ZMF Verite Closed-New Closed Back ZMF Flagship.
Apr 17, 2020 at 10:07 AM Post #2,536 of 12,598
Nice review Roasty! Although I'm looking forward to getting my VC, I don't expect to like them quite as much as my VO. I'm buying the VC to have a closed headphone for times when my family is being rambunctiously loud. Also, I've been told by owners that have the VO and VC that one or the other perform better for different genres. Like you, I really like the Utopia but it wasn't until I got my Auris Nirvana amp that I fully appreciated them. Some SS amps and the Utopia sound lean and metallic, I don't get that at all from my tube amp. My Nirvana really opened up the soundstage of the Utopia as well. I found that when I select 80 ohms on my Nirvana's selectable impedance, the SQ of the Utopia took a big step up in fullness and warmth without losing the great speed and details that the headphone is known for.

Regarding your review, I wonder if the VC is fully broken in? I know that Zach recommended a minimum of 150hrs but also said that some reported improvements up to 300hrs. With my VO, I found the latter to be true. Thanks for taking the time to compare the VC to the Stellia. Based on your description, I think I made the right choice for a closed headphone for my preferences.

PS, it must be nice to live near the equator. As I write this, it's snowing heavily this morning in Michigan.
 
Apr 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Post #2,537 of 12,598
I forget how many power tube sockets your Glenn has,but have you tried a sextet of 6bx7s? I have a pair of Bendix 6080s as well,but i get more slam out of the 6Bx7s.


I only have two power sockets in my baby GOTL. I can only imagine what yours must sound like with six 6BX7s.
 
Apr 17, 2020 at 12:51 PM Post #2,538 of 12,598
Apr 17, 2020 at 3:57 PM Post #2,539 of 12,598
ZMF Verite Closed vs Focal Stellia

i recently received the ZMF VC in leopardwood. the shop that distributes ZMF locally was also kind enough to loan me their Focal Stellia; usually they don't allow home auditions, but in view of the current COVID19 situation, they're trialing something new. i've had the Stellia with me for about 5 days now, and have done roughly 2 hours a day of quick a/b comparisons between the VC and Stellia. i have to return the Stellia next Monday. Let me preface by saying to please remember that the following are my own opinions, and that listening is subjective, and that some of it is dependent on your own system and equipment as well as your music preference. Having said that, feel free to criticise and comment!

Listening was done with two systems, playing from Roon+Tidal:
system A: Cambridge Audio CXN v2 (does internal upsampling to 384Khz) > Benchmark DAC3b > Benchmark HPA4
system B: NUC > HQPlayer upsampling to PCM 384Khz (sinc M + LNS15) > Singxer SU-6 > IIS hdmi > Holo Spring 2 Wild Edition > Woo Audio 22 (WE421A power tubes + Mullard ECC35 drivers + WE422a rectifier)

Headphones config:
Stellia + stock cables (both single ended and balanced XLR). I didnt have any aftermarket cable for the Stellia.
ZMF VC leopardwood + Auteur leather pads and with the single ended stock cable + Arctic Cables silver series balanced XLR


i apologize if the following reads quite disjointed and incongruent. tried to take as many mental notes as i could, but i'm not very good at organizing my thoughts.

BUILD
The Stellia is similar in build quality to the Utopia. Premium quality materials through and through.
As with Utopia, there is slight creak when the yokes are moved in the hand, but no creaking when on the head.
The leather ear pads are nicely textured. They're soft, but not as soft as the pads on the Utopia.
I dislike the stock Stellia cable; flat wire in a cloth outer. It feels solid, but i get annoyed for eg if they're rolled up and you try to unroll it, and it just stays kinked and refuses to unravel. quite possibly the worst cable ergonomics wise that i've used...

ZMF VC, my set were finished to perfection. lovely wood choice for this limited run, with amazing grain. Zero creaking. Everything feels solid to touch and there is a nice heft to the headphones when holding them. One thing i dont really like is that the cups can spin around full circle, like Grados.

