[Vespertine]

"Cable Burn In" is physically impossible. A conductor does not change its conductivity profile over time unless there are other external or extraneous factors which degrade it thereby attenuating the signal or altering the signature. Simply passing current through it does not alter it, we are well past the times of alchemy... This is not an opinion, it is a fact. To suggest otherwise is more than bold, it simply reveals that you don't know your physics....at all... Anyone who has posted about cable burn in and the affect that it has on these headphones is mistaken. The sound will not change over time due to changes in the cable. In the drivers it is possible, but the cable will not change over time. If anyone doubts what I am saying, then I will happily put you in touch with some of my friends at CERN, and if anyone can prove that I am wrong then they will give you a job to design a new LHC, one that takes cable burn in into consideration. The results will be very different. To be honest the more I think about the concept of "Cable Burn In" the more utterly laughable it becomes. Physics would be made very very difficult if not impossible if it were true. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, which is why I spent 7 years at Cambridge. Oh yeah, and if it were true then my entire profession would be tantamount to a scam. A really good one too...a scam that provides perfect results. 0/10

 

[Mcberto]

Anyone here willing to let their pairs go for a sum? .

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

"Cable Burn In" is physically impossible. A conductor does not change its conductivity profile over time unless there are other external or extraneous factors which degrade it thereby attenuating the signal or altering the signature. Simply passing current through it does not alter it, we are well past the times of alchemy... This is not an opinion, it is a fact. To suggest otherwise is more than bold, it simply reveals that you don't know your physics....at all... Anyone who has posted about cable burn in and the affect that it has on these headphones is mistaken. The sound will not change over time due to changes in the cable. In the drivers it is possible, but the cable will not change over time. If anyone doubts what I am saying, then I will happily put you in touch with some of my friends at CERN, and if anyone can prove that I am wrong then they will give you a job to design a new LHC, one that takes cable burn in into consideration. The results will be very different. To be honest the more I think about the concept of "Cable Burn In" the more utterly laughable it becomes. Physics would be made very very difficult if not impossible if it were true. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, which is why I spent 7 years at Cambridge. Oh yeah, and if it were true then my entire profession would be tantamount to a scam. A really good one too...a scam that provides perfect results. 0/10

Blah blah. Read up on the forum rules and take it to the sound science section so every thread doesn't get derailed by a zealot. I love how many posts we get where the author says something like, I used to argue that a cable can't sound different until I heard a difference, LOL. No one said the differences were significant to calculation or design. It's also not just wire, there are also dielectrics involved. Shouldn't, theoretically, be affected significantly enough for a measurable sonic change but ears are uniquely capable of collating. Ask your friends at CERN if they they know how to measure everything that can be experienced. Ask them about the mechanism of gravity while you're at it. Ask them about calibration over time (currently often automatic and digitally controlled) and when it drifts the most. Never mind, you already have all the answers.
 
Breakin generally improves things but I've had it go the wrong way sonically as well. It's never been a cure all nor changed the fundamental character. Here, you also go so far as to project motive which is extremely unscientific. Poor form if that's what your grounds are. On cables it's quite a variable if any run in is significance or not. I know that you think that you're helping but you're simply coming off as someone that's unwilling to accept that we don't know everything.

 

[Mimouille]

Quote:

Blah blah. Read up on the forum rules and take it to the sound science section so every thread doesn't get derailed by a zealot. I love how many posts we get where the author says something like, I used to argue that a cable can't sound different until I heard a difference, LOL. No one said the differences were significant to calculation or design. It's also not just wire, there are also dielectrics involved. Shouldn't, theoretically, be affected significantly enough for a measurable sonic change but ears are uniquely capable of collating. Ask your friends at CERN if they they know how to measure everything that can be experienced. Ask them about the mechanism of gravity while you're at it. Ask them about calibration over time (currently often automatic and digitally controlled) and when it drifts the most. Never mind, you already have all the answers.
 
