[DanTheMiataMan]

Srly no matter LCD or Plasma once you get it the first thing you should do is

Google > AVS Forums > Look for your model # calibration settings thread. Read long and try lots of em out till you find one that look the sex on your eyes.

 

[Industrial]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al4x /img/forum/go_quote.gif yet another tv thread ive started! im looking at LCD: samsungs [40"] UE40B7000 Plasma: panasonic [42"] TX-P42V10 they are totally different to each other, but almost identical in price, [to a point where it doesnt matter] as said in other threads, i will undoubtidly have it hooked up to my laptop at times and as such screen burn may be an issue on the plasma, the lcd is also better on power and vibrancy, and although not as good on blacks this one is LED backlit

Burn in? Don't worry about it in newer plama tv's. I have a decent 50'' Panasonic 1080p Plasma HDTV (last years model). I'm writing this post using this monitor. I view this website daily using this monitor. I don't even use a regular PC monitor anymore. I game (XboX, PS3), watch TV, Blueray (PS3) and have an HTPC all connected to the same Panasonic Plasma TV and burn in hasn't been an issue after using for these purposes for over a year.

Now you do get some Image retention from static images that have been there for for more then a few minutes. But that fades away pretty fast when another image goes by that area (like changing channels etc).

I generally prefer the look of plasma tv's for the contrast and nice deep colors. I find LCD to look too "artificial" and overly bright like everything is a cartoon. Not to mention unless they have fixed it the motion blurring from LCD's while gaming really make me nauseous.

If your worried about burn in, just shut the tv off when you know your going to be away from it for more then a couple of minutes. I do it out of habit when I go out to take my dog for a walk etc...

As for reading on a Plasma, Hmm I do it everyday from across the living on my couch and I never noticed blurring or bleeding of the text. I just have to increase the font size (shortcut added to my keyboard) because of the limitation of my silly human eyes.

 

[Al4x]

im still finding it hard to justify plasma, due to the cost, slight possibility of burn in and the fussyness on the SD picture, looking at the tv in my parents room, it isnt good for SD, nor was it in the shop

i was still really taken by the lcd, and i like the vibrancy, and its what im used to with pc screens, hmm, most say plasma but the best are out of my price range too

 

[Al4x]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very true. The settings which produce the best-looking results in the store almost always produce virtually unviewable results at home (yes, even if the room lighting is relatively bright)--specifically, too friggin' bright and contrasty that they (literally) blind the sun. This is because the average store lighting is at least dozens of times brighter than even a sunlit room at home. Unfortunately, Samsung's default ("Standard") settings are still a bit too bright and sharp to my liking. (But it's not as objectionable as the "Dynamic" setting, which pushes almost everything way up.) Personally, with a 32" Samsung LCD that's in my bedroom, I use the "Movie" mode, but custom set "Warm1" instead of the "Warm2" that's the default for the "Movie" setting, and also disable NR (setting it to "Off" instead of the default "Auto"). The Dynamic Contrast function is set to "Off" by default in "Movie" mode with this particular set.

i wad onna say, wouldnt turning down the brightness just solve that problem?

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al4x /img/forum/go_quote.gif i wad onna say, wouldnt turning down the brightness just solve that problem?

In this case, no. There are other settings that one must tweak in addition to brightness. And the way television sets and computer monitors are designed, turning down the brightness control only made the dark areas too dark without affecting the bright areas anywhere near as much--exactly the opposite of what you want. The brightness and contrast controls should be used together for optimal dynamic range in a given room: The brightness control adjusts the black level while the contrast control adjusts the white level. Thus, if you choose to make the picture less "bright" by turning down the contrast control, you should also compensate for the decreased detail in the dark areas by turning up the brightness control a little.

In addition, on the default "Standard" setting on Samsung LCD/LED TVs, there are other hidden automatic picture controls (such as Dynamic Contrast) that are either enabled by default or cannot be disabled at all unless you switch to the "Movie" setting. For example, the Warm1 and Warm2 color temperature settings are available only in "Movie" mode and cannot be set in "Standard" or Dynamic" modes (in those latter two modes, the only selectable color temperature choices are Cool2, Cool1 or Normal--and in my experience with Samsung LCD TVs, the Normal setting is still a bit too bluish in an incandescent-lit room).

 

[iriverdude]

Brightness is the incorrect term. It's black level. What black level is it increases or decreases the amount of black. So if someone's black hair looks grey, and if the whole image is washed out and you have grey shadows it's too high. To low and you can't see anything.

If the amount of light is hurting your eyes, you need a) Increase amount of light in your room b) Reduce backlight c) Disable dynamic contrast. d) reduce contrast (although LCD works better at higher contrast setting, instead adjust backlight to suit)

What makes it "brighter" is dynamic contrast (turn this off) and the contrast setting (proper term is white level) Plus your set may have other contrast enhancing features, turn those off.


