[longbowbbs]

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Troll alert!
 

Hehehehehe.......why pray tell where these folks dressed up on Feb 23? LOL

American Berkibeiner Cross Country ski race in Hayward, Wisconsin. 10,000 skiers....50km race. Nordic events require Trolls!

 

[Xinze]

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Before we talk about anything else, you do not talk to me like that. Or to anyone on this forum for that matter. I highly doubt that you would do so face to face, so please do not do it on this forum. Please stay polite.
 
Second of all, learn to read. I accused you of saying I was a moron, and you misread and thought I was talking about you. And then you say I am a moron once again. And then that my arguments are stupid. Well aren't you a well mannered one ? Could someone please moderate this guy insulting people.
 
Actually, I am not even going to talk about the cable issue anymore as someone as foul mannered as you are does not deserve it.

 
In that case, we've both misread. I don't even know how you pulled out me calling you a moron out of my statement about the Placebo effect, you must have been already put on guard when I mentioned cables.. such a touchy subject.
 
Here you are, telling me how to talk to you. I do talk to people who get offended at the smallest opinions like that. As ill mannered as I can be, saying you won't discuss anything just because I've hurt your delicate feelings proves how idiotic your argument actually is. 
 
I think the Russell's teapot was a really sweet example right there, you reacted exactly the way I expected.
 
EDIT: Who do you think you are, my third grade teacher? "You don't talk to me like that"? If you were my superior, I definitely wouldn't talk to you like that. However, you're not. More so, this is the internet. A moronic reply gets what it deserves.

 

[Mimouille]

In that case, we've both misread. I don't even know how you pulled out me calling you a moron out of my statement about the Placebo effect, you must have been already put on guard when I mentioned cables.. such a touchy subject.


Here you are, telling me how to talk to you. I do talk to people who get offended at the smallest opinions like that. As ill mannered as I can be, saying you won't discuss anything just because I've hurt your delicate feelings proves how idiotic your argument actually is. 


I think the Russell's teapot was a really sweet example right there, you reacted exactly the way I expected.

EDIT: Who do you think you are, my third grade teacher? "You don't talk to me like that"? If you were my superior, I definitely wouldn't talk to you like that. However, you're not. More so, this is the internet. A moronic reply gets what it deserves.

Ok what do you want to discuss? What are your arguments ? That you have not heard any difference on cables so far so my statement that I have is necessarily placebo ? Please detail your argument that I may learn from you.
Politeness is not based on hierarchy, but on education and respecting other people. But you must still be in a young rebel phase so I will discount that.

 

[Xinze]

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Ok what do you want to discuss? What are your arguments ? That you have not heard any difference on cables so far so my statement that I have is necessarily placebo ? Please detail your argument that I may learn from you.
Politeness is not based on hierarchy, but on education and respecting other people. But you must still be in a young rebel phase so I will discount that.

For me, respect is earned, not given. You start out with a very flexible given amount (if you can make it a quantity), and it can skyrocket up or plummet down at an instant. It causes problems yes, but my friends are the most loyal people I know and there were never any ridiculous High School drama between us.
 
 
 
Thank You 

 
My entire point is that it's pretty obvious to most clear headed people that Cables, if at all, should come last in ANY upgrade chain.
 
Even most "veterans of cables" state that they're overstating the differences of several cables in order to accentuate the differences between them. 
 
Of course, looking at the ridiculous prices of some cables, only the rich (or incredibly stupid) can afford them or afford to try out many. Of course, they dough out their cash to find some nice shiny cables, and put them on to test them out. Naturally, they will sound the same or slightly different. Not better, just different. As they're expecting an improvement, they say that difference is an improvement, and then write on some threads stating their opinions.
 
Naturally, people being the sheep that they are, believe those guys. Of course, they have a whole list of gear, HD800, Stax, 50 different amps, Heir 8A, list goes on. They must be pros at audio right? So it gets spread around more and more. Just like people on Youtube saying "Oh My God! HD videos pwn my laptop speakers sound so much better with them."
 
A branch of the same tree is the MP3 vs FLAC argument. By now, most people know that one of the only advantages of FLAC is that it's compressible to other formats without heavy losses, unlike MP3. Sure, some people can tell them apart easily, but those are rare. But as they're so sensitive to sound, they're easily drawn into the world of Audiophilia and spend cash trying to perfect the sound, treating their unique ears. Their list of gear grows, so the power of their words becomes greater and others will believe the "Day and Night" difference between MP3.
 
All the meanwhile, repeated ABX threads show that although SOME people can INCONCLUSIVELY tell the difference between FLAC and MP3, there's quite a large possibility for guessing. Even the ones that can differentiate them can't say which one sounds "better". I'm not even going to start on the people that compare lossless files, they're hopeless.
 
