iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 / PCM768 DAC and Headphone Amp. Impressions, Reviews and Comments.
Nov 24, 2014 at 12:06 PM Post #1,636 of 9,047
 
wow, interesting graphs.
am I wrong in interpreting these graphs that


 
a) BitPerfect filter is the noisiest
and
b) upsample to 768/24 or DSD512 if possible?


Hi,

 
From our Thorsten on his tea break:

 
Interesting yes, but in more ways. If you do not mind our commenting (and this is just our comments nothing more nothing less):

 
1st set of graphs
The first set of graphs show the output from iDSD with the actual audio range compressed into the very first fraction of a millimetre and shows RF signals up to a frequency of 5MHz. So the graph shows the output at high and very high supersonic frequencies. These graphs do not reveal anything whatsoever about what happens in the audible range.


 
At the latest count not even the most golden ear’d of audiophiles have claimed to hear noise at several MHz directly. The extant literature fails to support such a feat of hearing for even Dracula himself in bat form and while one may conceive that the Almighty One or the Archangel Emanuel may be capable of such a feat we'd probably ask them to pass an ABX test on that first.


 
It is debatable to what degree the high and super high frequencies influence other replay equipment, but no matter what, the frequencies themselves are entirely inaudible, they can cause audible problems only by interaction with other gear and if the rest of the system relies on well-designed equipment, there should be no issue. And if there is, with Bitperfect or Minimum-Phase filters, simply use the standard filter instead.

 
2nd set of graphs

 
The second set of graphs is a bit more telling of in and near audio band noise. It is worth noting the different frequency scales for the bitperfect filter and the other filters and it would probably be better to see all graphs on the same scale to be able to draw fair conclusions. Mmm.


 
Looking only at the graphs that are directly comparable we find that any changes caused by up-sampling to 768kHz externally compared to the iDSD micro's build in filters are below -110dB and/or supersonic. Noisefloor is basically the same. If converting PCM to DSD we see a rising in-audio band noisefloor, though the different amplitude scales between DSD256 and DSD512 make it hard to see just how much is going on.


 
How much of the above happens to be artifact of the actual test gear is also open to question. All test gear has limits. Wisely the gentleman who posted these measurements has generally refrained from making any comments that attempt to relate the measured results to anything meaningfully audible, as such a thing would not be an easy thing, if defensible at all.


 
Yet any owner of the iDSD micro can make an experiment in this line.


 
To obtain 352.8kHz/384kHz upsampling simply engage the digital filter. As the graphs show, the differences between this and external 768kHz upsampling are quite small. If you prefer using the standard digital filter then you may prefer the external upsampler too. If you prefer minimum phase filtering (which allows more ultrasonic noise than standard) or G*d forbid the horribly noisy (above the audio range anyway - a consequence of not applying any digital filtering) Bitperfect filter, then any other upsampler will likely not work for you either.


 
In the same line, as long as the OS is windows and the playback software supports ASIO, it is easy to try out DSD256 or DSD512 conversion of PCM using ASIO-Proxy. Again, if you like the result better than straight PCM with any of the available filters, maybe you will like other conversion software even better. Then again maybe Bitperfect is preferred.


 
The nice thing with the iDSD micro is that you can try it all out with the iDSD micro for yourself: PCM up/oversampling, DSD conversion, you name it.


 
Take a listen for yourself and draw the conclusions for yourself, rather than listen to what anyone suggests you should hear.


 
Somewhat of a long way round but in the end, graphs don’t mean they are more authoritative just because they have lots of squiggles.

 
We just wanted to offer a more rounded perspective. 
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Nov 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM Post #1,637 of 9,047
wow how I love the Engineers at iFi Audio!
beerchug.gif

 
Nov 24, 2014 at 12:19 PM Post #1,638 of 9,047
The posts on these past 2 pages have been useful.  I had trouble playing DSD256 and I didn't mind that much because all of my DSD files are from free demos.  I didn't know Mac and Amarra player were the bottleneck rather than the Micro iDSD.  I just looked up the Amarra player and it only supports DSD64 and DSD128.  
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 12:41 PM Post #1,640 of 9,047
ok can i at least get a consensus does the ifi idsd sound warm, rich with good bass extension, and is not shouty
 
please whoever finds it that way please confirm, as i am not wanting to get a unit that is thin and shouty and not good bass extension
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 2:30 PM Post #1,641 of 9,047
I haven't used an external amp with the iDSD but the on-board amp has good bass extension with the TH-600, PS-500, and HE-500.  I don't feel that I am missing any detail, extension, and texture that these headphones can deliver.  This is hard to quantify but in the past I've owned some really good standalone amps from Decware, Violectric, Schiit, etc.  Not to say that the integrated amp on the iFi trounces those other amps but just to say that I was not disappointed in what I was hearing from the iDSD's amp section.  
 
I have owned "full-sounding" DACs like the Anedio D2, W4S DAC-2, and one of my favorites the J.Kenny Ciunas.  The iDSD is not-thin sounding in comparison.  Something like the Oppo BDP-105 was more thin-sounding, not in a bad way, but just had a different presentation.  
 
