[Zojokkeli]

Been lurking both here and in the VO thread for sometime, trying to make my mind up about which is the better pair for me based on reviews and opinions. It's been a great read and very informative, but my question isn't specifically to do with the headphones themselves - rather the environment in which you listen to them.

I know that for many, the VC is preferable due to the necessity of no leakage for other people to hear - however also because there are too many audible distractions that would ruin the listening experience with open backs. My question is, what would you define as a 'good' room/location for music listening, that wouldn't require closed backs?

I live in a two bedroom flat, and my room for listening has no fans or other machinery, and the only noise is likely to be from the cat; there might be the occasional door closing in another flat and perhaps some minimal traffic noise from outside - but nothing more than that. Would the hivemind feel that was a reasonable place for open backs, or is anything short of a soundproof mancave, with no entrance for children, animals or sound a requirement for closed backs?

I realise this is subjective, but am interested in people's thoughts, especially as much of this thread has contained people's opinions that they need the VC due to external noise.

R

If you live alone, get whatever headphones you fancy. If you live with other people, and you don’t have a dedicated mancave where your presence and/or activities won’t bother said other people, closed back headphones will probably be better choice.

 

[erics75]

Been lurking both here and in the VO thread for sometime, trying to make my mind up about which is the better pair for me based on reviews and opinions. It's been a great read and very informative, but my question isn't specifically to do with the headphones themselves - rather the environment in which you listen to them.

I know that for many, the VC is preferable due to the necessity of no leakage for other people to hear - however also because there are too many audible distractions that would ruin the listening experience with open backs. My question is, what would you define as a 'good' room/location for music listening, that wouldn't require closed backs?

I live in a two bedroom flat, and my room for listening has no fans or other machinery, and the only noise is likely to be from the cat; there might be the occasional door closing in another flat and perhaps some minimal traffic noise from outside - but nothing more than that. Would the hivemind feel that was a reasonable place for open backs, or is anything short of a soundproof mancave, with no entrance for children, animals or sound a requirement for closed backs?

I realise this is subjective, but am interested in people's thoughts, especially as much of this thread has contained people's opinions that they need the VC due to external noise.

R

unless you listen at very very low volume, some minimal ambient noise would be fine, and likely undetectable. i listen semi-loud (80-85db), and even with a small fan going and traffic, i don't notice the noise when using open headphones. everyone is different, of course, but in general what you described should be fine for open backs. i will say this though, the VC is so open sounding, you pay no penalty for it being closed. it's easily as open sounding as the Auteur and HD650 i also own. the one benefit of open headphones is temperature. closed headphones can get a bit toasty after awhile. another thing to consider is this, it's safer to have a closed headphone and not need closed, vs having an open headphone and find you need a closed....just my cautious nature, but worth a thought. but directly to your main concern, some background noise should be fine, i wouldn't sweat it.

EDIT - and of course as others have pointed out, if you live with other people that might be annoyed by your headphones, closed would be preferred. when i really rock out with the Auteur, they can be heard downstairs, when i'm upstairs in my room with the door closed.... and yeah i'll be deaf by 50!

 

[RMarks271]

I think given your description that either would be fine for you,and you should choose based upon the sound that you prefer.

Thanks MZ, I agree - I have a couple of open backs already, I was just quite interested in what others thought about a suitable 'open back environment'.

 

[RMarks271]

If you live alone, get whatever headphones you fancy. If you live with other people, and you don’t have a dedicated mancave where your presence and/or activities won’t bother said other people, closed back headphones will probably be better choice.

Fortunately, my wife is quite tolerant of noise/music, and our walls and doors insulate fairly well, so although I'm not leading the bachelor life, that isn't such an issue for me.

 

[RMarks271]

unless you listen at very very low volume, some minimal ambient noise would be fine, and likely undetectable. i listen semi-loud (80-85db), and even with a small fan going and traffic, i don't notice the noise when using open headphones. everyone is different, of course, but in general what you described should be fine for open backs. i will say this though, the VC is so open sounding, you pay no penalty for it being closed. it's easily as open sounding as the Auteur and HD650 i also own. the one benefit of open headphones is temperature. closed headphones can get a bit toasty after awhile. another thing to consider is this, it's safer to have a closed headphone and not need closed, vs having an open headphone and find you need a closed....just my cautious nature, but worth a thought. but directly to your main concern, some background noise should be fine, i wouldn't sweat it.

EDIT - and of course as others have pointed out, if you live with other people that might be annoyed by your headphones, closed would be preferred. when i really rock out with the Auteur, they can be heard downstairs, when i'm upstairs in my room with the door closed.... and yeah i'll be deaf by 50!

Thanks Eric - to be honest what you've said is pretty much my experience already with my HD600, and from medium volume and up, all sounds are like you undetectable. I was just interested in what others thought.

