☯️ CAVALLI AUDIO ➜ Liquid Carbon Final Production Run!
Apr 6, 2016 at 9:18 PM Post #256 of 1,260
I think the thing you're failing to take into account, and what's confusing you, is the different "house sounds" of Schiit and Cavalli.  Just because two amps may look the same on paper, doesn't mean they'll sound the same.  Schiit amps across the board tend to share some distinguishing characteristics,  as do Cavalli amps.  What you'll find is that people tend to prefer one sound over the other and they will express their preference as "this is better than that".

So with Schiit amps, you tend to get a more dry, analytical sound with lots of power.  This can translate into a bigger soundstage and more apparent detail and space around the notes.  When I heard the MJ2 and GMB (with both stock tubes and LSST), it felt like each note was individually presented for my inspection.  It was a wonderful insight into the music and appealed to the analytical part of my brain.

With Cavalli amps, you tend to get a more "musical" sound without sacrificing detail.  With the Carbon, this translates into a more realistic soundstage presentation at the expense of size.  Also, it's a more musical experience where the notes flow into each other, allowing me to fall into the music rather than inspect it.  The details are still there, but it becomes more about layering and spacial cues rather than a note by note delineation.  

Obviously, I prefer the Cavalli sound as I own two of their amps.  I've noticed that my preferences have shifted from a focus on detail at all costs to an appreciation of the gear that will connect me to the music.  At first, as I was getting into the hobby, all I wanted to do was inspect the extra detail, hear things I've never heard, etc.  Now that I've spent a lot of time in the hobby, I'm remembering that enjoying the music is more important than enjoying the gear.  

One of the best setups I ever owned was an HD650+Project Ember+NFB-15 (Wolfson DAC).  There were certain songs on that setup that just gave me goosebumps in a way that much of the gear I've had since hasn't.  No, it wasn't the most expensive gear, nor was it the most technically superior.  But damn if "Great Gig in the Sky" didn't send chills down my spine every time!  I moved past that setup looking for "better" gear and it's taken me a while to get back to the point where I'm really enjoying the music like I did on that setup.

I guess the point of my rambling here is that people will listen to music in different ways and that can and will change over time.  Is the MJ2 a good amp?  Of course, it's just not my kind of amp.  Other people love the big soundstage and analytical presentation and that's perfectly fine.  Vanilla and Chocolate are both great flavors of ice cream, I just would rather have vanilla if I could only have one today.  What flavor do you want?


I would add that it doesn't need to be one or the other. Like you, I initially was just searching for the details, but over time got bored of that and wanted to feel the music again. What you get when upgrading to TOTL gear is all the details PLUS the musicality, the soul, of the music. That's what great gear is about for me. That's what I've heard with the Liquid Carbon gateway drug, and I know there is more to be had in Cavalli's bigger amps. Give them a source that can present the details and let the amps talk to your inner child.
 
Apr 6, 2016 at 9:20 PM Post #257 of 1,260
I would add that it doesn't need to be one or the other. Like you, I initially was just searching for the details, but over time got bored of that and wanted to feel the music again. What you get when upgrading to TOTL gear is all the details PLUS the musicality, the soul, of the music. That's what great gear is about for me. That's what I've heard with the Liquid Carbon gateway drug, and I know there is more to be had in Cavalli's bigger amps. Give them a source that can present the details and let the amps talk to your inner child.

 
Oh absolutely, and you're correct about the big Cavalli amps.  Having both is an amazing thing but it costs a lot of money!  lol
 
(I spent a couple hours with the LW and Yggy today.  It was time well spent!)
 
Apr 6, 2016 at 9:46 PM Post #258 of 1,260
WOW! This is why I love this place! You always get insightful answers to your thoughts and musings. As pointed out I can always get a Schiit MJ2 later if I wish it. I am not into amp collecting. I have been lucky enough to get some nice cans at some great prices too. I am fortunate to own what I own and never worry about what I do not have too much. Its just at that last head-fi meet in Phila. I was overwhelmed with the sound of balanced vs. non-balanced. And when I hear difference that is saying something! 
 
Unless a miracle happens there is only so much to spend! So getting a higher end Cavalli will only happen on a good used deal, so this may be the only chance that I have at the "Cavalli" sound. This was been pointed out by @Vigrith which has a lot of merit.
 