 
Cables would be the same. The few cables that might actually make a difference, you're automatically inclined to think that's better so you throw your support behind it. If Silver was cheaper than Copper, and standard cables were Silver, Copper would become the optional upgrade and people would flock behind it praising it's impact on the sound.
 
Also, about people who use those $200 99.9999 Silver cables with "lower" end IEMs like TF-10 or etc, they're truly stupid. 

 

[AnakChan]

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Highly doubt it's not placebo.
All three are transition metals, there shouldn't be anything unique about each to somehow conduct electrons differently to the point where it affects our (pathetic) sense of hearing. 
 
IMHO, there COULD be a small difference, but it's just that. A difference, not an actual/measurable improvement. People may just like the different sound because they're expecting an improvement and will call it one. 
 
Or, people are just telling themselves it sounds better because they wasted half as much $ on the cable as they did on the actual IEM.

 
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For me, respect is earned, not given. You start out with a very flexible given amount (if you can make it a quantity), and it can skyrocket up or plummet down at an instant. It causes problems yes, but my friends are the most loyal people I know and there were never any ridiculous High School drama between us.
 
 
 
Thank You 

 
My entire point is that it's pretty obvious to most clear headed people that Cables, if at all, should come last in ANY upgrade chain.
 
Even most "veterans of cables" state that they're overstating the differences of several cables in order to accentuate the differences between them. 
 
Of course, looking at the ridiculous prices of some cables, only the rich (or incredibly stupid) can afford them or afford to try out many. Of course, they dough out their cash to find some nice shiny cables, and put them on to test them out. Naturally, they will sound the same or slightly different. Not better, just different. As they're expecting an improvement, they say that difference is an improvement, and then write on some threads stating their opinions.
 
Naturally, people being the sheep that they are, believe those guys. Of course, they have a whole list of gear, HD800, Stax, 50 different amps, Heir 8A, list goes on. They must be pros at audio right? So it gets spread around more and more. Just like people on Youtube saying "Oh My God! HD videos pwn my laptop speakers sound so much better with them."
 
A branch of the same tree is the MP3 vs FLAC argument. By now, most people know that one of the only advantages of FLAC is that it's compressible to other formats without heavy losses, unlike MP3. Sure, some people can tell them apart easily, but those are rare. But as they're so sensitive to sound, they're easily drawn into the world of Audiophilia and spend cash trying to perfect the sound, treating their unique ears. Their list of gear grows, so the power of their words becomes greater and others will believe the "Day and Night" difference between MP3.
 
All the meanwhile, repeated ABX threads show that although SOME people can INCONCLUSIVELY tell the difference between FLAC and MP3, there's quite a large possibility for guessing. Even the ones that can differentiate them can't say which one sounds "better". I'm not even going to start on the people that compare lossless files, they're hopeless.
 
 
Cables would be the same. The few cables that might actually make a difference, you're automatically inclined to think that's better so you throw your support behind it. If Silver was cheaper than Copper, and standard cables were Silver, Copper would become the optional upgrade and people would flock behind it praising it's impact on the sound.
 
Also, about people who use those $200 99.9999 Silver cables with "lower" end IEMs like TF-10 or etc, they're truly stupid. 

 
You are perfectly correct that respect is earned. And here with your blatant blind statements, nor respect for other people's opinions, you've clearly haven't earned mine.

 

[Mimouille]

Ok I will end this discussion (at least for my part) by giving a more precise opinion on the Miracles + Tralucent Silver/Gold cable pairing. I was very skeptical about cables since the beginning and so far have only "upgraded" for better ergonomics / durability as I think the UM stock cable is a bit flimsy looking. I was very pleased with the Beat Audio Cronus. I would never have tried the Tralucent cable if it was not included in a package with the 1plus2.
 
Now I am glad that I did, because I think cables can make audible differences. Not necessarily better or worse. But what is better ? More purity of signal ? How would I know? I don't even want to know. What I know is that the Miracle has a very specific sound sig to me, which I would qualify as balanced  and airy / spacious. The silver gold cable seems to enhance the airy trait, whereas copper silver cables (Cronus) made it SLIGHTLY warmer and more intimate (still very airy though). I find this slight enhancement to please my ears.
 
Besides I have notices side benefits from these cables. First of all, my skin is more mate, and my hair slightly more shiny. My eyesight has improved by more or less 1/20th I would say, though maybe more on the right eye (slight imbalance there). Finally I can feel a significant difference in how women look at me, with a warmer, less congested look.
 
Anyways, I do believe that spending thousands to optain the most minute benefit is sometimes exagerated, but is just a matter of scale. Some people would not understand why you would spend more than 5 dollars on earphones. And in the end, EVERYBODY CAN SPEND THEIR MONEY HOWEVER THEY BLOODY WANT. If I want to order a custom CIEM with a cable made from compressed caviar and baby chinchilla eyelashes, pay 1 million dollars for it, and then say it sounds awesome thanks to the caviar, well I can.

