[n00b2]

 
If you have the chance to keep the M1 till the M2 arrives it would be GRATLY appreciated if you could do a side to side comparison!
Beside the NFC and the Multipoint (which imo is more important than the NFC, i would not know when I should ever use the NFC, are you sure that you do not confuse it with ANC?), the M2BT has got a new DSp which supposedly should give it a better soundstage, and it also reaches the 7hz instead of the 17 of the M1, so it SHOULD have an even deeper bass.
I could not compare them side to side, but I did not notice any real difference, so I am very curious if you will notice anything...

 
Going down to 7hz will not make any difference to the bass at all. Human hearing doesn't go that low. If you hear something when playing a 7hz test tone there is something wrong with your equipment or there is serious distortion going on (I'm taking about you hearing it yourself not the equipment that can feel it picking it up).
 

 
Beside the NFC and the Multipoint (which imo is more important than the NFC, i would not know when I should ever use the NFC, are you sure that you do not confuse it with ANC?)

 
NFC is mainly useful as an initial pairing method. Rather than holding down the pairing button and waiting for it to show up on the phone you just tap the phone (the part where the NFC chip is located) to the ear cup with the NFC and watch them pair automatically. Its usefulness after initial pairing depends on how good your headphones are at remembering paired devices or how many devices you use them with. If the headphones can remember the device then NFC is only slightly faster than waiting for them to automatically reconnect provided the NFC connection actually works straight away (often you need to move the phone a bit around til it works). If the headohones can't remember paired devices or you use so many devices in a particular order that the headphones can't remember the device when you want to reconnect then NFC is quite handy.

 

[Giogio]

   
Going down to 7hz will not make any difference to the bass at all. Human hearing doesn't go that low. If you hear something when playing a 7hz test tone there is something wrong with your equipment or there is serious distortion going on.

I disagree.
Human ears are not made with a stamp, all the same. Some people can hear frequencies (withinor outside of the 20-20000 range) which other people can not.
Those numbers are an average statistic based on tests on a limited number of people.
Same story with seeing. In theory we should arrive till 10, but I had 13 and could read all those little letters which other people can not.
I can ear till 15hz. And a bit more.
It must be, of course, an headphone which react to that frequency.
 
Anyway, I think the fact is not what you can hear, but how the headphone cut the frequencies.
Even if you can only hear till 20, headphones which reproduce more than that will also reproduce more details on the 20, because they cut the sound more down than 20.
They will also have more harmonics (richer fuller bass) and more air pressure (feeling even if you cannot hear).
The two BT headphones which better perform on bass are ATH anf Fidelio. Respectively 8 and 7hz. It cannot be a coincidence.
Of course, it also is not a proof, I mean, the MK2 reaches 4 I think, but has less bass. There are also other factors for sure.
But I think the range counts.
We should ask a sound engineer though. One who DESIGNES headphones.

 

[n00b2]

 
I disagree.
Human ears are not made with a stamp, all the same. Some people can hear frequencies (withinor outside of the 20-20000 range) which other people can not.
Those numbers are an average statistic based on tests on a limited number of people.
Same story with seeing. In theory we should arrive till 10, but I had 13 and could read all those little letters which other people can not.
I can ear till 15hz. And a bit more.
It must be, of course, an headphone which react to that frequency.
 
Anyway, I think the fact is not what you can hear, but how the headphone cut the frequencies.
Even if you can only hear till 20, headphones which reproduce more than that will also reproduce more details on the 20, because they cut the sound more down than 20.
They will also have more harmonics (richer fuller bass) and more air pressure (feeling even if you cannot hear).
The two BT headphones which better perform on bass are ATH anf Fidelio. Respectively 8 and 7hz. It cannot be a coincidence.
Of course, it also is not a proof, I mean, the MK2 reaches 4 I think, but has less bass. There are also other factors for sure.
But I think the range counts.
We should ask a sound engineer though. One who DESIGNES headphones.

