well made.

 

[gibosi]

If the EL3 sounds good we will have to buy some Stan has them for $20 each. I just bought all the $20 EL3Ns Stan had.
The EL3N is supposed to be the better tube has a upgraded cathode and draws less filament current then a EL3.

It appears that most if not all Philips production of the EL3N came out of Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Austria. However, checking eBay, I also see tubes labelled Tungsram (Hungary, no doubt) and Visseaux (France). Further, I also see tubes carrying the La Radiotechnique (France) label.

Has anyone tried these?

 

[Phantaminum]

I mainly listen to rock or electronic music genres and prefer the bass on the LCD3s. It would be ideal if you could take the Auteurs to your local hifi store and compare against the LCD3s. I'm sure the local hifi store would like to see your Auteurs. They look gorgeous and are so well made.

You know. I’m really surprised that living in the 4th populated city in the US we don’t have a real headphone audio enthusiast store. We have speaker stores but i’ve never been able to find a real headphone enthusiast store. I’ve listened to the LCD-4s and they sounded fantastic playing vinyls. Felt like I was there with the band.

I’lll have to wait on our next Head-Fi meet up and cross my fingers someone brings a pair.

 

[gibosi]

Absolutely. If you genuinely enjoy all the experimentation then there is no reason to stop.

I guess my viewpoint is pretty personal and sometimes I forget that. It comes down to two issues: things like this can flip an OCD switch on for me and inevitably it becomes more pain than fun at some point, and secondly once I have found the tubes I like the best I can't help but feel the rest of the collection is pointless afterwards. It sort of turns "hollow" for me at that point, which is pretty sad really and I suspect other issues I have are coloring things as well. Things don't "stay fun" for me, and sometimes I forgot most people aren't like that. At least I hope they aren't........ for their sake.

For those who are able to keep their spark lit, good for you and keep enjoying.

Unlike some, I have yet to find one tube (for example, a driver) that I like the best. Rather, I have a handful that I like the best. When I compare these tubes, no one tube stands head and shoulders above the others. To my ears, they are all equally good, but they are also ever so slightly different. As a friend once pointed out, the differences are not black and white, but rather, different shades of gray...

And when rectifiers and output tubes are added into the mix, the result is that I have quite a few favorite combinations. Again just different shades of gray...

Further, when a new tube arrives, having a large collection at my disposal allows me to roll-in a variety of other system tubes in an attempt to find a combination that allows the new tube to sound its best. After all, even tubes that many consider to be top tier can sound awful in systems with poorly matched complementary tubes.

So for me, having hundreds (or is it thousands?) of tubes is a luxury... and a joy.

 

[leftside]

Unlike some, I have yet to find one tube (for example, a driver) that I like the best. Rather, I have a handful that I like the best. When I compare these tubes, no one tube stands head and shoulders above the others. To my ears, they are all equally good, but they are also ever so slightly different. As a friend once pointed out, the differences are not black and white, but rather, different shades of gray...

And when rectifiers and output tubes are added into the mix, the result is that I have quite a few favorite combinations. Again just different shades of gray...

Further, when a new tube arrives, having a large collection at my disposal allows me to roll-in a variety of other system tubes in an attempt to find a combination that allows the new tube to sound its best. After all, even tubes that many consider to be top tier can sound awful in systems with poorly matched complementary tubes.

So for me, having hundreds (or is it thousands?) of tubes is a luxury... and a joy.

Glad you wrote that. I thought I was the only one who doesn't hear huge differences in the different tubes. Sure, I can tell a bad/noisy one, but with "good" tubes the differences are often subtle like you say. I was comparing GE 6AS7GA, GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 at the weekend. The cheap GE 6AS7GA were good! The Tung Sols had a bit more of everything (but I won't say they "killed" the GEs) and the GEC 6080s weren't rocking it like the 5998s, but they had such a delightful warm/romantic tone to them that I can't wait to try them in the GOTL.

 

[mordy]

Glad you wrote that. I thought I was the only one who doesn't hear huge differences in the different tubes. Sure, I can tell a bad/noisy one, but with "good" tubes the differences are often subtle like you say. I was comparing GE 6AS7GA, GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 at the weekend. The cheap GE 6AS7GA were good! The Tung Sols had a bit more of everything (but I won't say they "killed" the GEs) and the GEC 6080s weren't rocking it like the 5998s, but they had such a delightful warm/romantic tone to them that I can't wait to try them in the GOTL.