The Stellia is lighter and feels more comfortable on the head. There is a bit of a clamping sensation with the VC especially just below the ear. Perhaps i will need to stretch the headband a bit more. I do not feel any hotspots or clamping with the Stellia.
There is a sensation of more "space" in the cups with the Stellia. The VC feel more "closed in".
My ears and side of face get warm and a bit sweaty quite fast with the VC leather pads. I stay near the equator, so listening in a non-airconditioned room is almost impossible. It feels less uncomfortable with the Stellia pads.

Stellia feels like a premium continental car from Mercedes/BMW. It exudes the sensation of a product with consistent build, from a quality manufacturing line, with precision execution.
ZMF VC feels like an artisan piece from a master craftsman. You can almost feel the hours of dedication and handwork that has gone into shaping and finishing the cups and assembling all the pieces together.


SOUND
With regards to sound, i found it surprising that the VC and Stellia were like polar opposites. to me, they share very very very few similarities soundwise.

VC sound fuller/thicker all round. there is music filling all the spaces. The VC sounds more relaxed and warm.
in contrast, the Stellia has more "air", more apparent instrument separation. you can feel the space in between the notes and elements of the music.
Stellia imaging has pinpoint accuracy. the Stellia sound like a "faster" headphone.
VC soundstage is wider than Stellia. not ultra wide, but wide enough. not as wide as say, Empyrean. nonetheless, very impressed with the soundstage on the VC, especially given the closed configuration.

the VC has much more bass and mid bass than Stellia. It has good low end extension and decent sub-bass; a bit more sub-bass and low rumble would be nice; hoping this will improve further with more play time.
aside from the amount of bass, the bass impact/ear drum thumping sensation is also stronger and more focused with VC than Stellia.
Stellia bass is tight, but is severely lacking in amount. I did not get an enjoyable low end from the Stellia from both my systems. you know how when you play songs that you know have this super cool bass line that comes up, but when that bass line finally starts to play, with the Stellia i was thinking, hey where the heck is the bass? The bass notes are there, but they just sound like tap tap tap.. i was rather disappointed.

VC highs were harsh at first listen, but after burning in, the highs are much better. In comparison to the Stellia, the VC details are still there but the highs do sound rolled off.
The Stellia is great if you enjoy ultra-detail. It feels like you can hear lip smacking and the pieces of left over meat between the teeth rubbing on the singers gums kind of detail. However, Stellia feels too skewed to upper mids and highs. To me, the upper mids and highs are too exaggerated. Almost like there is an intense sharpening filter applied to the upper bands. It sounds glaring and too bright with the single ended cable, but is slightly improved with the balanced cable. There is tonnes of clarity and detail (even more so than Utopia), but to me, it is a bit too much. I can imagine getting fatigued fast, and this is further worsened by the comparative lack in bass and mid bass. Stellia presentation in effect, becomes much more forward and in your face.
although slightly rolled off in the high end, i prefer the VC presentation over the Stellia.

VC to me has a more balanced presentation. VC mids are thick and luscious. There is more "body" in the VC mids than Stellia mids. Female vocals sound amazing with the VC.

VC isolates better than the Stellia. i can hear my screaming kids less with the VC than Stellia. this is a good thing.

The VC sounded much much better with my Woo Audio 22 than the HPA4. The sound i get feels more natural, flowing, and organic. the soundstage feels wider and surprisingly, the highs felt clearer and more distinct; i was expecting the highs to be dulled but i was wrong. For what it's worth, it sounds more "musical". The tubes took whatever the VC had and made them sound better. If you have the VC with a solid state amp, i think you owe it to yourself to try it with a good tube amp.
The Stellia sounded slightly better with the WA22 and there was a slight increase in amount of bass, but really not much. WA22 didnt do much else for the sound with Stellia.
Neither Stellia or VC sounded all that great with my GSX Mini... the mini + VC sounded bloated; the bass lost its punchiness and the highs were even less detailed. mini + Stellia sounded slightly less forward and highs were tamed, but it did nothing for the bass. i find the GSX mini is quite finicky with headphones.. i dont like mini + Empy, but i do like mini + Utopia and mini + Abyss 1266.


