[Aurimas]

Hey,
I'm planning to go for speaker set-up for main listening. But want to keep headphone set for some ocasions.
Now have Grado RS2e and Audeze LCD-2 (fazor), but thinking about selling one of these (in reality, I love Grado more...) and maybe try Stax. Just for different sound exprience.
Which model I should look first?

 

[jcn3]

I started with Stax recently after a long road (and many years) of headphone discoveries. After a few minutes of listening to the L700 with srm-007II I shouted Eureka! This is it! After a few weeks I got curious of the 007 and could not resist getting a pair. At the same time I could not bare to let the L700 go so I decided to keep both. The 007 has a richer, bigger sound, but the L700 is so perfectly intimate. Listening to the L700 feels like hugging the music itself, completly immersive. Both are the most comfortable Headphones I owned. Both are even more comfortable than Sennheiser hd800/hd800s and Grado GS1000e.

thanks for the description. so i think you're saying: (1) that overall you prefer the l700 because of its immersive nature; (2) you appreciate the huge soundstage of the sr-007, so glad you have it too. is that right?

 

[peter2]

thanks for the description. so i think you're saying: (1) that overall you prefer the l700 because of its immersive nature; (2) you appreciate the huge soundstage of the sr-007, so glad you have it too. is that right?

I love both equally

 

[jcn3]

I love both equally

Hehehe -- such an audio addict answer!

I guess that makes the L700 a better value, though!

 

[peter2]

Hehehe -- such an audio addict answer!

I guess that makes the L700 a better value, though!

That's right

 

[peter2]

Hey,
I'm planning to go for speaker set-up for main listening. But want to keep headphone set for some ocasions.
Now have Grado RS2e and Audeze LCD-2 (fazor), but thinking about selling one of these (in reality, I love Grado more...) and maybe try Stax. Just for different sound exprience.
Which model I should look first?

To be honest, I would not chose Stax for "some occasions". The setup becomes very expensive with a decent amp. For "some occasions" would have stayd with RS2e and a Chord Mojo. That said, I think the sound of the L700 is similar to the Grados Reference series, ie very transperent with a intimate sound stage. The L700 is just more transparent and rich, better in every aspect - and more expensive.

 

[mulveling]

The Trilogy H1 is a total bargain then

It's not going to sound as good as a T2.

 

[JimL11]

Oh exciting times ahead, Trilogy is bringing out an amp to drive the stax headphones, the launch is on July 8 th at hi-fi lounge,5 grand but I bet it will sound amazing, might go back to stax headphones again, can't wait!!!! Nic director of Trilogy and Nigel stax UK distributor will be there on the launch to discuss anything you need to know, oh happy bloody days!!

The Trilogy H1 is a total bargain then

Not a lot of details so far, but what they say is:
1) full vacuum tube design
2) zero feedback
3) high transconductance tubes
4) direct coupled output stage

So, the technical concerns I would have are twofold. First, with zero overall feedback, how do they stabilize the gain, as tubes will invariably drift with warm-up, as they age, etc., resulting in channel imbalances. Second, for a direct coupled output stage, do they use resistor loads or current sources loads for the output tubes. With the former, most of the signal current will inevitably be burned up/wasted in the output resistors, decreasing efficiency and increasing distortion - this is the primary reason why the Stax tube amps have trouble driving the SR007. If you are going to the introductory event, I suggest you ask them about those potential issues directly. I would be very interested to learn if they have satisfactory answers to these questions. If they do not, I would not consider the Trilogy a bargain at 1000 pounds, let alone 5000 - JMHO.

I would also wonder whether this is a balanced in/balanced out amp. Electrostatic headphones are inherently balanced, so balanced out would be important, and a lot of them (all the Stax and KG designs) are also balanced in.

 

[astrostar59]

I would also wonder whether this is a balanced in/balanced out amp. Electrostatic headphones are inherently balanced, so balanced out would be important, and a lot of them (all the Stax and KG designs) are also balanced in.

Jim you sure? I read a recent post by KG on here saying to do a true balanced amp it needs dual PS's and in the case of the T2 for example, he said nobody had ever built one with a 2 box PS. Apologies if I misunderstood this.

 

[kevin gilmore]

All stax made amplifiers and amplifiers made for stax headphones have balanced output
most stax amplifiers have balanced input, and some of the ones that have only unbalanced input can be converted pretty easy

dual mono power supplies is something different and doubles the cost of the power supplies.

 

[JimL11]

Jim you sure? I read a recent post by KG on here saying to do a true balanced amp it needs dual PS's and in the case of the T2 for example, he said nobody had ever built one with a 2 box PS. Apologies if I misunderstood this.

Yes, I'm sure. To elaborate on KG's post. All the modern Stax amps from the SRM-T1 onward are long tailed phase splitter/differential amp input, and differential amp output. The long tailed phase splitter is simply a differential amp with the negative input connected to ground. Differential amps are inherently balanced input, balanced output. Most the Gilmore designs except the original all triode design are also differential amp input, balanced output. The all triode is single-ended in, but balanced out. The SRX, SRX Plus, Egmont, TubeCAD, eXstatA and Liquid Lightning amps are also long tailed phase splitter/differential amp in, differential amp out. Frank Cooter's one-off for Jude is all triode single ended transformer coupled, but the output transformer converts the single ended 845 output to balanced output. This is clear from looking at the schematics.

 

[JimL11]

The never ending 007 and 009 discussion
All been said before, old news etc etc. BUT this week I am in my 'other' home and using my other system:
Mac Mini with uptone audio mod inc LPS > ethernet > Rednet3 with LPS Ethernet > SPDIF > AMR DP-777 tubed NOS DAC > KGSShv Carbon > 007A's 2015.