Yes - definitively true; the differences aren't really enormous among the better tubes, but this is how I react listening:
It takes time to adjust to a new tube or tube combination (in addition to the time it takes for the tubes to burn in, if new). After a while you "get" the sound, and the initial impression may or may not stick.
Then there may be something in the long term listening process that I call "Something Bothers Me." It is a quality to the sound that is missing or exaggerated or both or whatever, but something is bothering me when I am listening, and I don't want to continue listening to that combination. Tiring, grating, unpleasant in the long run....
And when I find tubes that leave me without that feeling - nothing bothers me and everything is just beautiful and thoroughly enjoyable; then I know I have found something special.
In the beginning of my tube amp/tube rolling experience I did not want to share my impressions with others, because I did not think that it would be possible for others to agree and hear what I am hearing, given all the differences in personal tastes, equipment and preferences. To my surprise I realized after some time that at least some people can hear exactly what I am hearing and are able to describe their impressions in the same way. I discovered that a small select group of tubes will be top tier for most people, and within this group of tubes most people can find true listening satisfaction.
There is no one best tube as Gibosi says, but there are several combinations that you can happily leave in your amp, forget about tube rolling, and just enjoy the music.
At least until the next discovery comes along......

 

[gibosi]

Glad you wrote that. I thought I was the only one who doesn't hear huge differences in the different tubes. Sure, I can tell a bad/noisy one, but with "good" tubes the differences are often subtle like you say. I was comparing GE 6AS7GA, GEC 6080 and Tung Sol 5998 at the weekend. The cheap GE 6AS7GA were good! The Tung Sols had a bit more of everything (but I won't say they "killed" the GEs) and the GEC 6080s weren't rocking it like the 5998s, but they had such a delightful warm/romantic tone to them that I can't wait to try them in the GOTL.

Maybe not huge differences, but for example, a Sylvania 6SN7W and a pair of Siemens C3g do not sound all that similar. But to my ears, one is not better than the other. In both cases, as Mordy points out, I can listen for long periods of time and nothing bothers me, everything seems right. And I can forget about the tubes and simply enjoy the music.

 

[Oskari]

If the EL3 sounds good we will have to buy some Stan has them for $20 each. I just bought all the $20 EL3Ns Stan had.
The EL3N is supposed to be the better tube has a upgraded cathode and draws less filament current then a EL3.

It is my understanding that only the very early tall & tubular EL3 is a true EL3 and that all the rest are EL3Ns whether they have the N or not. See photo and discussion at:

• https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html

It appears that most if not all Philips production of the EL3N came out of Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Austria.

Agreed. Early ones might be Dutch (or something else), though.

 

[whirlwind]

Unlike some, I have yet to find one tube (for example, a driver) that I like the best. Rather, I have a handful that I like the best. When I compare these tubes, no one tube stands head and shoulders above the others. To my ears, they are all equally good, but they are also ever so slightly different. As a friend once pointed out, the differences are not black and white, but rather, different shades of gray...

And when rectifiers and output tubes are added into the mix, the result is that I have quite a few favorite combinations. Again just different shades of gray...

Further, when a new tube arrives, having a large collection at my disposal allows me to roll-in a variety of other system tubes in an attempt to find a combination that allows the new tube to sound its best. After all, even tubes that many consider to be top tier can sound awful in systems with poorly matched complementary tubes.

So for me, having hundreds (or is it thousands?) of tubes is a luxury... and a joy.

Great post. I agree that most tubes do not stand head and shoulders above most other tubes...very few exceptions in my experience, the 5998 power tube is one that I love dearly. This being said I also find that a cheaper driver tube can sound wonderful with this power tube.
At some point one has to say is a $200-$300 tube that much better than a cheaper tube. With Glenns amps , I would say no, since he has made the OTL sound wonderful with 6BX/6BL7 and C3g driver tubes. while the price of these go up, still one of the best sounding combos for the amp.

I am all for the better tubes, but I never pay the going price for most. If not careful one can spend $1000 on tubes in no time. There is nothing at all wrong with this, just something to be aware of when buying an amp with so many tube rolling options.
I would say that for $1000, new headphones is probably the better bang for the buck, or even upgrading something else in your chain like dac.

It is so very cool to have a bunch of tubes on hand for the very reasons that you mention gibosi.
When I do buy NOS tubes I still use the advice that you gave me long ago. I have some cheap power tubes that I use for burn in of driver tube and cheap driver tubes that I use when burning in power tubes.