 
20-20000 is not the limit for everyone sure. I can hear below 20hz and could hear above 20000hz when I was younger. But no one will be able to hear 7hz. That is just far too low. If you could hear that low then you would be hearing other things such as certain movements in your body which work at that frequency. Most of the time though if you listen to something well below 20hz (around the 7h range) and feel a vibration of sorts its just because the headphones are distorting. You wouldn't hear anything if the headphones were properly designed though sound equipment would pick it up. Serious sub bass though can have other impacts on a person after extended periods where they can basically feel it but not realise (unless they are standing right next to the speaker or wearing headphones in which case they will feel the air like you said). There was a test done somewhere with a 17hz or 18hz test tone out in the open that made plenty of people nauseous and sick in other ways. Can't find the link now though but would be interesting if accurate reproduction of sub 20hz tones by these headphones can have the same results.
 
As for the theory of bass at 20hz being fuller if the headphones extend lower for identical headphones like the two Philips versions where the only difference is the frequency that could well be true. But I'd say that proper design and calibration on say a better pair of headphones would have a bigger impact on that than simply going down lower.

 

[Giogio]

   
20-20000 is not the limit for everyone sure. I can hear below 20hz and could hear above 20000hz when I was younger. But no one will be able to hear 7hz. That is just far too low. If you could hear that low then you would be hearing other things such as certain movements in your body which work at that frequency. Most of the time though if you listen to something well below 20hz (around the 7h range) and feel a vibration of sorts its just because the headphones are distorting. You wouldn't hear anything if the headphones were properly designed though sound equipment would pick it up. As for the theory of bass at 20hz being fuller if the headphones extend lower for identical headphones like the two Philips versions where the only difference is the frequency that could well be true. But I'd say that proper design and calibration on say a better pair of headphones would have a bigger impact on that than simply going down lower.

Sure, that's why the UE9000 are almost on par (in some aspect even better) than the Fidelio on the bass. And they reach only 20.
I will ask somebody I know. As always, I want to know!

 

[n00b2]

  Sure, that's why the UE9000 are almost on par (in some aspect even better) than the Fidelio on the bass. And they reach only 20.
I will ask somebody I know. As always, I want to know!

This thread on another forum seems to have a few comments about making people sick which I mentioned in my post edit earlier. But yes if you find a sound engineer they would probably give you a better answer about what impacts frequency extension has on improving sound at audible frequencies. Do let us know what they say.

 

[drheadphone]

Very suspicious of the Wirecutter. First they recommend that crap Revo, then they plug another Jabra? All while omitting the cream of the crop.

They also push Onkyo really hard, despite their notoriously shoddy support.

I bought the Jabra Move based on Wirecutter's recommendation. I'll give some impressions when I receive them next week. I think they mean well, as they do provide full disclosure of their selection and reviewing process, but being a US-based site, their headphones selection is really limited to non-imports. So the Philips M2BT and ATH WS99BT are not part of their roundup.

I could certainly do with their take on the Def Tech Symphony 1 and Plantronics BBP. Both could use more reviews, though I have to admit I'm not drawn to BBP due to its thick look.

 

[drheadphone]

I recently had the chance to demo the Parrot Zik2. It sounded nice but fit was terrible. It was at least one size too small for my large-ish head. Also when worn, the headband noticeably flattens out and looks similar to a NAD Viso HP50. Just a bit too Frankenstein-ish to wear in public.

Also, I recently bought the Creative WP 350 based on Hifi Heaven's youtube review. Let's just say I did not own it for very long. Way too sibilant sounding, even for the modest MSRP of $50. I much prefer the smoother sound of the AF62 Matrix2 for a little more cash.

The only problems I had with the AF62 are its lack of isolation and slightly blocky design for larger heads. For these reasons I couldn't wear it out in public.

Unsurprisingly more fashionable BT headphones command a premium price. From an aesthetic point of view I much prefer the Momentum Wireless, B&O H8 and Beats Solo 2. My wallet disagrees with me of course.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

@drheadphone  I agree... Parrot Zik 2.0 headphone band is for average and smaller sized heads (or bald ones like mine!).  To what extent did you work with the app's capability of changing EQ, soundstage width, or reverb?  or were all these turned off?

