[Whitigir]

I'm not doubting you. My undergrad was in astrophysics, so I like to think that I know just enough to be dangerous when it comes to E&M. I'm certainly not qualified to call myself an EE, but I'm not exactly a total rookie either. My problem is there is so much confirmation bias on so many posts that I get uncomfortable listening to anyone that doesn't have a modicum of understanding of the fundamental principles. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but I tend to discount those that can't articulate why something they hear is borne in actual science. If you can derive it then I can follow you. Sadly a lot of what gets discussed here never goes that far.

So here I sit, very confused. Do I invest in a better amp with the hopes of better detail retrival and increased PRAT responses while I ponder the thought that the HA-1 is already sufficiently powered and offeres good slew rates, or do I invest in DAC tech which supposedly increases soundstage and increased high end retrieval, but ABX testing seems to be non-existent. Or a third option: move away from USB and focus on optical input, or use a DDC to leverage AES inputs and eliminate a possible limiting factor of interconnection noise.

I just want to give these headphones a shot at even more awesomeness.

Just not at any cost...

Well, you go with what you feel most comfortable with . And it is always best to try and listen to it yourself before making any purchases.

 

[Allanmarcus]

I'm not doubting you. My undergrad was in astrophysics, so I like to think that I know just enough to be dangerous when it comes to E&M. I'm certainly not qualified to call myself an EE, but I'm not exactly a total rookie either. My problem is there is so much confirmation bias on so many posts that I get uncomfortable listening to anyone that doesn't have a modicum of understanding of the fundamental principles. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but I tend to discount those that can't articulate why something they hear is borne in actual science. If you can derive it then I can follow you. Sadly a lot of what gets discussed here never goes that far.

So here I sit, very confused. Do I invest in a better amp with the hopes of better detail retrival and increased PRAT responses while I ponder the thought that the HA-1 is already sufficiently powered and offeres good slew rates, or do I invest in DAC tech which supposedly increases soundstage and increased high end retrieval, but ABX testing seems to be non-existent. Or a third option: move away from USB and focus on optical input, or use a DDC to leverage AES inputs and eliminate a possible limiting factor of interconnection noise.

I just want to give these headphones a shot at even more awesomeness.

Just not at any cost...

I had the HA-1 and generally I cannot hear the difference between cables or DAC, or even amps sometimes. I got a Mimby and the difference between the mimby DAC and the Oppo HA-1 DAC was audible. The mimby was smother (less harsh) and has better bass.

Note, when I got the bimby and A/B tested against the mimby, I could not hear a difference. The mimby was silver and the bimby is black, so the bimby stayed

I can definitely hear a difference between the Mjolnir 2 and the Taurus Mk2. Same thing; the Mj2 is smoother.

From what I've read the moon is a warm amp, as amps go, which might smooth out the oppo DAC. I would get a Gumby and see if that is an upgrade for you. Don't assume the yggy is better just because it costs more. There are many that prefer the gumby (the yggy is, however, a great dac)

All of this advice assumes the Utopia as the primary can. The goal being to bring out the lush, detailed sound the Utopia is capable of.

It would also help if you described what sort of sound you are looking for, and you feel is missing. Lots of folks here have some very expensive gear, and it can be intimidating and make a person feel like they need to spend more money (yes, we know the Dave is great. Go it.). If you like spending money for that purpose or you have the money, then go for it. If you are looking to maximize RTO for your gear, the more specific you are, the better we can help.

 

[kingkikapu]

I had the HA-1 and generally I cannot hear the difference between cables or DAC, or even amps sometimes. I got a Mimby and the difference between the mimby DAC and the Oppo HA-1 DAC was audible. The mimby was smother (less harsh) and has better bass.

Note, when I got the bimby and A/B tested against the mimby, I could not hear a difference. The mimby was silver and the bimby is black, so the bimby stayed

I can definitely hear a difference between the Mjolnir 2 and the Taurus Mk2. Same thing; the Mj2 is smoother.

From what I've read the moon is a warm amp, as amps go, which might smooth out the oppo DAC. I would get a Gumby and see if that is an upgrade for you. Don't assume the yggy is better just because it costs more. There are many that prefer the gumby (the yggy is, however, a great dac)

All of this advice assumes the Utopia as the primary can. The goal being to bring out the lush, detailed sound the Utopia is capable of.

It would also help if you described what sort of sound you are looking for, and you feel is missing. Lots of folks here have some very expensive gear, and it can be intimidating and make a person feel like they need to spend more money (yes, we know the Dave is great. Go it.). If you like spending money for that purpose or you have the money, then go for it. If you are looking to maximize RTO for your gear, the more specific you are, the better we can help.

Thanks for the reply bud. I too have a difficult time differentiating between cables and often focus on ergonomics or cable quality. Not enough DAC's to tell if I can tell the difference, but I've noticed which input method you use on DAC's can have significant impact on sound quality (USB vs Optical vs AES). Unfortunately each DAC implementation is different...

