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Dec 5, 2016 at 12:04 AM Post #170,296 of 177,745
 
  I believe MacBooks also make use of the aluminum unibody as part of the cooling system. The area between the top of the keyboard and the screen hinge gets pretty hot under load. The battery is on the opposite end of the unibody, so it's not a big deal. They might even be passively cooled by the unibody as well.
 
Since Mac displays are calibrated and macOS supports per-pixel color correction has built-in color management, wouldn't AdobeRGB be a few clicks away?
 
DKMumIX.png
For what it's worth, the Touch Bar is more ergonomic than any touchscreen Windows machine out there.
 
According to DetroitBorg, the palm rejection should be excellent. Which is no surprise. I think it's adaptive and more aggressive when you're typing, because the mouse cursor disappears when you type. I've never seen it move when I intentionally brush my palms across it, and it doesn't click either. Apple has nailed their trackpad for about a decade now. What I am concerned about is possibly spotty three-finger drag operation.

It's not exactly intentional; it's just the nature of aluminum as well as the proximity of the heat generating components to the aluminum. They don't want to use the aluminum as a heatsink because it would make surface temperatures quite uncomfortable (they already get pretty high) but it's not like they put an insulating layer on the panel either. Besides from what I can see the thermal mass on their heatsinks are usually higher than most other laptops of the same size class (part of that is due to the fact that they use the 28W part while most other people use 15W counterparts. In fact the only other laptop with the 28W parts are the VAIO Z laptops last time I checked).
 
The panels themselves to my knowledge can't display AdobeRGB colors. Just because the option is there doesn't guarantee the hardware supports it (Ex. running a game at 120fps when you have a 60Hz monitor, putting on an AdobeRGB color profile while using an sRGB monitor). You can only display 77% of AdobeRGB to my knowledge. I checked Notebookcheck's reviews of the 13" and 15" 2016's and from the looks of it that's the largest color space the panel supports (the colorimeter software usually checks the very limits of the monitor instead of what it's set to as far as I understand but take that with a grain of salt).
 
Yeah but they're not really convenient considering it breaks your attention every time you have to look down at the bar. I can't imagine constantly having to swap between two screens to perform one function on just one screen is a very efficient way of doing things. At least with full touchscreens (ex. tablets) you interact with the screen that you see the immediate changes on. I want to love the touchbar; I was down with the idea of it when Lenovo first tried it on the ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 2 but it's just never going to be a great solution unless some heavy constraints are put into place. There's no haptic feedback (which is already a huge blow to its usability because at least with haptic feedback you can develop muscle memory much faster and with much higher confidence) and there's no consistency between applications and how they take advantage of the touch bar. There's no standardized template from what I can tell as how to lay out the touch bar. That's free for developers to do and since it's going to be used almost every imaginable way possible as far as layout goes it makes it quite strenuous to have to try to subconciously remember the button placement of each application you use in the long rung. I hope the rumors of their acquisition of Sonder goes through because that's a better solution than having a Touchbar (but keep TouchID, that's useful). As of now, keyboard shortcuts have a much higher learning curve for more advanced programs but are really efficient if you take the time to learn them. I think using something like Sonder's e-ink adaptive keyboard it can lower the learning curve for keyboard shortcuts while still maintaining the haptic feedback and consistency advantage of a regular keyboard.
 
But people are still complaining about it so it's not perfect; it's instead a step back because beforehand there were 0 issues with the trackpad. Now they've introduced more by making it unnecessarily large. I think larger than before would have been okay but not to this scale. At this size it might as well be a small drawing tablet built into the keyboard deck.

So it's just correlation and not causation.
 
You're right, sRGB is about 77% of AdobeRGB, which is what the old rMBPs could do. The 2016 rMBPs can supposedly display 25% more colors than sRGB, but AdobeRGB is about 32% more. 125% sRGB is about 95% AdobeRGB.
 
It's like a combo of a function key substitute and a small secondary complementary display that accepts touch input. It's adding more functionality as opposed to relocating it.
 
"You're resting your palms wrong."
 
 
The 15" has 16 GB as standard too. And why upgrade, when you can simply download more RAM?