 

[Saraugie]

 

Originally Posted by Xinze /img/forum/go_quote.gif

For me, respect is earned, not given.

 
 
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You are perfectly correct that respect is earned. And here with your blatant blind statements, nor respect for other people's opinions, you've clearly haven't earned mine.

Thank you Sean........nor mine X2

 

[Xinze]

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Thank you Sean........nor mine X2

 
 
You are perfectly correct that respect is earned. And here with your blatant blind statements, nor respect for other people's opinions, you've clearly haven't earned mine.

 
My lack of e-respect from two insignificants whom I haven't met or ever will meet has left me weeping inside.
 
Back on topic of the UM Miracle,
Does anyone know a good EQ software and a good setting to bring out more "Oomph" and sparkle in female vocals? 

 

[Loquah]

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Ok I will end this discussion (at least for my part) by giving a more precise opinion on the Miracles + Tralucent Silver/Gold cable pairing. I was very skeptical about cables since the beginning and so far have only "upgraded" for better ergonomics / durability as I think the UM stock cable is a bit flimsy looking. I was very pleased with the Beat Audio Cronus. I would never have tried the Tralucent cable if it was not included in a package with the 1plus2.
 
Now I am glad that I did, because I think cables can make audible differences. Not necessarily better or worse. But what is better ? More purity of signal ? How would I know? I don't even want to know. What I know is that the Miracle has a very specific sound sig to me, which I would qualify as balanced  and airy / spacious. The silver gold cable seems to enhance the airy trait, whereas copper silver cables (Cronus) made it SLIGHTLY warmer and more intimate (still very airy though). I find this slight enhancement to please my ears.
 
Besides I have notices side benefits from these cables. First of all, my skin is more mate, and my hair slightly more shiny. My eyesight has improved by more or less 1/20th I would say, though maybe more on the right eye (slight imbalance there). Finally I can feel a significant difference in how women look at me, with a warmer, less congested look.
 
Anyways, I do believe that spending thousands to optain the most minute benefit is sometimes exagerated, but is just a matter of scale. Some people would not understand why you would spend more than 5 dollars on earphones. And in the end, EVERYBODY CAN SPEND THEIR MONEY HOWEVER THEY BLOODY WANT. If I want to order a custom CIEM with a cable made from compressed caviar and baby chinchilla eyelashes, pay 1 million dollars for it, and then say it sounds awesome thanks to the caviar, well I can.

 
Agree.
 
Is one type of metal better than another? No. Like everything in the audio world it's about preference. I love my HD650s and others don't... that's OK.
 
Similarly, I agree that copper cables bring a warmth that I enjoy. I tried silver cables and kept coming back to copper so to say that we hear improvements based on price/reputation is not true across the board. There will always be some "sheep" out there, but those "sheep" might also be new to the hobby and not have had enough experiences to make their own minds up and that's where Head-Fi is so great - you can get some advice from experienced enthusiasts while you're still finding your way.
 
I love that a number of you on hear are staying open minded and sharing your opinions as opinions and perspectives, not gospel - nice work!
 
As for spending $200+ on a cable for TF10s (or similar IEMs): if the person notices a difference and enjoys how they feel for having a custom cable, I think that's great. Whether I want the same or not doesn't matter. Having spent $150 on a cable for my Shure SE535 LEs, I can honestly say that while the difference didn't completely sell me on the 535s, it did make me appreciate the opportunity to have a wide range of experiences in this hobby and that's worth it on its own.
 
Now for the Miracles I've juts received my DHC Symbiote SE Copper Litz cable and can't wait to get my remoulded right earpiece back so I can test it out. Maybe I'm crazy to buy this cable, but I'm excited and looking forward to the experience and to me that's all that matters. (Sorry about image quality - I'm about to run out the door and running late)
 
 

 

[AnakChan]

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Agree.
 
Is one type of metal better than another? No. Like everything in the audio world it's about preference. I love my HD650s and others don't... that's OK.
 
Similarly, I agree that copper cables bring a warmth that I enjoy. I tried silver cables and kept coming back to copper so to say that we hear improvements based on price/reputation is not true across the board. There will always be some "sheep" out there, but those "sheep" might also be new to the hobby and not have had enough experiences to make their own minds up and that's where Head-Fi is so great - you can get some advice from experienced enthusiasts while you're still finding your way.
 
I love that a number of you on hear are staying open minded and sharing your opinions as opinions and perspectives, not gospel - nice work!
 