This is a change for me, as I normally major on the 009s and my Audio Note DAC 5. Taking the DAC out of the equation (I have allowed for the change)

I am thinking about the 007. It is not as fast, clear, wide, or even go as deep as the 009. It is more back of the concert feel, laid back maybe. But having said all that, it does have a character, or dare I say it, it is 'coloured'. This is my view, and will wind up other 007 fans no doubt. But before we get all crazy. I am saying Stax has pulled off something quite special with this 007 version. The coloured sound, or it's character is very attractive to be honest. I know it is there, but I am enjoying it regardless. What speaker isn't coloured? The 007 has a kind of unique warm glow, a glue like flow to the notes and calming delivery. It is odd, and hard to get my finger on it. Everything is calm , nothing to be alarmed about., safe and secure.

A note on volumes, the 007 does need to be played on the side of loud to wake it up, the glue aspect I was referring to earlier. But once you get it going, it is really damb good. At lower levels the weaknesses v the 009 are more apparent. The speed and 3D aspect is obviously lower v the 009, as is the soundstage width and depth. But once my memory of the 009 fades a bit, it is entirely enjoyable in it's 'smaller head stage world'. Details are set back and have less edges, not digital edge, but the start and stopping of the notes type of edges, so clarity and decay are reduced. This is the price for the 007s forgiving nature and it's cosy leather chair character. It is acceptable in my system with a bit of EQuick EQ in A+ to compensate. With the EQ set to +3dB HF shelf from around 3K up to 20K it pretty much sorts out most the lazy treble aspect.

And here I am, enjoying the 007A immensely for 6 hours straight on lots of different music genders. Quite possibly one of the most easy to get on with Stax headphone ever made? I think it may be. It does need lots of juice and fails at lower listing levels somewhat, but as it gets a lot of things very right it is hard to not like it. I also like the look of it and the fit, even though it is an old design now.

If I had to choose I would still have my 009s as the go to HP. But the 007A has got enough of the best Stax has to offer to provide some serious listening pleasure. IMO the big fan base of the 007 could be driven by the above traits, but also it's forgiving nature especially on digital sources. Many DACs can sound dry and brittle, cold and sterile sounding, so the 007s slant to warming things up and it's recessed treble and smooth delivery will go part way to negating those 'problem' DACs brittle treble.

I had to spend some time finding a DAC to 'fix' my own 009s, to get everything to sound right for me, it can be a punishing HP with certain amps and DACs, and IMO has gained some blowback due to that against it's remarkable delivery. I believe it is not unlike when I heard some big Wilson speakers played loud with a poor front end, it sounded awful. But I heard the same speakers 2 years later with a great DAC and they sounded marvellous. Transparency comes at a price, and like too much sugar has negative effects. The rest of the chain need to improve with it IMO. I also believe both the 007 and 009 scale with better front ends and the amp used to drive them, but quite possibly the 009 is on a stepper curve, i.e. it really takes off somewhat once the rest of the chains gets up to scratch.

YMMV but hope this helps someone.

So let me enlarge a bit on an opposing viewpoint. As I have said elsewhere, I have heard a fair amount of live unamplified music, not as much as some, more than others, and I have heard sometimes gross variations in tonal balance, etc., so I have some idea of how much live music varies. I also play the piano recreationally, and know how much individual pianos vary in sound. I am relatively tolerant of equipment flaws. My long time speakers have been original Quad electrostatics, which are widely regarded as relatively neutral, transparent, and "musical" reproducers. I would also add that I have a somewhat different philosophy vs. DACs, which is that the DAC should be as neutral and transparent as possible, as should all the previous links in the reproduction chain, because what you lose upstream you cannot recover downstream.

To me, the Stax SR007 Mk I was a bit too soft, the SR009 a bit bright and the SR007 Mk II with spritzer port mod just about right. I would also note that a brighter tonal balance tends to subjectively result in more transparency. I realize that others on this thread such as astrostar59, Ali-Pacha, arnaud, purk and mulveling all prefer the SR009l. That's fine. But I feel the opposite, as do spritzer, recording engineer Bob Katz and, based on his comments from Big Sound 2015, Tyll Hertsens. Now, this is not to say that we're right and those who disagree are wrong. But, simply to point out that the SR009, although nearly twice as expensive, is not THE TOTL Stax headphone. In my view, the SR009 did not displace the SR007 at the top of the Stax heap, they are equally valid as TOTL headphones and either can be considered an end-stage phone, depending on subjective preference.

 

[kevin gilmore]

The reason why you might want to go with dual separated power supplies (one set of power supplies per channel) is the decrease in crosstalk.
Built right you can probably get 6 to 8 db more channel separation. This is for both dynamic and electrostatic amps.
Of course the size of the power supply doubles, the cost of the power supply doubles etc. So a kgsshv-carbon built that way has to be a two box setup.

 

[JimL11]

The reason why you might want to go with dual separated power supplies (one set of power supplies per channel) is the decrease in crosstalk.
Built right you can probably get 6 to 8 db more channel separation. This is for both dynamic and electrostatic amps.
Of course the size of the power supply doubles, the cost of the power supply doubles etc. So a kgsshv-carbon built that way has to be a two box setup.

This is the same reason that some people like to use dual mono preamps and mono power amps in their speaker set-ups. Better performance, more cost, more space.

 

[Whitigir]

This is the same reason that some people like to use dual mono preamps and mono power amps in their speaker set-ups. Better performance, more cost, more space.

Well, obviously, if cost is a 0 issues, then every gains after the diminishing return will be worth it. However, in reality, not so much