Breakin generally improves things but I've had it go the wrong way sonically as well. It's never been a cure all nor changed the fundamental character. Here, you also go so far as to project motive which is extremely unscientific. Poor form if that's what your grounds are. On cables it's quite a variable if any run in is significance or not. I know that you think that you're helping but you're simply coming off as someone that's unwilling to accept that we don't know everything.

Not to fan the argument, but:

1. He is saying cable burn in is not possible, not that different cables can not sound different ?
2. What else is there in a cable than wire ? (it is a true question, I have no clue)
3. I am no expert but I do not understand why this issue is so touchy. Either cables can change over time or they cannot. It is in fact purely scientific. Why can't there be a single answer. We are not talking about the big bang here...Wether ears will hear it different over time may be attributable to other factors...

Anyways...

 

[goodvibes]

It's for the sound science forum. The mechanism is basically unknown and subtle. There is wire and dielectric. The argument is what can be measured vs what can be heard which makes subjective and not for here. If someone says they hear something, I don't dismiss it just because I don't 'believe' it could be so or I got different results. I can mention my different result but leave it at that and not make it a universal truth. Moon says their cable changes, I've experienced a cable change in the same way repeatedly. If you don't, that's fine with me but it's poor form to dictate another's experience.

 

[LCfiner]

what made me most skeptical of the cable burn-in stuff (aside from a basic understanding of electricity) is the numbers involved in cable burn in. proponents of it are tossing around numbers like 400 hours to burn in a cable. how can you be expected to remember exactly what you heard 400 hours previously and then turn around and say that this new, expensive cable sounds better after letting it run in for a month? There's no way to accurately remember what you heard before and after if you're using the same cable.
 
It's a shame that being critical and skeptical of cable stuff gets tossed into the sound science ghetto. there's a lot of money getting thrown around and people who are reading impressions and trying to figure out where to spend their money should have more information available to them in the more popular threads.
 
eh, I'll be quite now until my IE800 gets here.

 

[goodvibes]

It's so threads don't get dominated by an argument that can't be resolved. Enter any purchase somewhat skeptical would be good advice for anything.
 
I just tried 4 different cables for my JH13s that all sounded different and I wont be buying any of them. I expected a few of them to be better than stock but still prefer the stock overall. Some offered interesting trade offs. It's not just about price but also interfacing. When I tried the 1+2, I swapped cables with my JH13. Both devices got worse. My experience and easily repeated blind.
 
Gavin obviously understands voicing and that playing tunes is more important than other aspects of a music reproduction device. The tech needs to be there but it's not an end all.
 
Can we get back to the 1+2. I really liked it when I listened to it. I didn't expect to like it that much as I haven't been a huge twfk fan and thought there would be some disconnection in time between the dynamic and BA portions. Gavin worked it out. One can enter skeptical without it influencing an outcome.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
It's a shame that being critical and skeptical of cable stuff gets tossed into the sound science ghetto. there's a lot of money getting thrown around and people who are reading impressions and trying to figure out where to spend their money should have more information available to them in the more popular threads.

 
I agree.
 
Quote:

It's so threads don't get dominated by an argument that can't be resolved. Enter any purchase somewhat skeptical would be good advice for anything.
 
I just tried 4 different cables for my JH13s that all sounded different and I wont be buying any of them. I expected a few of them to be better than stock but still prefer the stock overall. Some offered interesting trade offs. It's not just about price but also interfacing. When I tried the 1+2, I swapped cables with my JH13. Both devices got worse. My experience and easily repeated blind.
 
Gavin obviously understands voicing and that playing tunes is more important than other aspects of a music reproduction device. The tech needs to be there but it's not an end all.
 
Can we get back to the 1+2. I really liked it when I listened to it. I didn't expect to like it that much as I haven't been a huge twfk fan and thought there would be some disconnection in time between the dynamic and BA portions. Gavin worked it out. One can enter skeptical without it influencing an outcome.

 
Forgive me if I'm quite sceptical of the above statement (bolded text). There are several variables that might lead to such categorical statement, and practically impossible for you to do a real—proper—blind test of (whatever) cables using the exact same IEM(s).