As for signature I'm looking for: I really love the detail retrieval of Utopia compared to other cans (I compared to LCD3, HEK, HD800), but also dig some warmth. My biggest complaint of Utopia is lack of relative bass, but I've corrected that with some EQ and am happy with the results (it's like they were born for it!). I would appreciate even a bit more PRAT if possible and would probably be interested in a warmer amp (HA430 or LAu), but also appreciate detail (GSX Mk2). Tubes aren't really my thing. I was just A/Bing with my old LCD 2.2's and boy, what a difference in detail and coherence. God damn they are so clear and lush. I don't regret purchasing Utopia at all. I'd like to find a combination that makes them slam a bit more if possible.
As for DAC's: I've been interested in Gumby, Yggy, and possibly something by Chord. Not necessarily focused on price, but would appreciate a noticeable improvement for the investment of going separates. HA-1 has been a great do-it-all, but there are probably better ways to skin the cat at this point.

 

[Whazzzup]

Wait for susvara and take a listen. GSX mk2 is the bloom that you don't know is there. Test chord TT and holo spring kitson level 3 as dacs.

 

[kingkikapu]

Wait for susvara and take a listen. GSX mk2 is the bloom that you don't know is there. Test chord TT and holo spring kitson level 3 as dacs.

What do you mean by the GSXmk2 comment? I forgot to list Spring KTE3 as well. I've read a bit on TT and am not 100% sold on the value proposition (seems pricey). Guess that means Dave is probably a no go for me lol. It better make me a sandwich for that kind of money (or more if you get my drift).

 

[rnros]

As for DAC's: I've been interested in Gumby, Yggy, and possibly something by Chord. Not necessarily focused on price, but would appreciate a noticeable improvement for the investment of going separates. HA-1 has been a great do-it-all, but there are probably better ways to skin the cat at this point.

Most likely, at some point you will explore the the DAC designs beyond the D/S approach. The Schiit Multibits are probably the lowest price entry points, that's not saying they are less in performance, so far it seems the Yiggy and Gumby Multibits are still in the top handful of designs. So you need to actually listen to one of them.

My bet is that it sets a new foundation for what you can find and appreciate in the typical (well-recorded) sound signal. As far as Yggy vs Gumby, folks vary on what they prefer, but the similarities far outpace the differences. Although, spare yourself the time and effort on connection issues and use a COAX or AES feed.
This is one of the older comparison threads, there are more on Head-Fi and other forums:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison.785369/

And of course this thread, if you haven't already found it:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/life-after-yggdrasil.804153/

 

[figaro69]

Most likely, at some point you will explore the the DAC designs beyond the D/S approach. The Schiit Multibits are probably the lowest price entry points, that's not saying they are less in performance, so far it seems the Yiggy and Gumby Multibits are still in the top handful of designs. So you need to actually listen to one of them.

My bet is that it sets a new foundation for what you can find and appreciate in the typical (well-recorded) sound signal. As far as Yggy vs Gumby, folks vary on what they prefer, but the similarities far outpace the differences. Although, spare yourself the time and effort on connection issues and use a COAX or AES feed.
This is one of the older comparison threads, there are more on Head-Fi and other forums:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison.785369/

And of course this thread, if you haven't already found it:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/life-after-yggdrasil.804153/

.

 

[ubs28]

What do you mean by the GSXmk2 comment? I forgot to list Spring KTE3 as well. I've read a bit on TT and am not 100% sold on the value proposition (seems pricey). Guess that means Dave is probably a no go for me lol. It better make me a sandwich for that kind of money (or more if you get my drift).

Maybe try wait for the Hugo 2.

Some people who heard it said it sounded like a mini Dave. Seems like a very good value proposition if that is the case.

I haven't heard it myself so I cannot confirm whether it is true or not.

 

[Matez]

Maybe try wait for the Hugo 2.

Some people who heard it said it sounded like a mini Dave. Seems like a very good value proposition if that is the case.

I haven't heard it myself so I cannot confirm whether it is true or not.

*IF* that's the case indeed. Dave is great. I'd really like someone to compare these two Chord DACs.

 

[Whazzzup]

What do you mean by the GSXmk2 comment? I forgot to list Spring KTE3 as well. I've read a bit on TT and am not 100% sold on the value proposition (seems pricey). Guess that means Dave is probably a no go for me lol. It better make me a sandwich for that kind of money (or more if you get my drift).

After much a/b using TT as a dac, in the realm of general chord analogue transparency ( Hugo TT Dave ) gsx mk2 biggest compliment is you will hardly notice That it's there, you can taste the bloom and slight difference but really it steps out of the way. So you get what your source is and dac is, so if your looking for a sound change from gsx mk2 go elsewear. Holo spring 3 is great value for what it is....
Lastly I know it's early and the price point will be a turn off, looking forward to susvara analysis and opinions amongst flagships...

 

[jrfmd]

Completely agreed!

Completely agreed!

I have the hd800 and the utopia, both driven by the dave and I must say I completely disagree
so there you have it
Jeff

 

[MacedonianHero]

I have the hd800 and the utopia, both driven by the dave and I must say I completely disagree
so there you have it
Jeff

Have what?

FWIW, I preferred the Utopia that much more next to the HD800 from the DAVE. I found the HD800S a better option. YMMV of course.

 

[paradoxper]

.

You're clear for an ODAC and O2

 

[kingkikapu]

You're clear for an ODAC and O2

Will it make me a sandwich?

 

[paradoxper]

Will it make me a sandwich?

It won't matter, if you can't tell the difference between DACs.