[BogdanUK]

Glad you found a good fit. I've found that most AT phones aren't the best for bass, but rather excel at mids and highs. With those EQ settings, you might also consider a +1 or +2 at 250Hz to see if you get a bit more thump out of the drums in a lot of 90s stuff.

+2 dB at 250Hz worked great...see I am not a sound engineer or anything similar and EQing is a job that requires some knowledge if you expect good results but I am willing to learn....I am a network engineer after all
I have made notes of all the EQ & digital filters settings I read on this forum...and I have learned many things...so yes I am happy with this forum. Thank you
I am seriously considering selling my MSR7 and buy something with more thump mainly in the bass frequencies. Curiously the commercial brands like Sony and JVC excel there but all it matters, in the end, is the happiness of my ears

 

[Francisk]

You do realize that there's a slight bug in the firmware where changing the EQ or digital filters a few times while music is playing makes the EQ quit responding or the digital filters not change? I usually pause the track playing, change the filter, then restart the track to see differences. Even then, it'll occasionally not update (and seemingly revert to SHARP for the filters or no EQ if the EQ is affected). You'll have to reboot the device, change your settings, and then restart your track.

I don't consider it a priority bug, as once you figure out your settings, you won't be changing these items very often. So for me, it was the first day or so that I was annoyed, but once I settled on Super Slow/Short Delay Slow and my EQ bump of +2/31Hz, +1/63Hz, +1/8KHz, and +2/16KHz, the bug was forgotten as I haven't had to touch my settings.

Thanks for sharing your views docholliday however I did not notice these bugs you mentioned because I don't use the internal EQ of the N3. I'll do some more testing on the five digital filters and see if I need a reboot to hear the changes because I noticed that changing some filter presets do not change the sound at all. Looks like Cayin needs to release another update to rectify this issue and hopefully rectify the edgy high frequencies too. Attenuating the high frequencies will not solve this problem because it will affect the high frequency extension and details.

 

[Francisk]

I'd like to report that the CTIA remote support does not work on both iPhone and Android standard remote IEMs on my N3. I've tried every setting possible but my N3 CTIA remote support still doesn't work. Does anybody here have the same issue? Please share your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

 

[nmatheis]

Begin Public Service Announcement

I've seen quite a few posts recently (and had some PM's) asking which has better sound quality - Cayin N3 or Shanling M2s. I'm going to state right now that I'm not going to tell you that one has better SQ vs the other. What I will do is listen to your needs / preferences and try my best to help you make the right decision. To some that might seem like a cop-out, but it's not. It's simply me putting my philosophy on helping others into practice, and it actually takes more energy on my part than simply saying one is better than the other. I hope people can understand and respect that.

End Public Service Announcement

 

[Francisk]

Begin Public Service Announcement

I've seen quite a few posts recently (and had some PM's) asking which has better sound quality - Cayin N3 or Shanling M2s. I'm going to state right now that I'm not going to tell you that one has better SQ vs the other. What I will do is listen to your needs / preferences and try my best to help you make the right decision. To some that might seem like a cop-out, but it's not. It's simply me putting my philosophy on helping others into practice, and it actually takes more energy on my part than simply saying one is better than the other. I hope people can understand and respect that.

End Public Service Announcement

Hi nmatheis, I recently purchased the Cayin N3 after reading your review. I have to admit that the N3 is a good sounding DAP for the price but there's a few things that I'm not too happy about. Firstly, the high frequencies seem to have an edgy digital edge which is not as refined as my iBasso DX90 but in all fairness, the DX90 is about twice the price of the N3. I've tried all the digital filters but I've found that "Sharp" setting has edgy digital highs, "Short dealy Sharp" setting still has that digital edginess to it and the rest of the settings cut off too much of the high frequency extension, Secondly, the CTIA remote support is not working with my iPhone as well as my Android remote standard IEMS. There's no settings on the N3 to change the CTIA support setting so I assume I have an N3 with defective CTIA remote support. It's really a shame because I really really like the N3. I don't know if Cayin will develop a future firmware update to remedy both these issues,

