[Pibborando]

Well, I just bought a reciever off of eBay. A Sherwood RX4103, for $10.50. The 105W output for each channel should power the Insignias well.
Thing is, it's not in working order. Seller says it powers on and then off a couple seconds later. I would like to repair it, because I've read that this reciever is decent, but I wouldn't know how to diagnose the problem. Has anyone had experience with this reciever or a similar malfunction?

Thanks

 

[music_man]

why did you buy it if you do not know how to repair it?

$10.50 was a darn good deal, but now you have to bring it to a repair shop that due to the state of throw away electronics these days will charge you what a decent receiver like a sony es might cost. maybe i'm wrong you might be lucky and they only charge $65. anyhow, do not even open it if you do not know what you are doing. it will not hesitate to kill you(i'm not joking).

actually the reason i just posted is because i now have a different impression of these insignias.

they are currently powered by an old luxman amp, eq'd by a driverack and crossed over to a sunfire jr. it sounds like $1,000 floor speakers. but go figure because the luxman is worth $500, the drive rack is $700 and the sunfire i think is about $900. so of course. what is of real intrest though is that after 150 hours of break in they do sound much better. even with 2 grand of stuff behind them, out of the box they stunk. honestly if i was going to use the other components in this little system i'd at least be looking at $500 speakers.
it does not matter to me because i repair stuff and have all this sitting around anyhow for one reason or another(trash dump,auction,pawn shop, people didn't pay me...). so they are actually ok. indeed worth $50(or $35 better yet). quite frankly, with a $150 yamaha sub and some electrolytics bypassed with polys right on the wires these could be maybe the best you can get for under $400! by themsleves they are just ok.

i was looking at some different bookshelves from the eighities to nineties at a store yesterday in the under $300 range(i was there for other bussiness). these were all $500-$800 new. i didn't see any of them being better than these when set up like i just mentioned. i am talking about old kef,b&w etc.

i know i can be accused of always changing my mind. but let's not be too critical here,ok? these are less than dinner at a good resturant.
with a sub and filter(total $220 incl. insiginias) i bet you'd have to triple that price before you got notably better performance from shoebox size speakers.
again, the key here is the sub and filter.

music_man

 

[Pibborando]

Sorry for the additional question but I just stumbled upon some old Mirage MBS's.
http://miragespeakers.com/PDFs/class...BSbrochure.pdf (The smaller ones) They were used as surrounds in my parents old entertainment set-up, but have been sitting in their closet for years. Parents said I could have them.

Now, has anyone had experience with these speakers and would/should they sound better than the Insignias? These speakers have cones on both sides (bi-polar, right?), which I find very interesting and wondered if that offered any advantages. Would the placement in the room be different? I think these were around $300 when they came out (1996 I think), so would the $50 Insignias beat them?

The one thing I did notice was the MBS's frequency range starts a bit high, at 120Hz, where as the Insignias start at 50Hz. I am definately going to put a subwoofer in this system, but I was just wondering how the experience might differ.

Thanks

edit @ music_man: No, I was not planning on trying to repair the reciever my self. I've got an uncle who's job it is to repair electronics (stereos, computers, hospital x-ray machines, whatever) and I thought I'd have him take a look at it. If that fails, then maybe I'll just buy a new reciever.

 

[velogreg]

Actually music_man, I appreciate the fact that you do not let ego stand in the way of sharing your honest observations, even when they change or you discover a mistake.

I agree with your comments on the Insignias as well. I took these on as a tweak project just for fun, not really expecting much. The addition or change of the electrolytic-poly caps with some 50+ hours of breakin and adding water putty to the insides of the cabinet to reduce resonance adds some real detail to the sound. Exceeds expectations for the purpose intended.


Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man why did you buy it if you do not know how to repair it? $10.50 was a darn good deal, but now you have to bring it to a repair shop that due to the state of throw away electronics these days will charge you what a decent receiver like a sony es might cost. maybe i'm wrong you might be lucky and they only charge $65. anyhow, do not even open it if you do not know what you are doing. it will not hesitate to kill you(i'm not joking). actually the reason i just posted is because i now have a different impression of these insignias. they are currently powered by an old luxman amp, eq'd by a driverack and crossed over to a sunfire jr. it sounds like $1,000 floor speakers. but go figure because the luxman is worth $500, the drive rack is $700 and the sunfire i think is about $900. so of course. what is of real intrest though is that after 150 hours of break in they do sound much better. even with 2 grand of stuff behind them, out of the box they stunk. honestly if i was going to use the other components in this little system i'd at least be looking at $500 speakers. it does not matter to me because i repair stuff and have all this sitting around anyhow for one reason or another(trash dump,auction,pawn shop, people didn't pay me...). so they are actually ok. indeed worth $50(or $35 better yet). quite frankly, with a $150 yamaha sub and some electrolytics bypassed with polys right on the wires these could be maybe the best you can get for under $400! by themsleves they are just ok. i was looking at some different bookshelves from the eighities to nineties at a store yesterday in the under $300 range(i was there for other bussiness). these were all $500-$800 new. i didn't see any of them being better than these when set up like i just mentioned. i am talking about old kef,b&w etc. i know i can be accused of always changing my mind. but let's not be too critical here,ok? these are less than dinner at a good resturant. with a sub and filter(total $220 incl. insiginias) i bet you'd have to triple that price before you got notably better performance from shoebox size speakers. again, the key here is the sub and filter. music_man