BUT I DON'T WANT TO DOWNLOAD MORE RAN I WANT MORE REM REM REM!!!

http://www.downloadmorerem.com/

That's one slick looking website.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:16 AM Post #170,297 of 177,745
 
You're right, sRGB is about 77% of AdobeRGB, which is what the old rMBPs could do. The 2016 rMBPs can supposedly display 25% more colors than sRGB, but AdobeRGB is about 32% more. 125% sRGB is about 95% AdobeRGB.
 

The MBP 2016 is 92% sRGB and 77% Adobe RGB. A very respectable score for a non wide gamut IPS laptop screen and competitive with the likes of the Surface screens.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:26 AM Post #170,298 of 177,745
  So it's just correlation and not causation.
 
You're right, sRGB is about 77% of AdobeRGB, which is what the old rMBPs could do. The 2016 rMBPs can supposedly display 25% more colors than sRGB, but AdobeRGB is about 32% more. 125% sRGB is about 95% AdobeRGB.
 
It's like a combo of a function key substitute and a small secondary complementary display that accepts touch input. It's adding more functionality as opposed to relocating it.
 
"You're resting your palms wrong."

I guess collateral or an unintentional side effect would be more accurate.
 
Well we can't just look at percentages exactly because they don't tell us about the behavior of the 3 corners that are outside of the sRGB range because we only know they're further. The panel IS a wide-gamut panel.
 
I wouldn't exactly classify it as adding more functionality because most if not all actions on the touchbar can be done on the main display/using the keyboard portion that's not the touchbar in the same 1 step (or 2 for some) without having to look down (unless you aren't a touch typist then it doesn't matter). You're better off keeping that kind of functionality on the screen since you won't have to break vision with the main screen to focus on a secondary screen to make sure you've hit the right button due to lack of haptic feedback (and just being unsure as to button placement in general because it's dynamic). I don't see many actions you can do blind on the touchbar outside of video/timeline seeking and tab selection in Safari.
 
I mean the whole point of a palm rest is to rest your palms on it so...that's not the user's fault I'm going to say. That's Apple's fault. As it is you may as well make the entire surface a trackpad like Intel's old Nikiski concept or whatever it was called that had a transparent full length trackpad.
  The MBP 2016 is 92% sRGB and 77% Adobe RGB. A very respectable score for a non wide gamut IPS laptop screen and competitive with the likes of the Surface screens.

It's also 100% DCI-P3 though so it's a wide-gamut panel.
 
All of Apple's devices, based on screen alone, are focused on video editors and or HDR media consumption (technically HDR10 spec is Rec.2020 which is larger than both AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 spaces combined but DCI-P3 is the movie industry standard while AdobeRGB 1998 is printed media standard since with industrial-grade printers you lose more greens than you gain reds from swapping to DCI-P3 over AdobeRGB).
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:28 AM Post #170,299 of 177,745
  Sweet! I wish the newer MacBooks had a battery indicator.

My unibody MBP still has an indicator on the side :)
 
BUT I DON'T WANT TO DOWNLOAD MORE RAN I WANT MORE REM REM REM!!!

http://www.downloadmorerem.com/

Haha! gotta love jokes like these
biggrin.gif

 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:30 AM Post #170,300 of 177,745
Nowadays I don't see the necessity of it anymore because all day battery life and the fact that you usually keep it on most of the time. I guess it's a nice convenience feature to check when you're on sleep mode but IIRC there were only 5 increments so you can only tell multiples of 20 or so (probably shifted a bit so that having 1 light on means 10% or something unless the color changed).
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:34 AM Post #170,301 of 177,745
I don't know who to trust when it comes to Surface display quality
 
Displaymate says the SP3 and SP4 screens are well calibrated but another site says the SP3 has banding issues lol
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:36 AM Post #170,302 of 177,745
 
It's also 100% DCI-P3 though so it's a wide-gamut panel.
 
All of Apple's devices, based on screen alone, are focused on video editors and or HDR media consumption (technically HDR10 spec is Rec.2020 which is larger than both AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 spaces combined but DCI-P3 is the movie industry standard while AdobeRGB 1998 is printed media standard since with industrial-grade printers you lose more greens than you gain reds from swapping to DCI-P3 over AdobeRGB).

Ahh yeah, true.
 
Rec.2020...still impossibru. They're getting close with laser panels and QLED though. I think they're up to 97% now. Still absolutely no content because recording and broadcast tech isn't keeping pace.
 