I actually prefer the sound signature of my DX90 but unfortunately it doesn't have Bluetooth streaming and it doesn't have DSD support. I have also checked out the Aune M1s and I really like the sound quality but unfortunately it doesn't have Bluetooth streaming support. The reason why I'm looking for Bluetooth streaming support with Apt-X is because I want to stream Spotify and Tidal from my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge and also my iPad and laptop too. Occasionally I'd also want to stream audio from my Smart TV so that I can watch the TV while my wife is asleep

I've been looking around and noticed that you just received the Shanling M2s which has almost identical specs with the N3 and was wondering if the sound quality is along the line of DX90 and Aune M1s. Please share your honest opinion and perhaps that will help me and other users decide if we should upgrade to the M2s. Thanks for your ongoing contribution to the HeadFi community. I look forward to hear from you.

PS: Sorry for the long post. I tried to PM you but somehow the PM link is not available on the new updated HeadFi forum.

 

[docholliday]

Hi nmatheis, I recently purchased the Cayin N3 after reading your review. I have to admit that the N3 is a good sounding DAP for the price but there's a few things that I'm not too happy about. Firstly, the high frequencies seem to have an edgy digital edge which is not as refined as my iBasso DX90 but in all fairness, the DX90 is about twice the price of the N3. I've tried all the digital filters but I've found that "Sharp" setting has edgy digital highs, "Short dealy Sharp" setting still has that digital edginess to it and the rest of the settings cuts off too much of the high frequency extension, Secondly, the CTIA remote support is not working with my iPhone as well as my Android standard IEMS. There's no settings on the N3 to change the CTIA support setting so I assume I have an N3 with defective CTIA remote support. It's really a shame because I really really like the N3. I don't know if Cayin will develop a future firmware update to remedy both these issues,

I actually prefer the sound signature of my DX90 but unfortunately it doesn't have Bluetooth streaming and it doesn't have DSD support. I have also checked out the Aune M1s and I really like the sound quality but unfortunately it doesn't have Bluetooth streaming support. The reason why I'm looking for Bluetooth streaming support with Apt-X is because I want to stream Spotify and Tidal from my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge and also my iPad and laptop too. Occasionally I'd also want to stream audio from my Smart TV so that I can watch the TV while my wife is asleep

I've been looking around and noticed that you just received the Shanling M2s which has almost identical specs with the N3 and was wondering if the sound quality is along the line of DX90 and Aune M1s. Please share your honest opinion and perhaps that will help me and other users decide if we should upgrade to the M2s. Thanks for your ongoing contribution to the HeadFi community. I look forward to hear from you.

PS: Sorry for the long post. I tried to PM you but somehow the PM link is not available on the new updated HeadFi forum.

I don't get any noticeable frequency cutoff with the Short Delay Slow filter. The Super Slow runs at .5x sampling on the digital filter so it does cut a bit off. But, I don't experience the edginess of highs that you are describing, not even when compared to the raw audio coming out of a mixing board before recording and playback on the N3. Yes, the sharp filters have completely distorted the cymbals and high strings, but once I changed the filter, all was well.

Have you tried re-installing the current firmware on top of itself, performing a reset, and trying from there? I don't use remotes or BT with my N3, don't use iProducts or Android, and don't use streaming audio, so I have no idea on that. But, there's many times where I've ran into issues with firmware updates not completely updating internal data tables despite the firmware itself completing successfully. This happens a lot with motherboard BIOS updates... Running an additional update or two of the same firmware has resolved the issue, usually with a CMOS clear at the end.

 

[Francisk]

I don't get any noticeable frequency cutoff with the Short Delay Slow filter. The Super Slow runs at .5x sampling on the digital filter so it does cut a bit off. But, I don't experience the edginess of highs that you are describing, not even when compared to the raw audio coming out of a mixing board before recording and playback on the N3. Yes, the sharp filters have completely distorted the cymbals and high strings, but once I changed the filter, all was well.