 

[Mimouille]

Quote:

It's a shame that being critical and skeptical of cable stuff gets tossed into the sound science ghetto. there's a lot of money getting thrown around and people who are reading impressions and trying to figure out where to spend their money should have more information available to them in the more popular threads.
 

I agree with this totally.
 
Quote:

It's so threads don't get dominated by an argument that can't be resolved. Enter any purchase somewhat skeptical would be good advice for anything.
 
I just tried 4 different cables for my JH13s that all sounded different and I wont be buying any of them.

I do not see why the argument cannot be resolved. A cable is for transmitting a signal. If it is scientifically proven that the transmission of the signal cannot change over time, then cable burn in does not exist. I would welcome counter arguments of course as I do not know much on the subject.
 
Once again, there is less argument on the fact that different cables may sound different as different metals have different properties, but more on the fact of cable burn in. Two totally different subjects IMO.
 
I for one believe that cables may marginally change sound (as I THINK I have heard it), but I am skeptical on the fact that cable burn in can be tested. I do not believe in comparison on memory, so one needs two identical cables, one burned in and one not.
 
On the subject of the 1Plus2, I am listening to it constantly these day out my AK100 mod stage 2 with the new silver and gold cable and it sounds great. Some limitations I would attribute to source and not iem. To me this iem, especially with this new more ergonomic cable, is the best overall iem I have heard. Sometimes I prefer my SE5 or Miracles for other flavors, but technically and as an allrounder, the 1Plus2 is the best.

 

[AnakChan]

I'm gonna have to back @goodvibes on this that general philosophical discussions of cable burn-in does not belong to this 1Plus2 thread. Each audiophile have their beliefs that fall on either side of the fence and there's nothing 1Plus2 specific about this and such topics do belong in the Sound Science.
 
If 1Plus2 owners want to share their experiences of how their Tralucent cable has (or hasn't) changed over time (not) impacting their 1Plus2 sound signatures, that's a welcoming post. It's very easy for believers to read about how burn-in affects the 1Plus2, as well as very easy for non-believers to ignore those posts and just move on.
 
I'm going to ask the mods to have this thread cleaned up.

 

[LCfiner]

lol. "cleaned up." yeah, like it was so dirty to bring up some skepticism about the cable claims running rampant through here.
 
As long as people are in here claiming that cable burn in and fancy cables make a difference, there should be some counterpoint to those claims to help the readers of the thread have a more informed position.

 

[Mimouille]

Quote:

lol. "cleaned up." yeah, like it was so dirty to bring up some skepticism about the cable claims running rampant through here.
 

+1 again. Liking you more and more
 
Yes I was not a fan of the clean up formulation Anak...

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

lol. "cleaned up." yeah, like it was so dirty to bring up some skepticism about the cable claims running rampant through here.
 
As long as people are in here claiming that cable burn in and fancy cables make a difference, there should be some counterpoint to those claims to help the readers of the thread have a more informed position.

 
Completely agree.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of financial interests in not allowing that to occur. 

 

[goodvibes]

I guess you didn't read the part where I didn't prefer the fancy cables. You guys doubt what you like. I'm fine with it as long as you don't tell me what I hear. That's the problem with the discussion being here. It always becomes 'you're not objective enough and fooling yourself' etc which in turn is personal and against the rules everywhere but the sound science forum. Still against the rules but more accepted there so that discussion may occur. It's become an understood but only to a point. I've blind tested cables in the past with errorless repeatable results. You don't need to believe that either but to challange it over the net is ridiculous. I suspect that if we don't move on, this great thread won't be here much longer.
 
Let us respectfully disagree and if you don't accept the premise, save your money. I do accept and saved mine as well.

 

[warrenpchi]

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I can tell you now that if you were considering the Heir 5.0s you made the right decision as they really do not compare at all.

 
You are bang on there, I was considering the Heir 5.0's, even had them ready to go and I posted that fact on a "full size" thread and then luckily someone intervened and suggested that I look at these.

 

  What a fortuitous turn of events!