  I don't know who to trust when it comes to Surface display quality
 
Displaymate says the SP3 and SP4 screens are well calibrated but another site says the SP3 has banding issues lol

It's a driver issue with the SP3. Intel and MS not playing ball. http://www.surfaceforums.net/threads/surface-pro-3-screen-calibration-values.13861/
 
The issue isn't present with the SP4.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 12:42 AM Post #170,303 of 177,745
  Ahh yeah, true.
 
Rec.2020...still impossibru. They're getting close with laser panels and QLED though. I think they're up to 97% now. Still absolutely no content because recording and broadcast tech isn't keeping pace.
 
It's a driver issue with the SP3. Intel and MS not playing ball. http://www.surfaceforums.net/threads/surface-pro-3-screen-calibration-values.13861/
 
The issue isn't present with the SP4.

I'm pretty sure laser panels can already do Rec.2020 but they're so impractical and expensive we'll never see them at a consumer level. I'm putting all bets on QLED now that Samsung owns QD Vision. But yeah nothing can ever capture close to Rec.2020 color space.
 
+1
 
SP4 is perfectly fine. We're due for a SP5 in March anyways because of the 18 month product cycle and I'm predicting a wide gamut screen. Unfortunately it'll most likely be DCI-P3 as seeing how the Surface Studio went.
 
Right now choosing between AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 is more or less choosing between alienating photographers or alienating video producers (at least industry ones who use DCI-P3 by default).
 
I think DCI-P3 is a very strange choice for a machine aimed at professionals. DCI-P3 makes sense for consumer oriented devices since within the next few years as HDR10 (I doubt Dolby's standard will have much ground since HDR10 is free whereas Dolby is proprietary) begins to dominate DCI-P3 will most likely be the go-to color space standard for most of the content we view. It's going to stay an alienating choice until we get QLED displays capable of displaying Rec.2020 or at least some color space that encompasses both.
 

 
I'm also curious as to how Microsoft will implement DCI-P3. Apple by default actually uses a DCI-P3 profile with a modified white point called Display Profile 3 and has a separate DCI-P3 standard profile in their color manager from what I've read since DCI-P3 was designed to be used in darker rooms where as Apple made DP3 for viewing content in brighter everyday environments.
 
From the looks of the Surface Studio reviews that actually showed the color profile switches in the action menu there's only sRGB, DCI-P3, and vivid (I have 0 idea what Vivid does). Depending on what color values are measured for Vivid we might see a modified DCI-P3 (this is my guess although as for what modification I'm not sure; I'd hope it's like DP3 because that makes the most sense) or just some funky space between sRGB and DCI-P3.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 2:56 AM Post #170,307 of 177,745
 
 
You're right, sRGB is about 77% of AdobeRGB, which is what the old rMBPs could do. The 2016 rMBPs can supposedly display 25% more colors than sRGB, but AdobeRGB is about 32% more. 125% sRGB is about 95% AdobeRGB.
 

The MBP 2016 is 92% sRGB and 77% Adobe RGB. A very respectable score for a non wide gamut IPS laptop screen and competitive with the likes of the Surface screens.

Shouldn't "P3 color" have 25% wider gamut than sRGB?
 
 
  So it's just correlation and not causation.
 
You're right, sRGB is about 77% of AdobeRGB, which is what the old rMBPs could do. The 2016 rMBPs can supposedly display 25% more colors than sRGB, but AdobeRGB is about 32% more. 125% sRGB is about 95% AdobeRGB.
 
It's like a combo of a function key substitute and a small secondary complementary display that accepts touch input. It's adding more functionality as opposed to relocating it.
 
"You're resting your palms wrong."

I guess collateral or an unintentional side effect would be more accurate.
 
Well we can't just look at percentages exactly because they don't tell us about the behavior of the 3 corners that are outside of the sRGB range because we only know they're further. The panel IS a wide-gamut panel.
 
I wouldn't exactly classify it as adding more functionality because most if not all actions on the touchbar can be done on the main display/using the keyboard portion that's not the touchbar in the same 1 step (or 2 for some) without having to look down (unless you aren't a touch typist then it doesn't matter). You're better off keeping that kind of functionality on the screen since you won't have to break vision with the main screen to focus on a secondary screen to make sure you've hit the right button due to lack of haptic feedback (and just being unsure as to button placement in general because it's dynamic). I don't see many actions you can do blind on the touchbar outside of video/timeline seeking and tab selection in Safari.
 