Quote:

im still finding it hard to justify plasma, due to the cost, slight possibility of burn in and the fussyness on the SD picture, looking at the tv in my parents room, it isnt good for SD, nor was it in the shop. i was still really taken by the lcd, and i like the vibrancy, and its what im used to with pc screens, hmm, most say plasma but the best are out of my price range too

For SD, plasma wins hands down. Even with a tweaked LCD it's not as good as a plasma. For videos and movies choose a plasma. For computer use or gaming only set choose LCD.

Screenburn is a concern.

A TV should not look vibrant, as that shows

1) Too much dynamic contrast
2) Too much colour
3) Other things to enhance colour DNI-E or black adjust
4) Too high overall light output.
5) Too much sharpness or edge enhancement

A TV once set up should look boring, as in it should not look cartoonish when showing regular TV programs.

I've owned several LCD's from 32" to 42", and a couple of plasmas 50" Overall I'd give the nod to better picture quality to the plasma. But a well setup LCD can look pretty good, if you're not hyper critical.

I would recommend you buy a DVD or BD video calibration disc, at least use it for sharpness and black level (brightness) adjustment. I don't agree with using it for contrast as that ignores what your room lighting is like, for example on a plasma to get no white crush you had to set to about 38/60 (Pioneer) but this is way too high in a dimly lit room, even with a backlight.

You can try adjusting sharpness, bring up some subtitle or telet.Make sure you disable any settings like noise reduction, edge enhancment, and other processing. Increase sharpness to maximum. Walk up close to the TV say 2' You'll notice it'll have halos around the text. Now put it down to minimum. It should now appear blurry and out of focus. What you want is just between the two, just so it pops out of becoming blurry but not high so halos appear. When you have this set up correctly it means you're getting more detail and less artefacts.


Quote:

In addition, on the default "Standard" setting on Samsung LCD/LED TVs, there are other hidden automatic picture controls (such as Dynamic Contrast) that are either enabled by default or cannot be disabled at all unless you switch to the "Movie" setting. For example, the Warm1 and Warm2 color temperature settings are available only in "Movie" mode and cannot be set in "Standard" or Dynamic" modes (in those latter two modes, the only selectable color temperature choices are Cool2, Cool1 or Normal--and in my experience with Samsung LCD TVs, the Normal setting is still a bit too bluish in an incandescent-lit room).

Agree with that, normal is too blue use warm 1. Warm 2 is a bit too warm colour temp. There is a way of getting all of Samsung picture modes (dynamic even) to look decent you go into service menu, you can then manuall force dynamic contrast to off in the dynamic preset. Great as you can have useful multiple settings per input. That's one thing I liked about Samsung (shame rest of the sets are crap though)

 

[zx10guy]

I'm a little late to the party here.

Let me say, I own two Pioneer Elite plasma screens. I have a Pro 1010HD and a Pro 141FD. 50" and 60" respectively. The crap about burn in is way over blown. As long as you do some simple things in regards to your viewing habits and picture settings, you'll be fine. Also, many people confuse the issue of burn in versus IR or image retention. IR will go away after some time and many people have IR issues versus burn in.

The number one thing when you get a plasma is to do a rough calibration to dial back all the torch settings to allow the panel to break in for the first 100-200 hours of its operating life. I did this with my 1010HD. With my 141FD, I used a break in DVD which puts up slides of solid colors and cycles them. I ran my 141FD for about 200 hours with the DVD and some special settings by a AVS Forum ISF calibrator named D-Nice. I then hired D-Nice to do a full ISF calibration on my 141FD. People may think they have their TVs dialed in. But unless you actually have test measurements to back it up you don't know for sure. I have a full set of calibration results stating my 141FD is pretty much dead on with reference. I also took the opportunity to have D-Nice calibrate my 1010HD when he was here to do my 141FD.

If you cycle through the viewing material you watch and try to keep the images on your screen as near full screen as possible, you should be fine. My 1010HD is a testiment to this fact. I've had the TV for about 5-6 years. Zero problems. No burn in and zero dead pixels. In fact, D-Nice said my 1010HD calibrates as good or some times better than the current generation Panasonics.

The reason the Kuros are no longer is due to the economic climate and Pioneer making the decision to exit the TV market. If cost is a concern about the Kuros, the option which hasn't been discussed here is to look for a KRP 500M. The KRPs are monitor plasmas from Pioneer which have most of the features of the Elite plasma monitors but at a lower price point. I haven't been keeping tabs on pricing but I think a KRP 500M can be had for around $2k. They are so wildly popular many places are selling out of them. I know my local Pioneer Elite dealer has already blown through their stock of KRP monitors in a matter of about 3 months. With a software update which you can easily get online, you can unlock the hidden ISF calibration sub menus on the KRPs.

If I were spending the money on a panel in which I care about the picture quality, the KRP panels would be my choice hands down...especially for the money. In addition, the KRP 500M (along with the Pro 101FD) has some of the to be released 10G technology thrown into the panels. The additional 10G technology is further enhancements of black levels....like the 9G black levels weren't extremely good to begin with.