 

[Giogio]

@kayandjohn, I have received the AKG, can you send me a link to your post with the music you use for testing headphones?
I am too lazy to go back page by page till I find it.
So I can test them three (ATH AKG S1+) with your music.
You can also ask me whatever you want to know about how they compare.
Cheers

 

[drheadphone]

I didn't get a chance to play with the settings for the Zik2. Whatever the default setting is sounds to my liking. Very warm, mid fi-ish sound with good balance across the spectrum. Nothing too inoffensive. I also found the touch controls to be very responsive and intuitive. I would've paid full price for it, if it only fit better.

 

[bladefd]

Zik2 is on-ear, no? I never like on-ear for extensive periods because it pushes on your ear & gets uncomfortable within 2 hours or less

 

[ruthieandjohn]

  @kayandjohn, I have received the AKG, can you send me a link to your post with the music you use for testing headphones?
I am too lazy to go back page by page till I find it.
So I can test them three (ATH AKG S1+) with your music.
You can also ask me whatever you want to know about how they compare.
Cheers

Wow ! I really appreciate that. 
 
Three areas of greatest interest are:
 

1. Transparency (here I mean... like a speaker with NO cloth in front of it, as opposed to with a speaker grill) - are you in the same room with the musicians?
2. Bass response - can you actually FEEL the subbass on the third verse of "Throwback" on the list of songs I use (don't expect you will on the AKG).  Can you get some sense of bass tonality rather than just a thud with pitch (i.e. do higher harmonics, used to distinguish the sound of an electric bass from a bass viol, show up?)
3. Sound stage - are you among the musicians, or are they ahead of you?

 
Here is a link to the songs (as well as tests I have used) - I tend to rank order the headphones (which is best and which is 2nd best on each of the features you are rating)  http://www.head-fi.org/t/746519/huge-comparison-of-almost-all-the-best-bluetooth-headphones-post-your-own-comparisons-here/270#post_11365828
 
And here are the songs (copied from that link):
 
I used four songs, all encoded in Apple Lossless Format at CD quality (I actually bought the CDs and ripped them... no internet download involved) and played by my Apple iPod Touch 5th Gen via its bluetooth.
 

• "You're Going To Miss Me When I'm Gone," by Band of Heathens, from their album One Foot In The Ether (used for fidelity of drum sound, positional resolution of two vocalists, and ability to discern pitch of string bass passages);
• "Spanish Harlem," by Rebecca Pidgeon, on The Ultimate Demonstration Disc of Chesky records (used to assess female vocals, transparency, the attack of finger on bass string, and high resolution discrimination of differences in shaker shakes);
• "Symphony No. 3 in C Minor Op. 78 (Organ Symphony) - IV" by Camille Saint Saens played by Lorin Maazel and the Pittsburgh Sympony Orchestra (used to assess the "ripping" sound of well-rendered lower brass and organ reed pipes, and the ability to hear a very small entrance amidst a bombastic chord of orchestra and organ at full tilt);
• "Throwback" by B.o.B. on Underground Luxury (used to assess ability of a bass tone, specifically lowest C on piano at about 32 Hz, to pick me up by the throat and shake me!)

 

[drheadphone]

The Zik 2 are meant to be over ear. But it does fit small, so it may be on-ears on some larger heads or larger ears.

It doesn't quite look right on big heads like this one....

 

[ruthieandjohn]

The Zik 2 are meant to be over ear. But it does fit small, so it may be on-ears on some larger heads or larger ears.

It doesn't quite look right on big heads like this one....

Looks fine to me on these folks...
 

 

[Giogio]

are you in the same room with the musicians?

now? no, I am alone, why? should I call them now?

 
Can you please upload those songs in google drive and pass me the link in a PM?
Anyway, I am not sure which kind of headphone would not let the electric bass be distinguished from a bass viola... Maybe I did not understand what you mean.

Anyway for one think I can already thank you for giving me the chance to re-get the AKG: the earpads fit well on my ATH, are thicker (= no more ears touching the drivers) and the inner diameter slightly bigger.
I bought the white (you are right, they are cool, and I actually got the white version of the Y45BT now, very nice). So, the white earpads on the ATH look a bit strange, but I will of course order the black ones.
The sound changes a bit, there is a bit less bass (not a big deal there was plenty of it), a bit less low mids (good, there was a tiny bit too much for me) and a better sound of space.
Overall, I like the sound even more now.