[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif The winners are the lawyers driving this farce.

The industry, not lawyers, is driving this initiative.

 

[charliex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Meh. In any case, this is why all the music I listen to isn't from the US. Well, that and the fact I've yet to find an album I like that is made by americans.

Whoa – interesting (yet disturbing) thread......
As to KonaKona’s anti-American sentiment – what the hell does nationality, race and creed have to do with the omnipresent auditory gratification afforded by the attainment of aural apogee. Music is what feelings sound like. Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words. Music has an inherent universality and cultural assimilation whether it is exhibited through tintinnabulation or symphonic sonorisms. I have been somewhat of a music affectionado since I was 16 during the Summer of Love and 18 at Woodstock, and still to this day am exploring and discovering sonic amity totally bereft of repugnant illiberality. After all music is the universal language of mankind. “Music is the only art wherin we ourselves are the stuff in which it is made..
“ Musical compositions, it should be remembered, do not inhabit certain countries, certain museums, like paintings and statues. The Mozart Quintet is not shut up in Salzburg: I have it in my pocket.” ~Henri Rabaud
“The discovery of song and the creation of musical instruments both owed their origin to a human impulse which lies much deeper than conscious intention: the need for rhythm in life… the need is a deep one, transcending thought, and disregarded at our peril.” ~Richard Baker

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif where did you read that the judge in the first trial thought that the amount was excessive? I thought it was the jury instruction regarding proof. That the jury was pissed off at this specific defendant sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation for the verdict. An explanation is not a justification. In these cases, the availability of such high statutory damages likely presents a due process issue and could be Unconstitutional.

the actual phrase was "unprecedented and oppressive"

 

[CDBacklash]

Hey, we havnt fined anyone recently. Let's make an example of someone and then charge no one else.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Buff /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree, but your assertion that the RIAA actually lost here is pretty funny. The $$ isn't the issue for them. They know they won't ever get that much. The publicity and the public discussion is worth more than the $$ to them.

forgive me, your honor, but you're not connected to reality.

I cannot imagine anyone who thought the RIAA is gaining mindshare, heart/minds, whatever you want to call it. they are only destroying themselves. they create more 'law breakers' when they act like spoiled powerful bullies. kids don't like that and they rebel. and with filesharing, you CANNOT wipe it out, so the more you try to stop it, the less effective you are. if you don't see that, you simply aren't connected to current, actual reality.

like most judges, actually. too far detached from the common experience.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpalsm /img/forum/go_quote.gif That said, I remember a few years back there was a court ruling here in Canada that likened downloading music to "going to a library and photocopying a page of a book" which is perfectly legal.

I'm not in or from canada but I do hear, every so often, about the blank media tax they have up there.

isn't that like having everyone pay for a crime that they didn't even do yet?

"if you're gonna give me the time, then at least let me commit the crime!"

so, if I was being taxed to general 'artists fund' on every blank DAT, cd-r, dvd-r, I might feel that I've already PAID my 'pirate tax' and I'm now free to do as I please.

its outrageous that musians (et al) get a chunk of each blank cd-r sold, even the ones that are for computer backup and used for nothing music-related at all. its just absurd to grab peoples' money when no crime by them has been committed.

 

[shigzeo]

blank CD's are outrageously cheap in canada. im not sure how much tax is applied if it still is but there is way too much out of context information passed in this thread. first, the american hate stuff, then the strange banter about stealing and now this

 

[Kpalsm]

The RIAA prosecuting people I would say actually encourages filesharing; who wants to give their money to an oppressive "regime" who targets their customers with crazy lawsuits?

Also I would like to point out that filesharing does not hurt the music industry, in fact studies have shown that it helps it. People download music before buying it a lot of the time (they may hear a song they like on the radio, download it, and if they like it, buy the album). Not to mention discovering artists they never knew about before then going out and buying their albums. I myself sometimes download music before buying it (if I don't like it I delete it). It's like trying a pair of cans before buying them, or test driving a car. I think there should be a legal way of "test driving your music" before committing to buy.