I mean the whole point of a palm rest is to rest your palms on it so...that's not the user's fault I'm going to say. That's Apple's fault. As it is you may as well make the entire surface a trackpad like Intel's old Nikiski concept or whatever it was called that had a transparent full length trackpad.
  The MBP 2016 is 92% sRGB and 77% Adobe RGB. A very respectable score for a non wide gamut IPS laptop screen and competitive with the likes of the Surface screens.

It's also 100% DCI-P3 though so it's a wide-gamut panel.
 
All of Apple's devices, based on screen alone, are focused on video editors and or HDR media consumption (technically HDR10 spec is Rec.2020 which is larger than both AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 spaces combined but DCI-P3 is the movie industry standard while AdobeRGB 1998 is printed media standard since with industrial-grade printers you lose more greens than you gain reds from swapping to DCI-P3 over AdobeRGB).

Yeah, what you said.
 
I think the percentage is just based on the surface area of the two overlapping triangles. So the two percentages don't have a direct correlation to each other for any given panel, hence we can't extrapolate gamut percentages like what I just did.
 
Haptic feedback (via Taptic Engine, of course) would be great to have. However, that would require two oscillating electromagnets. Probably not possible for the time being.
 
  Nowadays I don't see the necessity of it anymore because all day battery life and the fact that you usually keep it on most of the time. I guess it's a nice convenience feature to check when you're on sleep mode but IIRC there were only 5 increments so you can only tell multiples of 20 or so (probably shifted a bit so that having 1 light on means 10% or something unless the color changed).

I just like the idea of laser-drilled microscopic holes.
 
 
I think DCI-P3 is a very strange choice for a machine aimed at professionals. DCI-P3 makes sense for consumer oriented devices since within the next few years as HDR10 (I doubt Dolby's standard will have much ground since HDR10 is free whereas Dolby is proprietary) begins to dominate DCI-P3 will most likely be the go-to color space standard for most of the content we view. It's going to stay an alienating choice until we get QLED displays capable of displaying Rec.2020 or at least some color space that encompasses both.

DCI-P3 for cinema, AdobeRGB for print/pro displays and sRGB for consumer displays is what I think are appropriate standards. Not sure what to make of P3 Color.
 
 
That dumb-looking side-mouth tho.

I don't know why but that looks completely normal to my brain.

The side mouth is not nearly as concering as the 300%(? see below) larger than normal eyes or a hair color that cannot be produced using the typical melanin found in hair.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 3:25 AM Post #170,309 of 177,745
I've been typing a bit more English than usual at work lately so I tried forcing myself to type using the correct way (i.e. fingers on the home row, use all 10 fingers).
I can immediately see how this can be really fast if I got used it it, for the record my typing speed for english was 23 WPM the last time I checked.
 
I've kinda developed my own hand placement over the years with both my thumbs on the modifier keys, left pinky on the Esc and right pinky on the Backspace.
This placement is pretty fast for triggering a series of shortcuts and typing symbols in programming but horribly slow for plain English...
I might actually invest some time to learn to type properly lol.
 
Man, this is HARD! Especially when reaching for the shift, esc and backspace keys...
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 4:13 AM Post #170,310 of 177,745
 
Man, this is HARD! Especially when reaching for the shift, esc and backspace keys...

 
Bahaha I went through the same learning process around 3-4 months ago, I used to never use my pinky fingers.
 
I think my speed went from 70>20!>60-80ish WPM on typeracer now typing the 'correct' way. i don't think I'm as fast as before in terms of burst rate but my steady state speed is higher. It is nice not making nearly as many mistakes when using brackets or symbols/numbers, I used to struggle a lot because I'd drift away from the home row. I don't type all that much so I doubt I'll ever get into the three digit club. X(
 
I used a site called keybr.com to practice, it's pretty good because you can just copy and paste articles that you'd normally read and just type em out. Or learn something new with the random Wikipedia function.
 
On something like 10fastfingers I'm just as fast on this Thinkpad keyboard as I am on my Topre, but I'm still 10-15% faster on a Latitude chiclet keyboard, very strange. I wonder how I would do with blues, but the noise will drive me crazy...clack clack clack.
 

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