TL/DR
in my opinion:
Stellia has crazy amounts of clarity, detail, and airiness, with a much more forward presentation. The highs feel overpowering; not so good if you are sensitive to treble. Feels like a faster headphone with pinpoint accuracy and a sense of immediacy. Stellia is lacking in bass and mid bass.
ZMF VC has a more balanced presentation. Has much more bass/mid bass than Stellia, with luscious thick mids, and a certain richness to the sound. VC is more relaxed in comparison. Highs are a little rolled off. Comparatively less air/space and clarity. VC sounds better with a tube amp.
With the Stellia it felt like i was analyzing music, with the VC i was enjoying it.


additional notes:
Stellia is not a closed back Utopia. Utopia remains detailed without being harsh/bright. Utopia soundstage is wider. Utopia feels more effortless and transparent. Overall better balanced presentation. Utopia has much better bass than Stellia.
after selling my previous monkeypod VC, I was close to buying a Stellia; deal did not go through because of exorbitant delivery fees. after having some time with the Stellia and VC, i'm relieved that i decided to go with VC again.
i experienced an echoey reverb sensation with monkeypod VC. thankfully, i do not hear this with leopardwood.
ultimately the VC and Stellia are closed back headphones and they are great choices if you need a closed config in your setup eg in the office or late night listening without wanting to disturb anyone else. but i get a better overall sound with open backed headphones like the empy, utopia, abyss 1266 tc phi.
Good comparison. I find it interesting that you find the GSX mini warmer than the WA22? Seeing that you like the pairing of the mini with your more neutral to brighter HP’s and the WA22 with the warmer cans.
 
Apr 17, 2020 at 6:24 PM Post #2,540 of 12,598
Nice review Roasty! Although I'm looking forward to getting my VC, I don't expect to like them quite as much as my VO. I'm buying the VC to have a closed headphone for times when my family is being rambunctiously loud. Also, I've been told by owners that have the VO and VC that one or the other perform better for different genres. Like you, I really like the Utopia but it wasn't until I got my Auris Nirvana amp that I fully appreciated them. Some SS amps and the Utopia sound lean and metallic, I don't get that at all from my tube amp. My Nirvana really opened up the soundstage of the Utopia as well. I found that when I select 80 ohms on my Nirvana's selectable impedance, the SQ of the Utopia took a big step up in fullness and warmth without losing the great speed and details that the headphone is known for.

Regarding your review, I wonder if the VC is fully broken in? I know that Zach recommended a minimum of 150hrs but also said that some reported improvements up to 300hrs. With my VO, I found the latter to be true. Thanks for taking the time to compare the VC to the Stellia. Based on your description, I think I made the right choice for a closed headphone for my preferences.

PS, it must be nice to live near the equator. As I write this, it's snowing heavily this morning in Michigan.

The Utopia + tube is a great combo! I enjoy it with my wa22 too. Utopia is really an amazing headphone. I find it somewhat odd that some people say it lacks bass, when it really doesn't. The Stellia to me had a good amount less bass than the Utopia.

I agree that my VC are probably not fully broken in yet. Unfortunately I only have the Stellia for this week, so I had to make the comparisons prematurely. Perhaps I can revisit this topic again if the shop allows me a second loan period.

Living at the equator has its upsides.. I get to enjoy the sun and warmth when I want to, and just turn on the air conditioning when I need to. But sometimes, it just gets way too hot, and the humidity is the real annoyance...


Good comparison. I find it interesting that you find the GSX mini warmer than the WA22? Seeing that you like the pairing of the mini with your more neutral to brighter HP’s and the WA22 with the warmer cans.