As for spending $200+ on a cable for TF10s (or similar IEMs): if the person notices a difference and enjoys how they feel for having a custom cable, I think that's great. Whether I want the same or not doesn't matter. Having spent $150 on a cable for my Shure SE535 LEs, I can honestly say that while the difference didn't completely sell me on the 535s, it did make me appreciate the opportunity to have a wide range of experiences in this hobby and that's worth it on its own.
 
Now for the Miracles I've juts received my DHC Symbiote SE Copper Litz cable and can't wait to get my remoulded right earpiece back so I can test it out. Maybe I'm crazy to buy this cable, but I'm excited and looking forward to the experience and to me that's all that matters. (Sorry about image quality - I'm about to run out the door and running late)
 
 
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 

 
Very nice DHC Symbiote. How long was the wait? I'd agree that Head-Fi holds a wealth of knowledge, varying tastes, and varying opinions. You've hit on the keyword open mindedness which unfortunately some lack. I know some really smart members here who don't believe in cables but they respect other people's opinions. They don't try to convince me, nor do I...but we just express what we've experienced (without name calling) and leave it up to them to absorb and decide if it applies to them. Sadly that's what's missing here with some members.
 
My experience with cables are somewhat more limited. In the past 2 years aside from stock cables, I've only owned Null Audio's Lune (for the TF10Vi), FitEar 000 for the TG!334 (SR-71B/Protector balanced), Beat Audio iPhone cable, Beat Audio Cronus (SR-71B/Protector balanced), and Tralucent Silver & Silver/Gold. To be honest I felt there was very little gained from the $100 -> $300 cables (including the FitEar 000!). The difference could be heard but probably not to my expectations.
 
The Tralucent Silver & Silver/Gold OTOH was a significant exponential jump to my ears but their retail prices were shocking. Therefore from my personal experience, I'm really not surprised Mimouille heard a difference with those cables. However I also find it hard to accept one has to spend that much to hear that jump in difference. I'm testing this by ordering (or should I say have ordered) Chris_himself's OCC pure silver and silver/gold cables as a comparison.
 
I wish I tried the Tralucent on my UM Merlins and SE530x8 and see how much cables could or couldn't have opened them up more before selling those CIEMs.

 

[maguire]

Hey cool looking cable Loqauh, No I dont think your crazy on spending cash on cable.....Just adds to that special custom experience.  The  hard part is to stay patient now until Miracles are back.

 

[longbowbbs]

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Thank you Sean........nor mine X2

 
 
You are perfectly correct that respect is earned. And here with your blatant blind statements, nor respect for other people's opinions, you've clearly haven't earned mine.

 
My lack of e-respect from two insignificants whom I haven't met or ever will meet has left me weeping inside.
 
Back on topic of the UM Miracle,
Does anyone know a good EQ software and a good setting to bring out more "Oomph" and sparkle in female vocals? 

 

 

[Mimouille]

Very nice DHC Symbiote. How long was the wait? I'd agree that Head-Fi holds a wealth of knowledge, varying tastes, and varying opinions. You've hit on the keyword open mindedness which unfortunately some lack. I know some really smart members here who don't believe in cables but they respect other people's opinions. They don't try to convince me, nor do I...but we just express what we've experienced (without name calling) and leave it up to them to absorb and decide if it applies to them. Sadly that's what's missing here with some members.

My experience with cables are somewhat more limited. In the past 2 years aside from stock cables, I've only owned Null Audio's Lune (for the TF10Vi), FitEar 000 for the TG!334 (SR-71B/Protector balanced), Beat Audio iPhone cable, Beat Audio Cronus (SR-71B/Protector balanced), and Tralucent Silver & Silver/Gold. To be honest I felt there was very little gained from the $100 -> $300 cables (including the FitEar 000!). The difference could be heard but probably not to my expectations.

The Tralucent Silver & Silver/Gold OTOH was a significant exponential jump to my ears but their retail prices were shocking. Therefore from my personal experience, I'm really not surprised Mimouille heard a difference with those cables. However I also find it hard to accept one has to spend that much to hear that jump in difference. I'm testing this by ordering (or should I say have ordered) Chris_himself's OCC pure silver and silver/gold cables as a comparison.

I wish I tried the Tralucent on my UM Merlins and SE530x8 and see how much cables could or couldn't have opened them up more before selling those CIEMs.

I have the Shure SE530x6 so I could tell you though you might not care now There are also higher end cables from Tralucent, in the Piccolino price range, but out of mine...

 

[AnakChan]

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I have the Shure SE530x6 so I could tell you though you might not care now

There are also higher end cables from Tralucent, in the Piccolino price range, but out of mine...

 
The $1200 cable ? Yes I have heard about it.

 

[cravenz]

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The $1200 cable ? Yes I have heard about it.

 
The One Thousand Two Hundred DOLLARS cable? Crap. Here I am having trouble forking out that much for a custom.