It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder

Your comments makes sense. I recall that the LCD3 which I tried a long while ago is a much refined version of the LCD2. I will have to re-try the LCD3 side by side with the Auteur in order to make more comments on this.



I got the lucky, the straight bottle EL3 cost me only USD10 each and the buyer told me that they measured 90% new. No way for me to verify this thou. I will put those EL3 into the amp this weekend and report back on my observations.

Thank you Sound Infinity and enjoy those new Fostex cans.

It appears that most if not all Philips production of the EL3N came out of Wiener Radio Werke “WIRAG”, located in Austria. However, checking eBay, I also see tubes labelled Tungsram (Hungary, no doubt) and Visseaux (France). Further, I also see tubes carrying the La Radiotechnique (France) label.

Has anyone tried these?

I have only ever tried the Phillips production...I think I may try the EL3 Tungsram at some point.
The straight bottle that Sound Infinity has posted a picture of....I did not even know that those existed.

 

[whirlwind]

It is my understanding that only the very early tall & tubular EL3 is a true EL3 and that all the rest are EL3Ns whether they have the N or not. See photo and discussion at:

• https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el3.html

Agreed. Early ones might be Dutch (or something else), though.

If I ever come across some of these tall and tubular EL3 tubes...I will get them....thanks for the pic.

 

[attmci]

If I ever come across some of these tall and tubular EL3 tubes...I will get them....thanks for the pic.

I saw Yates selling all his tubes at big lots. So sad.

For Ken, who are the "unlike some",

 

[Phantaminum]

Pair of Phillips Miniwatts EL3N tubes up for bid. Right now at $49.00

eBay: Phillips EL3N

 

[mordy]

Great post. I agree that most tubes do not stand head and shoulders above most other tubes...very few exceptions in my experience, the 5998 power tube is one that I love dearly. This being said I also find that a cheaper driver tube can sound wonderful with this power tube.
At some point one has to say is a $200-$300 tube that much better than a cheaper tube. With Glenns amps , I would say no, since he has made the OTL sound wonderful with 6BX/6BL7 and C3g driver tubes. while the price of these go up, still one of the best sounding combos for the amp.

I am all for the better tubes, but I never pay the going price for most. If not careful one can spend $1000 on tubes in no time. There is nothing at all wrong with this, just something to be aware of when buying an amp with so many tube rolling options.
I would say that for $1000, new headphones is probably the better bang for the buck, or even upgrading something else in your chain like dac.

It is so very cool to have a bunch of tubes on hand for the very reasons that you mention gibosi.
When I do buy NOS tubes I still use the advice that you gave me long ago. I have some cheap power tubes that I use for burn in of driver tube and cheap driver tubes that I use when burning in power tubes.

It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder
Hi Whirlwind,
"It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder"
Wife: Why do you have so many of those glass things?
Me: I am looking for sonic perfection...
And the excuse for buying more tubes is that they always go up in price - but it is not the case that I have sold that many of them....
Always looking for bargains of good tubes. Here is a good example (did not win it though because I don't really need it and the price went beyond my self imposed budget point):
You can pay this for a Bendix 6080WB (actually sold for $234.50!):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
or, you could buy from an inexperienced seller that advertised it as a Bendix 6AS7 and listed it as made by Sovtek from Russia:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6AS...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
It sold for around $41.
Both the above tubes are the slotted variety which are said to be the best.





Thank you Sound Infinity and enjoy those new Fostex cans.






I have only ever tried the Phillips production...I think I may try the EL3 Tungsram at some point.
The straight bottle that Sound Infinity has posted a picture of....I did not even know that those existed.

 

[mordy]

Hi Whirlwind,
"It is a very nice luxury to have a lot of tubes, even though when the glass keeps arriving in the mail and the wife calls you a hoarder"
Wife: Why do you have so many of those glass things?
Me: I am looking for sonic perfection...
And the excuse for buying more tubes is that they always go up in price - but it is not the case that I have sold that many of them....
Always looking for bargains of good tubes. Here is a good example (did not win it though because I don't really need it and the price went beyond my self imposed budget point):
You can pay this for a Bendix 6080WB (actually sold for $234.50!):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
or, you could buy from an inexperienced seller that advertised it as a Bendix 6AS7 and listed it as made by Svetlana from Russia:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6AS...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
It sold for around $41.
Both the above tubes are the slotted variety which are said to be the best.