I just had another listen with the mini, and I'm thinking it is not so warm, rather it is sounding like it rolls off the highs more than the wa22. Also, I do get less bass impact with the mini. Mid range is still good. But truth be told, I'm thinking if I should have gone with the gsx mk2, and I'm also mulling over replacing it with a formula/powerman combo.
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 1:35 AM Post #2,541 of 12,598
sorry everyone! i have to retract my review for the meantime.

reason for doing so:
after posting the comparison, i was still extremely perplexed about the severe lack of bass with the Stellia. I went to read the Stellia thread and people there seem to think the bass is great for those cans.
i listened with the Stellia again today, and decided to try and use my hands to gently press onto the ear cups inwards.
lo and behold, the bass and mid bass suddenly appeared.
maybe my head is too small and my ears are too "far" from the drivers, or head is too small and the earpads are not compressed enough.
but with my hands gently pushing the cups inwards, the bass/mid bass which i felt was missing become suddenly apparent. it resulted in a much better overall sound.

so for the meantime, my comparison will be taken down. apologies!
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 9:15 AM Post #2,542 of 12,598
sorry everyone! i have to retract my review for the meantime.

reason for doing so:
after posting the comparison, i was still extremely perplexed about the severe lack of bass with the Stellia. I went to read the Stellia thread and people there seem to think the bass is great for those cans.
i listened with the Stellia again today, and decided to try and use my hands to gently press onto the ear cups inwards.
lo and behold, the bass and mid bass suddenly appeared.
maybe my head is too small and my ears are too "far" from the drivers, or head is too small and the earpads are not compressed enough.
but with my hands gently pushing the cups inwards, the bass/mid bass which i felt was missing become suddenly apparent. it resulted in a much better overall sound.

so for the meantime, my comparison will be taken down. apologies!
I was going to say the Stellia has the best bass of the Focals, definitely more than the Utopia which is known to have less bass. Also, one thing to mention is compared to the VC I hear that Focal metallic top end, which for me throws the timbre off, but not so on the VC, which sounds more natural.
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 10:48 AM Post #2,543 of 12,598
I was going to say the Stellia has the best bass of the Focals, definitely more than the Utopia which is known to have less bass. Also, one thing to mention is compared to the VC I hear that Focal metallic top end, which for me throws the timbre off, but not so on the VC, which sounds more natural.
I agree that Focal Utopia can have a metallic top end in some systems that I’ve heard as I mentioned in my previous post. It will exhibit that in systems that are not well matched for the Utopia. In my system, there is not a trace of this characteristic. The Utopia driven by my Auris Nirvana with a Brimar CV4003 driver tube is the most non-fatiguing and musically full sound that I’ve experienced from this headphone. I’ve heard the Utopia with several amps including the WA33 (also very good) and the HA300. The Utopia is definitely more difficult to get right than my ZMF Verite open. In my system, I easily preferred the Utopia timbre to the HEK SE and that is reason why I recently sold the SE.

Back on topic, what pads are you using on the VC? Since you seem to like the VC and VO, you owe to yourself to get a tube amp to maximize their potential.
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 11:00 AM Post #2,544 of 12,598
It has taken me quite sometime to get here, but I am inching closer and closer to joining the club.
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Post #2,545 of 12,598
It has taken me quite sometime to get here, but I am inching closer and closer to joining the club.

I was wondering if you were going to get a VC after listing your Atticus :D
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 12:06 PM Post #2,546 of 12,598
I agree that Focal Utopia can have a metallic top end in some systems that I’ve heard as I mentioned in my previous post. It will exhibit that in systems that are not well matched for the Utopia. In my system, there is not a trace of this characteristic. The Utopia driven by my Auris Nirvana with a Brimar CV4003 driver tube is the most non-fatiguing and musically full sound that I’ve experienced from this headphone. I’ve heard the Utopia with several amps including the WA33 (also very good) and the HA300. The Utopia is definitely more difficult to get right than my ZMF Verite open. In my system, I easily preferred the Utopia timbre to the HEK SE and that is reason why I recently sold the SE.