@Mumbles06  I so get where you are coming from hence my mental basketball. I have owned Schiit gear for awhile and the MJ2 was my target for awhile, and when I heard it at the Phila. meet I was quite happy! For me there was no need for the next model up. 
smily_headphones1.gif

 
@bronzboy that is always the case in anything. I have decent playback devices, cables etc. But what you do say has more merit than a lot give it credit for. Junk in is junk out. 
 
@Stillhart I get that because back when I had some money(before marriage and child) and was into high end audio I owned things like Van Alstine amps, Electrocompianet, Acoustat, Rodgers + a few others. (those were the days!) not all amps sound the same that is why I list the cans I use so those who are in the know have something to work with. I have heard the Violectric V281 amp but again it's much to rich for my blood! 
smily_headphones1.gif
  Plus I ramble with the best of them so  it's all good! Yggy is amazing JUST not sure how soon THAT will be in the cards, it will be a LONG time...
 
I have a little bit of time but a choice will be made when I come finish all the mental basketball! For the moment anyway, I am LEANING LC Cavalli as there is really no way to be wrong. Its why I have been a member here going on 11yrs and while I am not a big poster, I am huge reader. I always get the information when I need it. And boy has this hobby changed over the years!
 
Apr 6, 2016 at 10:36 PM Post #259 of 1,260
With Cavalli amps, you tend to get a more "musical" sound without sacrificing detail.  With the Carbon, this translates into a more realistic soundstage presentation at the expense of size.  Also, it's a more musical experience where the notes flow into each other, allowing me to fall into the music rather than inspect it.  The details are still there, but it becomes more about layering and spacial cues rather than a note by note delineation.  
 
Obviously, I prefer the Cavalli sound as I own two of their amps.  I've noticed that my preferences have shifted from a focus on detail at all costs to an appreciation of the gear that will connect me to the music.  At first, as I was getting into the hobby, all I wanted to do was inspect the extra detail, hear things I've never heard, etc.  Now that I've spent a lot of time in the hobby, I'm remembering that enjoying the music is more important than enjoying the gear.  
 
One of the best setups I ever owned was an HD650+Project Ember+NFB-15 (Wolfson DAC).  There were certain songs on that setup that just gave me goosebumps in a way that much of the gear I've had since hasn't.  No, it wasn't the most expensive gear, nor was it the most technically superior.  But damn if "Great Gig in the Sky" didn't send chills down my spine every time!  I moved past that setup looking for "better" gear and it's taken me a while to get back to the point where I'm really enjoying the music like I did on that setup.
 
I guess the point of my rambling here is that people will listen to music in different ways and that can and will change over time.  Is the MJ2 a good amp?  Of course, it's just not my kind of amp.  Other people love the big soundstage and analytical presentation and that's perfectly fine.  Vanilla and Chocolate are both great flavors of ice cream, I just would rather have vanilla if I could only have one today.  What flavor do you want?

 
 
THIS! Great insight on a high level. Thanks much Stillhart! 
 
You've probably just pushed me over the edge into Liquid Carbon Land.... 
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 2:10 AM Post #261 of 1,260
HD800S owners that get in on the final production run of the Carbon are going to be happy with the combo.
 
Spotify > iPhone > CCK > Chord Mojo > Blue Jeans Cable > LC > balanced HD800S was a nice treat tonight.  Only had the Mojo a couple days but I like what it is delivering to the LC.  Before that I had the base Pulse + Carbon, a different beast combo than the Mojo + Carbon.  Pulse was technically good, but Mojo has more sauce on the ribs.  No technical breakdown here, but I'm just digging the toe-tapping combo.  Will eventually get around to trying the combo with a warmer headphone like the Grado GH-1.  A new problem has surfaced.  I want to try old and new headphones with the Carbon.  Good ortho pairings?  Been a while since I've owned one (HE-4, HE-500, LCD-2, Alpha Dog).  Ether is probably the easy choice, but maybe a good budget ortho.  Sine?
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 2:31 AM Post #262 of 1,260
  HD800S owners that get in on the final production run of the Carbon are going to be happy with the combo.
 