For me, the main drawback of closed backs is simply that slightly more claustrophobic feeling; likely as not it's largely placebo as once the cans are on your ears, the weight and shape of them play more a factor in their feeling than whether they are open or closed, but there you go. I'm almost completely sold on the VO, but from what you and others have said, the VC is a remarkable feat of engineering in that it sounds almost exactly like an open back.

 

[Klmahnn]

Been lurking both here and in the VO thread for sometime, trying to make my mind up about which is the better pair for me based on reviews and opinions. It's been a great read and very informative, but my question isn't specifically to do with the headphones themselves - rather the environment in which you listen to them.

I know that for many, the VC is preferable due to the necessity of no leakage for other people to hear - however also because there are too many audible distractions that would ruin the listening experience with open backs. My question is, what would you define as a 'good' room/location for music listening, that wouldn't require closed backs?

I live in a two bedroom flat, and my room for listening has no fans or other machinery, and the only noise is likely to be from the cat; there might be the occasional door closing in another flat and perhaps some minimal traffic noise from outside - but nothing more than that. Would the hivemind feel that was a reasonable place for open backs, or is anything short of a soundproof mancave, with no entrance for children, animals or sound a requirement for closed backs?

I realise this is subjective, but am interested in people's thoughts, especially as much of this thread has contained people's opinions that they need the VC due to external noise.

R

I personally HATE being able to hear anything while listening to music. It completely kills the experience for me. So while I probably prefer the ventilation aspect of open cans, closed headphones better serve the purpose of shutting out the world for me. I would not tolerate any traffic noise, stomping above my head, hearing people pass by etc etc. If I would have to moderate my usage out of consideration of people living with me, open backs would be out of the question.

Also, while I haven't heard the VO, I believe it wouldn't be dissimilar to the Aeolus in that it wouldn't feel super airy like an HD800. ZMF open backs are more semi-open in that they don't leak much or allow as much noise in as most other open backs. Aesthetically, I generally find the VO's more appealing (more holes and the grill pattern!) so that may or may not be a factor for you. It seems that in your situation you're probably safe to opt for the VO.

 

[Klmahnn]

Just trying out the Universe pads now. Pad swap was ridiculously easy but I would highly recommend watching Zach's video on how to do it to save yourself any hassle. The inverting sock trick is key!

Anyway, Universe pads give a very noticeable bass boost and make everything sound a bit more closed in and intense. I find them a little bit more comfortable just because they're a little thinner and so there's slightly less clamp (this is irrelevant if you adjust the headband to compensate). I don't have a strong preference for either at the moment, maybe the Auteurs but for now I'm going to enjoy the added bass In future I imagine using the Auteurs for the extra soundstage and just EQing in bass where I feel like it.

 

[erics75]

Thanks Eric - to be honest what you've said is pretty much my experience already with my HD600, and from medium volume and up, all sounds are like you undetectable. I was just interested in what others thought.

For me, the main drawback of closed backs is simply that slightly more claustrophobic feeling; likely as not it's largely placebo as once the cans are on your ears, the weight and shape of them play more a factor in their feeling than whether they are open or closed, but there you go. I'm almost completely sold on the VO, but from what you and others have said, the VC is a remarkable feat of engineering in that it sounds almost exactly like an open back.

the VC is remarkably similar to the VO in terms of soundstage. they do have a very slight tonal difference though, so that's worth researching more, if you haven't yet. i dont have enough time with the VO to write anything meaningful, unfortunately.

 

[erics75]

I personally HATE being able to hear anything while listening to music. It completely kills the experience for me. So while I probably prefer the ventilation aspect of open cans, closed headphones better serve the purpose of shutting out the world for me. I would not tolerate any traffic noise, stomping above my head, hearing people pass by etc etc. If I would have to moderate my usage out of consideration of people living with me, open backs would be out of the question.

Also, while I haven't heard the VO, I believe it wouldn't be dissimilar to the Aeolus in that it wouldn't feel super airy like an HD800. ZMF open backs are more semi-open in that they don't leak much or allow as much noise in as most other open backs. Aesthetically, I generally find the VO's more appealing (more holes and the grill pattern!) so that may or may not be a factor for you. It seems that in your situation you're probably safe to opt for the VO.

i do love that grill on the VO, it's a stunning design. i really liked the ZMF logo Zach had on his preproduction models. i wish that had carried over to the production grills.

 

[Marutks]

Would the hivemind feel that was a reasonable place for open backs

It should be fine for VO. I have got VC only for noisy office environment.

 

[RMarks271]

Thanks all for your replies - pretty certain in the new year I'll be placing an order for the VOs - they're among the best looking phones I've ever seen and sound-wise seem to be everything I've been searching for.