I'm no expert, but after having owned some really nice gear, I find the iDSD at $499 a no-brainer and I don't have a problem using something that costs 2-3X less than my past DACs alone.  On top of the the DAC section we get a pretty good amp section.  I wasn't expecting the HE-500 to sound as good coming from this little unit, but I was pleasantly surprised.
 
I'm not sure what shouty is but I do hear that term a lot.  Couldn't find it in the glossary http://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary-r-s or http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary .  I can say that the experience is not fatiguing nor is the unit introducing grain into the sound.  Slightly warm.  Another subjective term but I mean it with good weight to the bottom end, but not excessive.  For the most part, you will hear what your headphone can do and the iDSD is not overly affecting the sound which is clean, transparent, and sufficiently detailed.  By no means boring.  
 
Quote:
  ok can i at least get a consensus does the ifi idsd sound warm, rich with good bass extension, and is not shouty
 
please whoever finds it that way please confirm, as i am not wanting to get a unit that is thin and shouty and not good bass extension

 
Nov 24, 2014 at 4:37 PM Post #1,643 of 9,047
No way micro iDSD is shouty (upper mids boosted), nor thin (lacks bass). Use Minimum Phase. This is the best digital filter to hear their house sound IMHO.
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM Post #1,644 of 9,047
Maybe some setting wrong?

Using the Micro iDSD connected to my hi-fi home system (PC with Foobar to the integrated amplifier, using the analog outputs RCA)
I did all the possible tests, comparing the Micro iDSD with my old DVD player (a Sony DVP-S715 of the 2002), well the old Sony wins hands down, using the same tracks, the same connection, the same volume, with the Micro iDSD the scene draw backs, closes and loses in dynamic and three-dimensional to lack a sense of presence and air compared to Sony, with "The Four Seasons" by Vivaldi, played the violin through the Micro iDSD seems mono-chord, especially in the area of ​​the right stage, the arches are barely present, and a general sense of information is missing sound.

The Micro iDSD is set in Eco mode, Biperfect, Direct

Something wrong?
I hope so

someone did similar tests?

P.S.
Sorry for my bad English


Hi,

We suggest to use the SPDIF out from the Sony DVD to iDSD micro and compare directly the same recording etc.

This leaves out the Computer Audio Setup side of things - out of the listening equation. iTunes, JRMC, optimisation and other things all impact the sound on the PC side

Thanks.


I think I found the problem, listening with the speakers lacked something to the whole scene, especially on the right channel, today I tried to connect headphones, and with surprise I noticed that with the volume up to nine hours, works only the left channel .
What to do?
someone else has the same problem with channel inbalanced? I have to send him to RMA?
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 6:03 PM Post #1,646 of 9,047
I think I found the problem, listening with the speakers lacked something to the whole scene, especially on the right channel, today I tried to connect headphones, and with surprise I noticed that with the volume up to nine hours, works only the left channel .
What to do?
someone else has the same problem? I have to send him to RMA?

What type of recording you playing on PC? What file type/format?

I play WAV file format on my Mac and comparing it with my CD player the sound is even bit better with my Mac. Can you show us a pic of your setup?
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM Post #1,648 of 9,047
What type of recording you playing on PC? What file type/format?

I play WAV file format on my Mac and comparing it with my CD player the sound is even bit better with my Mac. Can you show us a pic of your setup?

 
I plays wav files,
these are the albums that I always use as a test,and know every nuance:
 
Chesky Records (CD)
Performer: Connecticut Early Music Festival Ensemble, Igor Kipnis
http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000003GDQ
 
Telarc (SACD, play CD layer)
Performer: Ozawa / Boston Symphony / Silverstein
http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B00005Q46G
 
Fonè (SACD, play CD layer)
Performer: Marco Fornaciari, Giuseppe Volpato, Antonio De Lorenzi
http://www.fone.it/shop/shop.php?action=mostraScheda&cID=2&pID=25
 
my setup is connected directly to the amp means RCA:
 
1) PC (Windows 7)-->Foobar-->USB-->iDSD-->RCA to the amp
2) DVD Player-->Spdif-->iDsD--RCA to the amp
3) DVD Player-->RCA to the amp
 
And in all three cases, the old DVD Player sounds better

the Micro iDSD has a problem of unbalance of the channels,
compared to dvd, lack of information to the sound message on the right side, noticeable also with the speakers,

I do not use headphones
 
 
Sorry for my bad English
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 6:43 PM Post #1,649 of 9,047
Another question, which mode did you have the Micro at when playing through your speakers? What did you use for volume control? What was the computer's volume set at?
 
Nov 24, 2014 at 6:45 PM Post #1,650 of 9,047
IMO, if it is conncted to an amp via RCA, then the iDSD's amp is bypassed, thus, the problem shouldn't be iDSD's. Have you checked your external amp volume is beyond 9 o'clock? Or 12 o'clock for some amp I tried long ago. Not sure the brand thought.
 

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