Spotify > iPhone > CCK > Chord Mojo > Blue Jeans Cable > LC > balanced HD800S was a nice treat tonight.  Only had the Mojo a couple days but I like what it is delivering to the LC.  Before that I had the base Pulse + Carbon, a different beast combo than the Mojo + Carbon.  Pulse was technically good, but Mojo has more sauce on the ribs.  No technical breakdown here, but I'm just digging the toe-tapping combo.  Will eventually get around to trying the combo with a warmer headphone like the Grado GH-1.  A new problem has surfaced.  I want to try old and new headphones with the Carbon.  Good ortho pairings?  Been a while since I've owned one (HE-4, HE-500, LCD-2, Alpha Dog).  Ether is probably the easy choice, but maybe a good budget ortho.  Sine?

 
Oh dear god, the vanilla Pulse was terribad.  The Mojo should be a nice upgrade for you!
 
Sine is a great sounding headphone but I find the comfort to be an issue.  Also, it's a portable so not sure why you'd want it in a desktop system... unless you plan to do dual duty with it.  
 
I'd personally recommend the ZMF Vibro mk 2 for a solid budget planar.  It's a great all-arounder with no real weaknesses other than a lack of ultimate resolution... but it's no flagship so that's to be expected.  I reviewed it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/zmf-headphones-x-vibro-mk-ii/reviews/14751
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 2:33 AM Post #263 of 1,260
Oh dear god, the vanilla Pulse was terribad.  The Mojo should be a nice upgrade for you!

Sine is a great sounding headphone but I find the comfort to be an issue.  Also, it's a portable so not sure why you'd want it in a desktop system... unless you plan to do dual duty with it.  

I'd personally recommend the ZMF Vibro mk 2 for a solid budget planar.  It's a great all-arounder with no real weaknesses other than a lack of ultimate resolution... but it's no flagship so that's to be expected.  I reviewed it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/zmf-headphones-x-vibro-mk-ii/reviews/14751


Learned a new word today. :D
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 8:47 AM Post #264 of 1,260
I skipped the first batch trying to convince myself I had enough gear and mainly not to let my temptation win but with the current offering, it's gonna get really tough. I would think the Benchmark DAC2, Violetric v281 or the Grace Design m920 DAC with LC should be tops, difficult to beat at that price.
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 10:12 AM Post #265 of 1,260
I skipped the first batch trying to convince myself I had enough gear and mainly not to let my temptation win but with the current offering, it's gonna get really tough. I would think the Benchmark DAC2, Violetric v281 or the Grace Design m920 DAC with LC should be tops, difficult to beat at that price.

This thread from last year's first run might help:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
 
Guessing that thread will get some new life over the next few months.
 
EDIT: Just saw that thread is locked. Can still be read for reference though.
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 10:27 AM Post #266 of 1,260
  This thread from last year's first run might help:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
 
Guessing that thread will get some new life over the next few months.
 

 
Sorry, that thread's been locked for quite some time.  :frowning2:
 
Apr 7, 2016 at 10:30 AM Post #267 of 1,260
Got it about the terribad Pulse.  As a DAC providing a signal to the LC it was ok.  I got it for cheap way after the whole crowdfunding wait.  The chassis was not spectacular and no ability to update the firmware by the user.  I definitely prefer now the Mojo and my previous DACs like Ciunas and iDSD Micro to the Pulse.  
 
I was thinking dual duty, but in reality I'll probably just use IEMs during my commute.  Also not a big fan of on-ears, but maybe Audeze got the band pressure and pads correct, maybe not.  I will look into the ZMF.  Don't know much about ZMF, though I have made my own pair of modded T50RP, had a pair of woody T50RP made by a fellow head-fier, and had the Alpha Dog, which was better than both of them.  Might try something new, non-T50RP driver, just to hear where the ortho tech is these days.  Gotta get to a local meet to hear the current ortho offerings from budget to hifi (Sine, PM-3, EL-8, HE-560, etc.).  
 
 
 
 
 
Quote:
   
Oh dear god, the vanilla Pulse was terribad.  The Mojo should be a nice upgrade for you!
 
Sine is a great sounding headphone but I find the comfort to be an issue.  Also, it's a portable so not sure why you'd want it in a desktop system... unless you plan to do dual duty with it.  
 
I'd personally recommend the ZMF Vibro mk 2 for a solid budget planar.  It's a great all-arounder with no real weaknesses other than a lack of ultimate resolution... but it's no flagship so that's to be expected.  I reviewed it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/zmf-headphones-x-vibro-mk-ii/reviews/14751

 

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