 

[erics75]

After 3 weeks with the auteur pads, i finally mounted the universe pads for a proper listen. i had given them an hour or so early on but didn't know the headphone well enough to make any sense of the changes. this time was much more beneficial. tl/dr i prefer the universe pads.

i find the universe pads more engaging. what i'm hearing is a small constriction of the soundstage, with a mild warming, especially in the mids. also, everything sounds more forward, which i love. i actually prefer the slightly more forward soundstage. at times i felt the stage with the auteur pads was a bit too far back. it lacked immediacy.

i've heard the VC with auteur pads described as W shaped in regards to frequency response. i'd have to concur after listening to the universe pads. the VC with universe pads honestly sounds quite similar to the Auteur, to me. deep subbass, warm and forward mids, with very very slightly elevated midbass, and tremendous treble extension, without being strident. i do think the VC can get a touch shouty at times with really bad recordings, but i can't complain there, the stuff i'm finding strident is really crappy metal recordings that would probably be strident on the hd650 at low volume....

for those VC owners who've only used the auteur pads, and felt it lacked a bit of engagement or forwardness, try the universe pads. yesterday i had the auteur (headphone) at work instead of the VC, and i was reminded how much i love that headphone. it's more forward staging, along with it's wonderful mids, really engage me. i just love how energizing it is. that engagement i've been feeling was lacking on the VC. not anymore, not with the universe pads. i finally feel fully engaged with the VC, energized by it's performance. kind of like a concert, the closer you get to the stage, the more fun it is...until the big dude with no self control wipes you out in the pit! i'm struggling to put into words what i'm hearing, but hopefully you get the idea.

as for the soundstage shrinkage (don't we all just hate shrinkage???), i'm fine with it. i still think the VC with universe pads sounds as open as the auteur (headphone) and hd650. i have the hybrid pads on order, can't wait to give those a go.

 

[bryceu]

unless you listen at very very low volume, some minimal ambient noise would be fine, and likely undetectable. i listen semi-loud (80-85db), and even with a small fan going and traffic, i don't notice the noise when using open headphones. everyone is different, of course, but in general what you described should be fine for open backs. i will say this though, the VC is so open sounding, you pay no penalty for it being closed. it's easily as open sounding as the Auteur and HD650 i also own. the one benefit of open headphones is temperature. closed headphones can get a bit toasty after awhile. another thing to consider is this, it's safer to have a closed headphone and not need closed, vs having an open headphone and find you need a closed....just my cautious nature, but worth a thought. but directly to your main concern, some background noise should be fine, i wouldn't sweat it.

EDIT - and of course as others have pointed out, if you live with other people that might be annoyed by your headphones, closed would be preferred. when i really rock out with the Auteur, they can be heard downstairs, when i'm upstairs in my room with the door closed.... and yeah i'll be deaf by 50!

Sounds like some good rock out.

Thanks all for your replies - pretty certain in the new year I'll be placing an order for the VOs - they're among the best looking phones I've ever seen and sound-wise seem to be everything I've been searching for.

I think you'll be stoked with either Verite

 

[Klmahnn]

After 3 weeks with the auteur pads, i finally mounted the universe pads for a proper listen. i had given them an hour or so early on but didn't know the headphone well enough to make any sense of the changes. this time was much more beneficial. tl/dr i prefer the universe pads.

i find the universe pads more engaging. what i'm hearing is a small constriction of the soundstage, with a mild warming, especially in the mids. also, everything sounds more forward, which i love. i actually prefer the slightly more forward soundstage. at times i felt the stage with the auteur pads was a bit too far back. it lacked immediacy.

i've heard the VC with auteur pads described as W shaped in regards to frequency response. i'd have to concur after listening to the universe pads. the VC with universe pads honestly sounds quite similar to the Auteur, to me. deep subbass, warm and forward mids, with very very slightly elevated midbass, and tremendous treble extension, without being strident. i do think the VC can get a touch shouty at times with really bad recordings, but i can't complain there, the stuff i'm finding strident is really crappy metal recordings that would probably be strident on the hd650 at low volume....

for those VC owners who've only used the auteur pads, and felt it lacked a bit of engagement or forwardness, try the universe pads. yesterday i had the auteur (headphone) at work instead of the VC, and i was reminded how much i love that headphone. it's more forward staging, along with it's wonderful mids, really engage me. i just love how energizing it is. that engagement i've been feeling was lacking on the VC. not anymore, not with the universe pads. i finally feel fully engaged with the VC, energized by it's performance. kind of like a concert, the closer you get to the stage, the more fun it is...until the big dude with no self control wipes you out in the pit! i'm struggling to put into words what i'm hearing, but hopefully you get the idea.

as for the soundstage shrinkage (don't we all just hate shrinkage???), i'm fine with it. i still think the VC with universe pads sounds as open as the auteur (headphone) and hd650. i have the hybrid pads on order, can't wait to give those a go.

Pretty much 100% agree with this!

 

[zach915m]

As a note - we have universe hybrid with both perf and non perf for both versions of the Verite. I'll have them in the site shortly.