 

[YamiTenshi]

Just a heads up BB is having a two day sale for speakers (Fri-Sat). These things are 20% off = $40.

 

[sbulack]

Wodgy! Look at what you started here!!!
Thank you.

 

[Pibborando]

The Insignias are now coming, as well as a Denon DRA-625R receiver that I won on eBay. Will the Denon work fine (65W outputs) or should I try to get the Sherwood working (105W outputs)?

 

[music_man]

oh darnit! i missed the better sale this weekend. now all i can get back today is $5. lol. well knowing bb, the clerk is probably so inept he/she will just refund the whole price(while i keep the speakers of course) haha.

well, i put a couple of real cheap illinois capacitor company polys in there and a couple of bobbin type radioshack inductors. the xover is stuck in there pretty good. i honestly do not see doing better than these for under $250(pair) at this point. my upgrade is worth like $15.

from an engineering standpoint i cannot see how stuffing these full of water putty makes anything better. i am sure it does since everyone is doing it.
i find that too be too much of a pain so i'll pass on that.

realise that the sides being rounded (even though the slots make them so thin) with a front baffle that is over 1" thick and a x-brace, for their size they are quite rigid. i am sure the thinner spots cause resonance, hence the water putty idea. with a little time i think i can figure out a better and easier way to fill in the slots than the water putty. we'll see.

anyways, the reason my original perception of these changed is that i always have reference class loudspeakers in mind. once i came back to earth for a few moments i realised that at their price point these are indeed quite a bargain after all. intrestingly these are pretty much better than any other units bb sells in bookshelves. even at $350. that is just bb of course though.

music_man

 

[ak622]

Does anyone know if these cheap little speakers are coming up to Canada? They have been out in the States for a while but I haven't seen them at Bestbuy Canada...

 

[Joey_V]

Heard the famous Insignias today. Thought they were OK.

Highs were sort of sibilant and they certainly had a sort of dark character to the sound - like the midrange was a little held back. Bass was quick, but no extension... though this is not a negative since this is a bookshelf we are talking about.

I felt the center fill was decent and there was decent imaging, mostly due to its point source sort of woofer/tweeter combination.

Overall, I liked it for what it did right... and you cant go wrong at $40 or $50.

I was going to keep the Insignias, but they're going back because I cant handle sibilance.

They're still a steal though.

 

[searchenabler]

I purchased a pair of these to give to my dad to use in his work shed. I figured this would give me a chance to give him a little gift and to get some entertainment as well.

I wanted to know how much effect simple cabinet modifications would make, audibly. I used 1/3" - 1/2" total thickness of Peel N' Seal roof flashing material, built up in layers, on all inside surfaces. This material is very similar to Dynamat, but is much cheaper. Functionally, this material prevents the walls from being able to oscillate after a stimulus signal. The walls will still transmit sound, but they will not be able to 'ring' as they normally would. I then removed the useless 1" convoluted foam(not even an acoustic foam from what I could tell -- just ordinary foam with a pathetic acoustic co-efficient) and used 2" thick 8 lb. ft^3 density mineral wool board, which has an extreme high co-efficient for acoustical purposes. I recorded, at various angles(using a rotational measurement turntable) a series of test signals and tracks in an anechoic tunnel(effective down to about 400Hz) consisting of an impulse(for time sync later on in software), MLS(for frequency response and energy storage analysis with a high noise immunity, unlike the pure impulse which is prone to room noise contamination), classical music, hard rock sample, easy listening rock and pink noise. I recorded the speaker using a calibrated measurement microphone and then applied the calibration data to the recorded signals. I measured the speaker in the same spot, with the same levels, in both unmodified and modified forms. I compared actual sound by using the ABX plug-in that Foobar has available as an option. I used the impulse signal mentioned earlier in the first part of the recording to align the signals. I then applied reverb/delays to approximate a well damped room, as according to perceptual research by Toole and Olive, resonances are much easier to detect in reverberant fields(a real room or simulated). I used a Beyerdynamics DT-880 and a Sony MDR-V6 for the listening tests with the ABX software. I could identify most parts of the music samples with relative ease. The pink noise had a huge difference in sound. The room simulation samples had even bigger differences(no surprise). The speaker sounded 'hollow' before the modifications; that's the best description I can give. When I tried to A/B an unmodified speaker vs. the modified one, the differences were even greater than in the sample files. But I should point out that the speakers were sitting side by side, so they were not in the same point in space(physical laws and all that, you know) and this was sighted(as opposed to blinded) evaluation. I find the speaker to be unacceptable before modification. Afterwards, it's still unacceptable for my personal use, but not nearly as repulsive as before the modification. For $40 plus modification costs, I think it's an awesome bargain. The modifications made very substantial difference(s). I believe that if someone likes the speaker before the modification(s), then they will enjoy it a great deal more after the modification(s). But I should point out that I have extremely high standards for sound quality -- so please forgive my statements of repulsiveness. An interesting detail about this speaker is the off axis performance. This speaker, unlike most, has a very linear off axis reduction in high frequency and upper midrange response as you increase horizontal angle. Most speakers have a ragged[in the upper midrange and low treble], unpredictable amplitude response as you move off axis.