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whoa – interesting (yet disturbing) thread...... As to KonaKona’s anti-American sentiment – what the hell does nationality, race and creed have to do with the omnipresent auditory gratification afforded by the attainment of aural apogee. Music is what feelings sound like. Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words. Music has an inherent universality and cultural assimilation whether it is exhibited through tintinnabulation or symphonic sonorisms. I have been somewhat of a music affectionado since I was 16 during the Summer of Love and 18 at Woodstock, and still to this day am exploring and discovering sonic amity totally bereft of repugnant illiberality. After all music is the universal language of mankind. “Music is the only art wherin we ourselves are the stuff in which it is made.. “ Musical compositions, it should be remembered, do not inhabit certain countries, certain museums, like paintings and statues. The Mozart Quintet is not shut up in Salzburg: I have it in my pocket.” ~Henri Rabaud “The discovery of song and the creation of musical instruments both owed their origin to a human impulse which lies much deeper than conscious intention: the need for rhythm in life… the need is a deep one, transcending thought, and disregarded at our peril.” ~Richard Baker

Did you stop reading the thread after you got to my post? We had a nice argument after that with me stating that I don't intentionally avoid american music, but out of all of the music I have found and liked over the years, there is only one artist that I like who happens to be american. How you choose to interpret this is up to you, but it seems most people take it in the worst way. Although it was meant to be somewhat of a joke, it seems like people can't take that.

Anyway, blank CDs are incredibly cheap here as well (Like 20$ for a 100 disk spindle when they are on sale), but who puts pirated music on CDs anymore? With the exception of a handful of people on head-fi most people listen to music from an MP3 player instead of a CD player. Of course if they started charging a pirate tax on MP3 players there would be a nice large backlash I'm sure.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif the actual phrase was "unprecedented and oppressive"

Many thanks for finding the article (and link to the actual decision). From skimming the decision, it appears that while Judge Thomas certainly noted in plain terms his concern about the size of the award, it was not the legal basis for his decision, which rests on the jury instruction concerning dissemination.

Unfortunately for the defendant, Judge Thomas decided that the jury instruction error rendered moot the defendant's argument regarding excessive damages.

So the Judge's commentary is basically dicta. And the subsequent verdict, and the defendant, suffered as a result.

 

[mrarroyo]

Boy, this thread has made lots of turns! Not all for the better.

 

[BlindTiger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Boy, this thread has made lots of turns! Not all for the better.

usually does, for some reason. (even is some more supposedly calm forums like bicycling)
I'd wish the RIAA gives some of it's money to Artists, musicians, songwriters, composers etc instead of the studios.
all I could think of is Heart's song "barracuda" when talking about record labels.
god bless those wilson sisters.

 

[iriverdude]

You just know the money is going into buying a seventh BMW for studio exec.

 

[Judge Buff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I think a judge who doesn't seem to know the difference between theft and copyright infringement is pretty funny. But I wasn't going to rub your nose in it until you decided to get snide with your reply. Some of the reasons the RIAA has abandoned its sue and settle strategy is because they are actually loosing money just bringing these lawsuits and going after people. And the public image of the RIAA has taken a beating as a result of this campaign. They are getting the sort of publicity that most organizations in the public eye would rather do without. --Jerome

I'm sorry you thought I was being snide. That wasn't my intent. The Here's Your Sign was a little over the top, but The RIAA is only taking a beating from groups that don't like their role. I also never intended to get into an argument about legal terms, but copyright infringement is often equated with a theft, not only by the educated general public, but also in Federal Law (No Electronic Theft Law of 97).

It's this law and its changes to the USC, that made us making tapes as kids and sharing copies of music without profit into a crime.

And to answer happycamper's charges: "For a Judge to come here and taut the justice of the law just goes to show how twisted it's gotten..." I didn't come here as a judge. I came here as a guy looking for headphone information. I just informed linuxworks to remove quotes after he attacked me personally.

I also never touted the "justice of the law." How many times do I have to say that the damage award was extreme. My only assertion in this instance was and still is that if you fail to comply with a law... any law, you should be prepared to accept the consequences.

Finally, my personal opinion about tort reform is probably akin to most of yours. But yeah, I support and uphold the laws under my jurisdiction. If you don't like a law, call your legislator. That's what makes us different from most of the world. You can also try the civil disobedience route, but I'd be real choosy about which laws I'd flaunt. Karma is lurking...

I'm done with this thread.

 

[zotjen]

Quote:

Also I would like to point out that filesharing does not hurt the music industry, in fact studies have shown that it helps it. People download music before buying it a lot of the time

And who exactly does these studies? While there certainly are people who will download music to see if they like it and then buy legitimate copies, I'm betting that the majority of people who download don't do this.