Back on topic, what pads are you using on the VC? Since you seem to like the VC and VO, you owe to yourself to get a tube amp to maximize their potential.
I guess we have to agree to disagree on the Utopia. I think what most owners do in order to cope with them is to mellow them out by slightly masking that top end usually with tubes or warmer SS amps. That's coupled with the fact that they don't really have much off a soundstage either. Try as I might I just cannot get into them and have heard them many times.

Now for my ZMF's, yes I would like to get a tube of some sort. I tried the LP but didn't think it was any better than the THX 789. I would like a GOTL, but I would have to have another amp for my planars. I would like a Pendant too, but not sure I want to spend quite that much right now on an amp. Unfortunately I don't have too much room on my desk for a lot of amps either. Maybe a used WA22 soon although I have been told to stay away unless I really want to get sucked into the expensive habit of tube rolling for this amp.
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 1:02 PM Post #2,548 of 12,598
I guess we have to agree to disagree on the Utopia. I think what most owners do in order to cope with them is to mellow them out by slightly masking that top end usually with tubes or warmer SS amps. That's coupled with the fact that they don't really have much off a soundstage either. Try as I might I just cannot get into them and have heard them many times.

Now for my ZMF's, yes I would like to get a tube of some sort. I tried the LP but didn't think it was any better than the THX 789. I would like a GOTL, but I would have to have another amp for my planars. I would like a Pendant too, but not sure I want to spend quite that much right now on an amp. Unfortunately I don't have too much room on my desk for a lot of amps either. Maybe a used WA22 soon although I have been told to stay away unless I really want to get sucked into the expensive habit of tube rolling for this amp.
I really like my Auris Nirvana. At 6.5 w/ch it’ll drive most headphones including the Susvara. It wasn’t costly or time consuming to tube roll. I spent $80 to roll in the Brimar CV4003 driver tube and there’s really no need to roll the two EL34. The WA22 is nice but you’ll spend the additional cost I paid for Nirvana in tubes for the it. The Nirvana is much more powerful than the WA22. The downside of the Nirvana for you is that it’s not compact. This amp does look nice next to a woody ZMF. 🙂

1587229019651.jpeg
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 2:44 PM Post #2,549 of 12,598
I was going to say the Stellia has the best bass of the Focals, definitely more than the Utopia which is known to have less bass. Also, one thing to mention is compared to the VC I hear that Focal metallic top end, which for me throws the timbre off, but not so on the VC, which sounds more natural.
I noted this in my VC review as well.
It has taken me quite sometime to get here, but I am inching closer and closer to joining the club.
I often wonder whats taking Glenn owners so long to grab the VC. The combo is end game IMO. Looking forward to your thoughts once you join the club.
 
Apr 18, 2020 at 3:03 PM Post #2,550 of 12,598
I really like my Auris Nirvana. At 6.5 w/ch it’ll drive most headphones including the Susvara. It wasn’t costly or time consuming to tube roll. I spent $80 to roll in the Brimar CV4003 driver tube and there’s really no need to roll the two EL34. The WA22 is nice but you’ll spend the additional cost I paid for Nirvana in tubes for the it. The Nirvana is much more powerful than the WA22. The downside of the Nirvana for you is that it’s not compact. This amp does look nice next to a woody ZMF. 🙂

1587229019651.jpeg
No, the downside is that it’s $5,700!!! That’s twice the price of the WA22. If I were to shop in that range, which I am not, I would also consider moving up in price to the WA33, which I know is good.

I noted this in my VC review as well.

I often wonder whats taking Glenn owners so long to grab the VC. The combo is end game IMO. Looking forward to your thoughts once you join the club.
Yes this combo is. I have heard this combo and it is outstanding. I would pref to buy the GOTL or Glenn’s top amp and a better DAC over the Auris alone.
 

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