http://www.linaeum.com/images/insign...e_smoothed.gif

Please ignore the 350 Hz dip. The measurement tunnel rapidly loses control of energy below approximately 400Hz. The dip is a result of some sort of boundary reflection(s). Note that this is a smoothed response chart set. The unsmoothed set is not easily readable because of the severe comb filtering apparently caused by the horn loading of the tweeter(which in effect this coaxial design is producing) as you approach extreme off axis angles.

Chris

 

[music_man]

when i first got them, i honestly did expect to hear some watt/puppy goodness. then reality set in. $50, er $40 ahh well. a good bottle of liquor is easily twice that price so who even cares(that's why i'm not bothering returning them).

to the person coming from plastic computer speakers of the same price these are an upgrade indeed.

they ended up costing me $39. i am using them to weight down mini utopia be's in my ht front channels!

Joey_V, i find them very unsibilant. i also hate 'ssss'. in fact i find them dull,hollow,dead. most people that know good audio said they sound 'hollow'.
their off axis response is neat though, as has been noted.

searchenabler, i sure hope you already had that roll of peel 'n' seal. it is certainly cheaper than dynamat but afaik only comes in 40' rolls for $70!
the fact that you spent the time on these that you did(or anyone for that matter) seems kind of futile to me. you cannot turn bronze into gold!

i can 'stand' them. saying that you cannot is like saying you can't stand something less than an e-class to drive. there is a lot worse. ever hear the name 'juster"? haha.

music_man

 

[searchenabler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man searchenabler, i sure hope you already had that roll of peel 'n' seal. it is certainly cheaper than dynamat but afaik only comes in 40' rolls for $70! the fact that you spent the time on these that you did(or anyone for that matter) seems kind of futile to me. you cannot turn bronze into gold! music_man

The time to perform the modification is not very long. Maybe 1.5-2 hours for both speakers, if it's your first time. The measurement, recording and analysis to determine sound difference objectively did take a substantial investment in time, however. I highly doubt that anyone else would put this effort into this(or other speakers for that matter) product. However, I feel it is important to try to get an accurate assessment of changes instead of the unreliable evaluation methods typically used when comparing something. Besides, for me, the analysis stage is perhaps most enjoyable part.

The Peel N' Seal is about $14 for a 25' roll at my local Lowe's Home Improvement Center. It did take almost two rolls. So, $28, + about $1 worth of the mineral board to fill them out. The mineral wool board may be difficult for most to get, as it is usually only found at contractor insulation sales outlets, and then only in large bundles. However, I will gladly sell enough for modification to anyone who wants some, for actual cost plus shipping(probably $2 plus $7 shipping; just a guess). Around $75-80 total is probably possible, assuming one buys the speaker when it is on sale. The sound is very impressive for this total cost, IMO. The improvement was substantial, and easily ABXable. With the modification, it would definitely make a superb computer speaker for someone coming off of some of those popular Klipsche things. However, I feel that an active crossover (should be doable with many 5.1 sound cards, which now have LF management abilities) and a subwoofer is required to get the best sound quality. As with almost any non-horn-loaded small sized mid-woofer, non-linear distortion[and possibly intermodulation phase distortion] becomes a problem at around medium[75dBa] and higher SPLs when allowing the small mid-woofer to reproduce bass. I can not recommend the product, even for computer use, in good faith, without the modifications, however.

Chris

 

[Eisenhower]

I was thinking about pairing these up with the insignia 2 channel receiver.

Would this work well If I ran an rca cable from my comp's emu 0404 to the receiver?

 

[cantsleep]

couldnt resist..

my computer speakers can take a long break now..