Have you tried re-installing the current firmware on top of itself, performing a reset, and trying from there? I don't use remotes or BT with my N3, don't use iProducts or Android, and don't use streaming audio, so I have no idea on that. But, there's many times where I've ran into issues with firmware updates not completely updating internal data tables despite the firmware itself completing successfully. This happens a lot with motherboard BIOS updates... Running an additional update or two of the same firmware has resolved the issue, usually with a CMOS clear at the end.

Thanks for your input docholliday. I assume the new v1.1 firmware updated successfully on my N3 because every new features on v1.1 are implemented. Btw the "Short Delay Slow Filter" indeed smooths the highs a tad too much and to my ears it does attenuate the highs where some high frequency details are lost. I'll try installing the update and then do a full reset again and see if that helps. Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[nmatheis]

@Francisk - We must have different preferences or because I was never fully satisfied with naturalness of the treble on my DX90, whereas I'm fine with it with my N3. Regarding M2s, I need more time to get to know it before making recommendations.

 

[twister6]

@Francisk - also want to add, since I'm suspecting you probably referring to my review which you have read on Head-fi, what problems are you having with your headphones and in-line remote? I have tested N3 with separate android and ios specific iems and play/pause/skip works without a problem. If you are expecting volume control with in-line remote, that is not supported, but playback control does. If you can't play/pause from your headphones with N3, can you try another pair of headphones to make sure it's a consistent behavior and not something related to that one pair?

 

[Francisk]

Thanks to both your replies nmatheis and twister 6.

@twister6 - I have tried using my Phonak PFE002 (iOS support) and my LG Quadbeat 3 tuned by AKG (Android OS support) and both can't even play/pause/skip, let alone control volume. Both IEMs' in-line remote are functioning perfectly on my Samsung S7 Edge and my iPhone 4S. Either my N3 CTIA support is faulty or maybe the new v1.1 update disabled the CTIA support on my N3. If that's the case, Cayin needs to fix this on the next N3 firmware update.

 

[Andykong]

The N3 case will be available in China by end of this week. if the stock arrive earlier, we might be able to bring it forward a couple of day. We have contacted our oversee dealers already, the availability of the case to oversee customers will depend on the respond time of our dealers.

I had compiled this message before HeadFi initiated the site-maintenance which end up as a complete site revamping. The moment I hit the send reply button, the HeadFi site goes into "maintenance mode", I waited for one day, and the site goes into "read only mode". I waited for another day, and then I saw the new site, but I can't login. My password is not working and this has been widely reported as one of the problem with the new HeadFi site, the solution is quite simply, just reset the password. Unfortunately I have changed my email address and the email that was registered at Headfi is no longer available so I can't do that. I finally get HeadFi to manually changed my password for me so that I can login and then changed back to my regular password again.

I shall try my best to catch up with N3 discussion in next few days. If I have missed a question somehow, please repost and I'll try to respond ASAP.

 

[Andykong]

Regarding the digital output of N3, I shall clarify our thinking and implementation, and we can work out a solution that fit the customer need if needed.

1. The volume control, EQ, and Gain Control of N3 are all happening at digital domain, so having volume control, EQ and Gain control in digital output does not require processing the audio signal from D to A, and then A to D again.
2. N3 is operated under non-oversampling (NOS) DAC concept, the digital output are, by nature, NOS output.
3. Is NOS output equivalent to bit-perfect digital output? Not exactly if you must pursue the ultimate digital reference. However, N3 was never aim as a "reference" class product given the price and market segment we have targeted.
4. Cayin always workout a detail product positioning and design compromises plan during the early stage of each product, and we don't copycat the plan from previous product conveniently, Cayin believes that with the exception of flagship product, all product are full of compromises, maintaining high C/P and correct market positioning is therefore the key to successful products.
5. N3, as our entry level products, aims at a relatively mass market when compare to our other DAP. We believe N3 has strive a very good balance between sound quality vs feature/versatile. On the issue of digital output, we stay at NOS digital output as it allows us to provide a high quality digital audio output with the added benefit of volume control, EQ and gain control. The different between the current setting and a bit-perfect setting is minimal, and probably inaudible unless you are using a very high quality (and most likely very expensive) outboard DAC product.
   
