[chesebert]

why isn't anyone outraged that PS audio is charging $100 for $5 in parts and maybe 20hrs of engineering assume the EE is not that good?

 

[Voltron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why does EVERY post have to be so scary?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I removed it from the wall, listened again after 30 seconds, it was still too heavy. Waited 26 seconds and tried again, it was less heavy. Waited 42 seconds, it sounded much thinner, it was close to "home". Waited 52 seconds, it was even thinner and there was sibilance too, bass was gone! Waited another 52 seconds and it didn't sound different. It took 2 and half minutes for the noise to build up after removing the Harvester. I'm able to listen to my system again without headache. I'm not planning to put the Harvester back. With 2 Harvesters I can only listen to my system 5 minutes at a time. But without the Harvesters I can listen all day without fatigue!

I don't think I have posted in a Patrick82 "too extreme tweaking" thread before, but I just have to say that I was snickering after reading Jahn's post and then almost swallowed my tongue when I read the latest installment from the tweaker king. The time stamps killed me. Simply incredible.

 

[Patrick82]

I plugged the Harvester into another circuit where my projector and LCD is connected, my audio system wasn't affected.
Harvester is blinking once a second when my LCD is turned on. When projector is turned on it blinks every 3-4 seconds. When both are off it blinks every 5 seconds.


First impressions: After I turned on projector I got a headache from the bright text, I couldn't read AVS forum anymore because of the yellow text. I was forced to read other forums for a couple hours. I thought it was all in my mind.

Then I turned off projector and turned on my $200 Acer LCD screen. Wow it looks cleaner and more 3 dimensional, it's like I have upgraded to a new display! It's both blacker and whiter at the same time, everything jumps out more. The box where I'm writing right now looks deep. Everything looks more separate.
Colors look better. The black level still isn't acceptable for movies, but it's better than before.

It reminds me of when I tried Ultimate Outlet + Nordost Valhalla. Anyone who considers buying Valhalla power cord for their LCD, buy Noise Harvester instead!

 

[Chinchy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then I turned off projector and turned on my $200 Acer LCD screen. Wow it looks cleaner and more 3 dimensional, it's like I have upgraded to a new display! It's both blacker and whiter at the same time, everything jumps out more. The box where I'm writing right now looks deep. Everything looks more separate. Colors look better. The black level still isn't acceptable for movies, but it's better than before.

Are the effects additive? As in, if you add multiple Noise Harvesters, does everything jump out more? I wonder if it's possible to obtain an almost 3d-like projection by adding 5-15 more noise harvesters?

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinchy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are the effects additive? As in, if you add multiple Noise Harvesters, does everything jump out more? I wonder if it's possible to obtain an almost 3d-like projection by adding 5-15 more noise harvesters?

They are additive for the audio system because it's less limited than video gear.

I'm going to plug my display into Premier Power Plant when it arrives. Then I can see how good this display can become.

 

[Patrick82]

Instead of running away from bass like sissy girl I'm trying the Harvester for my audio system again. This time I only plugged in one Harvester instead of two, it gave half as much bass as both of them combined.

I found that I'm able to listen to a few albums without problems for an hour. But when I listened to one of my favorite albums I got a headache after 1 minute and felt sick in stomach after 2 mins 14 seconds. Bass was too heavy and tight. It felt like something was coming up from my throat so I had to change to another album. The problem went away when I chose an album that had little bass.

The improvement from Harvester is like a power cord 4+ times the size (more bass) but without the lack of detail. The improvement isn't as impressive as ERS Paper (link) or Valhalla interconnect modifications (link, link) which gave pure resolution without adding any weight. But the difference is more obvious since the Harvester makes everything too heavy. It boosts up the bass!



The difference from Harvester is bigger than:

1. Stock vs xStream Statement power cord for computer. Statement gave me fatigue from bass, but lack of detail was more annoying.
2. Solid-tech vibration isolation, 3 vs 4 steps. Adding the extra step of isolation gave enough blackness and heaviness to make me sick.
3. MWave1 vs MWave4. MWave4 gave loads of pure resolution but also made it warmer, it doesn't bother me though. It took months to get used to the tight bass transients.

I would compare Harvester with MWave4 (PS Audio MultiWave II) since it improves everything without adding any weaknesses. Harvester is like MWave4 except it also adds heaviness top to bottom, it also makes everything little tighter to keep the same detail.

• I changed from MWave4 to MWave1 and low-level bass transients were missing, it made it sound thinner, colder, brighter and there was more midrange. That explains why MWave4 is so warm, because there is more low-level information.
  When I changed back to MWave4 the transients were back and I also noticed more depth in the soundstage. I'm in love with MWave4.
  
• Removed Harvester from the wall and waited 4 minutes, it sounded like the heaviness was toned down. The low-level detail was still there except it sounded thinner and more consistent. I like this more.

• Changed from MWave4 to MWave1 and plugged the Harvester back in, waited 3 minutes. The increase in heaviness was huge but the lack of low-level detail was also more apparent.

The difference when adding Harvester is 5 times bigger than the difference between MWave1 and MWave4.
MWave4 without the Harvester sounds better to me than MWave1 with the Harvester. Having clean power isn't as important as I thought, it makes it sound heavier but it doesn't increase as much detail as power supply manipulation does.