 

[Al4x]

we are always buggered here in the UK for prices! the KRPs you suggested are £2500 which is way to much for a tv for me :/

so it looks like all the pioneers are def out of the window

btw i am likely to leave the comp conected to the tv for long periods too

the best plasma i could afford would be in the panasonic series, but my parents one, [which is in my price range] im not impressed with thats why im swinging to LCD atm, plus the 150 off and the cheaper too run, esp if on for a while, electricity isnt as cheap here eeither :/

does everyone agree plamsa are better? and is ther3e anyone who likes the vibrant LCD colours?

not too late with any replys, got till october 31 to decide on the LCD and if not, i can wait till the end of the year

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

anyone who likes the vibrant LCD colours?

Only for gaming. For videos and movie go plasma. But if you're not too fussed a LCD can look good- but Samsungs are so crap I would not recommend them, but you sound like you prefer a more colourful and vivid picture, this is not accurate or indeed not nice looking. If you like it in dynamic mode something is something wrong with you.

The Pioneer LX-5090's were at the cheapest £1800 with 5 years warranty. But you get no stand or speakers so that's extra.

I didn't think much of Panasonic plasmas thought picture was quite fuzzy, they seem to have quite poor scaling.


But since you're gaming/PC monitor then go LCD, get a 1080p model preferbly a smaller model because if you're close to it, a 50" 1080p is too low resolution/too little desktop space, for the size.


Gaming & PC monitor = LCD
Videos & Movies = plasma.

 

[Al4x]

i will be a fair distance from it, yeh this is the thing with the panasonic, its fuzzy, and thats my biggest issue, the LCDs are sharper tan it, [at least the good ones] the SD on my parents plasma is the biggest bug bear :/

i have never seen a kuro in action, the best plasmas ives seen in action are the panasonic top end models,

the LCDs are more in the 1000-1500 range but as you say, the Kuros are close to 2000 :/

ive gotta get 1080p cause i have a 17inch 1080p laptop and 22in 1080p 2nd screen so wont have anything less

 

[iriverdude]

SD cannot be sharp, don't confuse this with the opposite of what I said (fuzzy) If SD is sharp then sharness is too high. Which means you'll get lots of blocking.

Sharpness should be exactly what the incoming resolution is. If you have a LCD monitor try adjusting sharpness you probably need to use VGA. You can tell straight away when it's too fuzzy, too sharp and just right. Disable cleartype and run native resolution. Font should be exactly 1 pixel either way with no bleeding into the surrounding pixels (sharpness too high)

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al4x /img/forum/go_quote.gif im still finding it hard to justify plasma, due to the cost, slight possibility of burn in and the fussyness on the SD picture, looking at the tv in my parents room, it isnt good for SD, nor was it in the shop

I've read your similar complaints about "SD on your parents' plasma" in other threads. I've discovered that you're never going to get a very good SD image on any 1080p HDTV set regardless of the panel technology--at least not in the price range that you've limited yourself to. You see, in general 1080p sets do a poorer job of scaling 576i (SD in European countries, including the UK) material than do 720p sets--in fact, 720 lines across the entire width of an SD image is less than half the horizontal resolution of a full 1080-line HDTV image to begin with. And most SD content is presented in a 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the 16:9 ratio that's standard with HDTV broadcasts. Plus, by default most HDTV sets are set up to stretch 4:3 images to fill the screen, distorting the image horizontally (Stretch-O-Vision) although you can change this.

In other words, there is only so much you can do when it comes to upscaling very-low-resolution content to a much higher rez.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

In other words, there is only so much you can do when it comes to upscaling very-low-resolution content to a much higher rez.

Oppo 983 to a Pioneer LX-5090 looks stunning. SD can be very good. But switch overly to lower resolution, highly compressed sat channels ie ITV and it looks horrible.

 

[Al4x]

its annpying te plasmas in my price range do a really poor job of SD some channels are alot worse than others, but HD content is gradually coming about, particularly with hd but i wouldnt consider any tv not full hd

 

[zx10guy]

Remember HD is considered any resolution 720P and up.

Again, the scaler in the panel will dictate how good or bad your SD picture is going to be. Pioneers actually have a decent scaler. But as I found out, it's not as good as some of the better scaler options on the market. When I got first got my 141FD, I was expecting a really awesome picture even from 480P off of my Meridian DVD player. The picture wasn't as good as I expected with the combo. Later I purchased a Oppo BDP-83 and the ABT scaling chip built into the Oppo made a world of a difference.

If SD performance really bugs you, the option of purchasing an outboard scaler is always an option. The DVDO Edge is one option which is a budget product when you look at all the scalers available but is still too pricey for most people.

4:3 stretch to widescreen quality is also dependent on the panel. The Pioneers also do a pretty decent job with this. The scretch only happens towards the edges of the picture and is gradual enough to not stick out like a sore thumb.