6. As a matter of fact, we do have customers feedback on how they appreciate the added features in the digital output, especially when EQ is still functional at digital output.
7. We can bypass the Volume control and Gain Control on digital output if that's the preference of our customers. The output will remain at "native" volume, and this can be implemented through a firmware modification.
8. The EQ feature has an EQ off option already and that will bypass the EQ processing completely, so we don't need to change that.

Now I want to hear your opinion on this take. This is something that we can implement easily so we tend to listening to our customers. After-all, we build products to satisfy our customers' need.

 

[Francisk]

Welcome back Andykong, it's good to know that you take great interest in Cayin's users' experience. The first product that I purchased from Cayin several years ago was the C5 preamp which I'm very very happy with. The N3 is my second purchase and hopefully more to come. I've had an overall good experience with both my Cayin products but as usual, good products will only get better with users' honest feedback and Cayin's ongoing development of firmware updates to further improve the product.

Here's some of my honest feedback on N3 after using it for a week:

1.) A very good sounding and feature packed DAP for the price second to none as of now. My only suggestion is to minimse the digital edginess of the high frequencies around 9kHz and above without affecting the high frequency extension, something more in line with the Aune M1s' (slightly more expensive than N3) high frequency performance. I've tried all the 5 different filter settings but it's either a compromise of digital edginess or overly smoothed highs at the expense of losing the high frequency extension.

2.) Please get the CTIA remote function working. I'm not sure if other users are experiencing the same problem but my N3's CTIA remote function is definitely not working with all my IEMs' in-line remote's play/pause/skip function, which are working perfectly fine on either my Samsung S7 Edge, iPhone 4S and the rest of my iOS and Android devices.

I hope Cayin will continue to make further improvements to the N3 to make it a far greater product. Thank you.

 

[Francisk]

Regarding the digital output of N3, I shall clarify our thinking and implementation, and we can work out a solution that fit the customer need if needed.

1. The volume control, EQ, and Gain Control of N3 are all happening at digital domain, so having volume control, EQ and Gain control in digital output does not require processing the audio signal from D to A, and then A to D again.
2. N3 is operated under non-oversampling (NOS) DAC concept, the digital output are, by nature, NOS output.
3. Is NOS output equivalent to bit-perfect digital output? Not exactly if you must pursue the ultimate digital reference. However, N3 was never aim as a "reference" class product given the price and market segment we have targeted.
4. Cayin always workout a detail product positioning and design compromises plan during the early stage of each product, and we don't copycat the plan from previous product conveniently, Cayin believes that with the exception of flagship product, all product are full of compromises, maintaining high C/P and correct market positioning is therefore the key to successful products.
5. N3, as our entry level products, aims at a relatively mass market when compare to our other DAP. We believe N3 has strive a very good balance between sound quality vs feature/versatile. On the issue of digital output, we stay at NOS digital output as it allows us to provide a high quality digital audio output with the added benefit of volume control, EQ and gain control. The different between the current setting and a bit-perfect setting is minimal, and probably inaudible unless you are using a very high quality (and most likely very expensive) outboard DAC product.
   
6. As a matter of fact, we do have customers feedback on how they appreciate the added features in the digital output, especially when EQ is still functional at digital output.
7. We can bypass the Volume control and Gain Control on digital output if that's the preference of our customers. The output will remain at "native" volume, and this can be implemented through a firmware modification.
8. The EQ feature has an EQ off option already and that will bypass the EQ processing completely, so we don't need to change that.

Now I want to hear your opinion on this take. This is something that we can implement easily so we tend to listening to our customers. After-all, we build products to satisfy our customers' need.

Honestly, I can live with the NOS DAC concept as long as the final output is totally clean and undistorted. I personally have the EQ turned off so the EQ section does not affect me. This is of course my own personal opinion and I'm not speaking on behalf of other N3 users.

 

[velasfloyd]

@Andykong thank you for your clarifications and answers! I know the specs say iOS is not supported, but anyway: Can the N3 works as an external dac/amp for my iPhone (using the CCK). Im interested in using my iphone as a music source and take adventage of N3 hardware. May another user has already tested this?