_______________________


Only $100 for a Harvester to get a huge difference like this is crazy, especially since I'm already using Ultimate Outlet + P300 Power Plant.
I would like 20% the performance of the Harvester, a full 100% seems to be overkill for my system. I can't recommend anyone buying the 5 pack, 1 or 2 is enough if you already have a power conditioner.
I will keep it plugged in and see if I get used to it, based on previous upgrades I know it's possible, it's very hard work though. I need to do warm-ups and use different music and stuff.

 

[The Monkey]

Really my favorite yet (see sig.).

Now Patrick, you said that you were happy with your system despite all attempts to find something wrong. What made you decide to go for the Harvester in the first place? You knew the potential for crazy bass and yet you plunged in headlong. What gives? I think it's that you LIKE extreme bass and just won't admit it.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif Really my favorite yet (see sig.). Now Patrick, you said that you were happy with your system despite all attempts to find something wrong. What made you decide to go for the Harvester in the first place? You knew the potential for crazy bass and yet you plunged in headlong. What gives? I think it's that you LIKE extreme bass and just won't admit it.

I bought the Harvesters before I made my interconnect modifications which solved problems. I also have a Premier Power Plant coming soon, I'm afraid of more bass now, I will use it only for computer and LCD display.

I didn't think I would get more bass from Harvester, I never saw anyone say it. I thought the background would just get a little blacker with more low-level detail, I guess not. Harvester removes too much noise, I like to eat a little AC noise for breakfast, Harvester eats away my food!

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's that you LIKE extreme bass and just won't admit it.

If I really liked bass I could undo my power cord mods and boost up the bass. But too much bass is like torture. Maybe I like torture and won't admit it. I don't have anyone to swing a swip at me so I plug in my Harvester instead.

 

[Jeff Wong]

Patrick - If the difference is this significant (I did not find them to improve things much, if at all, in my system, which already employs a variety of power conditioning), I wonder if you may have some imbalances in your system that went unaddressed. After all, we're talking about the electricity before even getting to your components. You might want to plug in those Harvesters and figure out what else in your system might be creating excessive bass.

 

[swt61]

I've had better luck with this harvester.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've had better luck with this harvester.

LOL, it might get you the same "BUZZ"

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Wong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Patrick - If the difference is this significant (I did not find them to improve things much, if at all, in my system, which already employs a variety of power conditioning), I wonder if you may have some imbalances in your system that went unaddressed. After all, we're talking about the electricity before even getting to your components. You might want to plug in those Harvesters and figure out what else in your system might be creating excessive bass.

I modified the Valhalla power cord for my computer (link) and that took care of a little weight but loads of muddiness. I don't know what Nordost was thinking when they designed the cable. I guess they put intentional muddiness on the cable to hide brightness in crappy systems. If customer's ears start hurting from brightness he's going to return the cable...

Since the sound got thinner from the Valhalla mod I was able to plug a Harvester to my wall to boost up the bass. Then I plugged in a 2nd Harvester to my P300 and bass was doubled again. I'm only listening to my sissy bass albums and I'm surprised of the amount of low-level detail I'm hearing. A whole new world of detail has opened up. It's one of the biggest improvements I have ever heard.
I'm hearing huge bass but it's distinct from the rest of the music, it doesn't bother me as much as before. I'm still getting headache from some albums though.

 

[Patrick82]

My fanless P300 Power Plant was burning hot with Harvester plugged into it, normally it's just a little warm. Harvester never blinks or buzzes unless I do the Clean Sweep. I removed it and bass got much thinner, after an hour P300 had cooled down. It seems like something weird happens with multiwave + Harvester. It sounded sort of like a combination of MWave4 and TubeWave.

 

[Patrick82]

With 1 Harvester and modified Valhalla the bass is still too heavy.
It was way too warm so I searched for a way to compensate. Then I saw my dusty Valkyrja headphone cable on the table, I could clearly see the dust from far away. I cleaned it with Optrix again and got more transparency and tightness, I'm hearing decay around bass transients again. It's little better now, there's still too much bass though.
See my 1st and 2nd impressions from Optrix: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...&postcount=188

I checked my system to see if there were any other problems, I saw that the rear left Feet of Silence under my amp had the rubber bands stretched more than the others. I added extra rubber bands to that one.
While I was putting the rubber on, my room got colder.
I was surprised when I listened to music again, of course I'm hearing the usual "whiteness + fake blackness + lack of low-level detail" sound signature from the colder room, but this time I'm also hearing something else. I'm hearing a sound signature I haven't heard before, bass sounds very strong and there is better synergy. It seems like all four Feet need to be suspended the same depth. Or maybe the ambient temperature makes a bigger difference after I added the Harvester. Either way, it sounds better now.

There is still too much bass though. Maybe building a freezer for Valhalla cables will help. It is crazy how big difference one Harvester makes, I wonder how long I will keep tweaking until I get perfect synergy again. After I added Valhalla digital cable to my system it took months of tweaking to compensate for the warmth: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191136


I wonder if replacing the Feet with Stillpoints would be better. Maybe the bass from Feet is heavier than neutral.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...&openflup&17&4
Quote:

The Feet of Silence made the most positive difference. The contrast with Stillpoints was instructive - using the Stillpoints the music lost its bloom, and sounded overdamped and constrained. The Feet of Silence let the music breathe mone freely.